MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #3

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Here's another thought. We've discussed the struggle point near the light post. And I said perhaps Jacob tried to run at that place and he was shot and killed. Then that idea was somewhat dismissed because people said there would have been a lot of blood evidence at the spot.

But what if the perp. was carrying him through the woods or fields and at that point he broke free and ran, the perp. shooting him, this being way further into the property?
 
Here's another thought. We've discussed the struggle point near the light post. And I said perhaps Jacob tried to run at that place and he was killed. Then that idea was somewhat dismissed because people said there would have been a lot of blood evidence at the spot.

But what if the perp. was carrying him through the woods or fields and at that point he broke free and ran, the perp. shooting him, this being way further into the property?

I've been advised by Trino that the sock was dismissed -- as it did not belong to Jacob. However, I do not know which means were used to eliminate it as belonging to Jacob? I would HOPE that LE have long since tested that sock for DNA evidence to determine if it was Jacob's or someone else's. I would further hope they've kept it, and run any DNA through their databases in case of a match (perhaps for some reason it belonged to the perp -- ie: maybe the perp carried a bag, or had stuffed it in a pocket in case gagging was its intended use?).

Blood -- what if he really was harmed or murdered (I'm sorry to any family or friends of Jacob's who may be reading this -- I really am! I mean no disrespect, and do not mean to be insincere. What I'm about to say though hard to read I'm sure is something you've already possibly considered yourselves -- but if its hard to read consider this a warning... and please skip the rest of this post!).


BLOOD:
- > what if Jacob's neck was broken at the scene for some reason? Broken necks don't leave blood everywhere.
- > perhaps he was drugged and expired somewhere along the escape route, and the perp took him away limp in his arms, on a horse... in a car or whichever means he used to get out of the immediate area. From the time he took Jacob (9:15pm -- he had ample time from when the other two kids ran home (10 - 15 minutes to run that distance was an estimate in an earlier thread). They would then need a few minutes to tell the sitter what happened (add a minute at the least). She then called her dad (add another minute). That girl's dad then called the Wetterling's parents (add two or three minutes)... and then police were called. These are rough guesses. Thats a long time to be able to get away with Jacob.

- > With that said though, I'd read an article recently that police were on scene within 7 minutes of being called by the girl's father (I understand Concentric that you noted 5 minutes above, but I've read 7).

-> The police seem to have gone FIRST to the Wetterling's home, then had the boys SHOW them where Jacob was taken from. How long did it take them to get information from the boys at the house before they were out in the area searching??

-> Realistically, if my numbers above, and my facts regarding the sequence of events are accurate, even within one to five minutes ahead or behind... the perp had:

about 27-30 minutes to do whatever he was going to do with Jacob without being detected. Thats an eternity!!

Pls keep in mind perp MAY have known how much time he would roughly have before help arrived for Jacob, but he may not -- so he was moving quickly, and assuredly. We know he had a gun in hand, and a mask on face - so he was prepared for some sort of nefarious event that night. We don't know where he was going, or what he planned to do with / to Jacob. But if he had 27-30 minutes to subdue Jacob and flee the scene, he could easily have been LONG gone before police arrived at the DR farm. In that time, he could have drugged Jacob, hurt him, assaulted him, shaved his head, given him a different set of clothes to wear, and changed vehicles (if he used one). Thats dismal -- Poor Jacob!!
 
I was thinking about the screaming part.

We don't know if he screamed or not.

And we know that the perp said that he had a gun. That should keep Jacob quiet. Scream and I will shoot.

Can someone please explain to me why there would be a perp hiding in the woods on this lonely road on the off chance some kids went by?
 
Margaret Diane, do you have a link to the fact that the sock meant nothing?

I have not read that anywhere.

Maybe Trino can chime in on where that info came from.
 
Margaret Diane, do you have a link to the fact that the sock meant nothing?

I have not read that anywhere.

Maybe Trino can chime in on where that info came from.

I gave a link a few posts back. Check it out.

As to using a horse, this is farm country, not the West. Not many people around St. Joe's had (or have) horses - sort of a surburban/rural area. The farmers are mostly corn and soybean farmers, with a few cattle. A horse would stand out like a sore thumb.
 
Margaret Diane, do you have a link to the fact that the sock meant nothing?

I have not read that anywhere.

Maybe Trino can chime in on where that info came from.

I'm searching through a link that was provided to me by Trino right now, however, as yet, I have not found any mention that the sock was ruled NOT to belong to Jacob, OR that it was NOT in any way involved in the abduction... I'll post the link if I find that reference....

Trino - I think I read that entire link that you earlier provided for me -- and I cannot find any information therein at all regarding the sock! I think I must need a stronger coffee because I am just not finding one at all, let alone one to suggest it was ruled out and excluded as evidence! A little help here pls? Can you pls and thank you in advance post the link, again, and guide me straight to it? I'm obviously blind as a bat in addition to exhausted! Thanks again.

The ONLY reference to a sweatsock having been found at all in the vicinity that I have ever seen (so far!) is here:
http://www.globegazette.com/article_2b0e6832-84d0-11df-85ff-001cc4c03286.html

To save you all reading it through -- the specific quote is as follows:
"Oct. 28, 1989: About 240 Guard members, volunteers and officers scour several square miles around the abduction site while three helicopters conduct an air search. A white sweat sock is found about 100 yards from the site, but a Minneapolis bloodhound can’t track its scent farther than a nearby road."

I'm still hunting other sources which might help clarify and confirm when and how this was ruled out and excluded.
 
Per your post above, margaretdiane:

(I understand Concentric that you noted 5 minutes above, but I've read 7).
------------------

I'm not the one who said it was 5 minutes. Just FYI
------------------

I've posted that it seemed the perp. felt he had ample time to set up an ambush, but was in a hurry to get out of there.

Next, I posted that even though he was in a hurry to get out of there, he had ample time to get out of there because of the time it took for the boys to get home, notify authorities/parents, etc.
 
Per your post above, margaretdiane:

(I understand Concentric that you noted 5 minutes above, but I've read 7).
------------------

I'm not the one who said it was 5 minutes. Just FYI
------------------

I've posted that it seemed the perp. felt he had ample time to set up an ambush, but was in a hurry to get out of there.

Next, I posted that even though he was in a hurry to get out of there, he had ample time to get out of there because of the time it took for the boys to get home, notify authorities/parents, etc.

My apologies Concentric, I had thought that I read a post that was yours earlier citing the 5 minutes... if I was mistaken, then I am sorry. :truce: In reading backwards -- I have discovered that it was this post where I found the reference to the five minutes....
does anyone know if the driveway had ditches on the side by the trees? If not, a car could drive down by the trees and park next to it. But the police said they were on the scene 5 mins after the call. It would have taken the boys about 10 or 15 mins to run to the Wetterling's house. That gave the perp about 20 mins to get away. But the kids turned around after a few mins of running and they were gone. I think a car near the woods or DR's place are the most plausible explanations. I still think DR had some involvement if he wasn't the exact person who took him.

See? I knew I'd read it some place! Again, sorry about that! :)
 
NEW IDEAS:
- > What if.... what if someone at the party the Wetterlings attended overheard (or was told by the parents) that JW and his brother and friend were going to be riding their bikes to rent a video that evening? Did anyone leave that party early? Did anyone make a phone call from the party to anyone else in the area, and tip off our perp (any perp) that the kids would be at such and such a place at such and such a time? Did someone knowingly or unknowingly (in idle conversation) set these kids up as sitting ducks?
- > I'd like to know if LE ever checked the guests from the party to see who was there, who left early, and the phone records of calls made OUT of that residence that evening? that might (have) been a very interesting way to go with endless possibilities for suspects, or those assisting (knowingly or not) a suspect. Were party guests interviewed regarding who they talked to during the party and about what??

IDEA TWO:
- > Is it POSSIBLE that the Wetterling's telephone line was somehow bugged in the days / weeks / hours prior to abduction? Could Someone have been listening in and known where the kids were going to be at which time that night? I read an article recently wherein Patty noted that she was mad at Jerry for a long time for letting the boys go, but then realized they didn't know whether it would have happened anyhow, even if the kids had been IN the house at that time. She implied (in my view) her family / the kids could have been stalked.

IDEA THREE:
- > what if Aaron was the intended target? What if someone was watching HIM or HIS family? Did his family have anyone in their lives to be concerned about? Was there anyone we should be concerned about from HIS life? Just a thought.

Have to go, having a movie night with my family tonight, but just thought I'd post my ideas out there for debate. Thanks in advance for considering them, no matter how crazy they might seem -- stranger things can and have happened.
 
... I just don't understand why the abductor would go down the driveway, it makes no sense.

Maybe Jacob got loose and was running up the driveway for help and the kidnapper caught up with him and took him back down the driveway and out of the area.
 
How do you know that he didn't? He might have! He could have been silenced off the cuff with something (tape over mouth? A gag? A hand? A drug? A threat of death to himself, his brother or his friends or family?). How do you know that he never screamed?

I agree. An abductor would have thought of the potential screaming and/or squirming in advance and brought a rag soaked in chloroform or a cloth bag to put over the boy's head. Being the mother of three boys, I can tell you that even a 2-year-old who is squirming, letting his body go limp, or otherwise resisting being picked up, would be extremely difficult to carry anywhere!
 
I'm searching through a link that was provided to me by Trino right now, however, as yet, I have not found any mention that the sock was ruled NOT to belong to Jacob, OR that it was NOT in any way involved in the abduction... I'll post the link if I find that reference....

Trino - I think I read that entire link that you earlier provided for me -- and I cannot find any information therein at all regarding the sock! I think I must need a stronger coffee because I am just not finding one at all, let alone one to suggest it was ruled out and excluded as evidence! A little help here pls? Can you pls and thank you in advance post the link, again, and guide me straight to it? I'm obviously blind as a bat in addition to exhausted! Thanks again.

The ONLY reference to a sweatsock having been found at all in the vicinity that I have ever seen (so far!) is here:
http://www.globegazette.com/article_2b0e6832-84d0-11df-85ff-001cc4c03286.html

To save you all reading it through -- the specific quote is as follows:
"Oct. 28, 1989: About 240 Guard members, volunteers and officers scour several square miles around the abduction site while three helicopters conduct an air search. A white sweat sock is found about 100 yards from the site, but a Minneapolis bloodhound can’t track its scent farther than a nearby road."

I'm still hunting other sources which might help clarify and confirm when and how this was ruled out and excluded.

POST #342 in response to Shergal's post.
http://www.sctimes.com/section/wetterling

LOOK UNDER PHOTO FROM TIMELINE. You need to click the pages (see arrows on right). It's 11 clicks.

"Authorities later ruled out that the sock is related to the abduction."

The idea that Jacob could have been stalked came from J's father and the hockey incident.
 
POST #342 in response to Shergal's post.
http://www.sctimes.com/section/wetterling

The idea that Jacob could have been stalked came from J's father and the hockey incident.

LOOK UNDER PHOTO FROM TIMELINE. You need to click the pages (see arrows on right). It's 11 clicks.

"Authorities later ruled out that the sock is related to the abduction."

Thank you Trino for you extra help on this one -- I now see the reference you were speaking of, and do see that the sock is noted to have been ruled out by LE. I'm curious, do we know HOW it was ruled out? Was it kept, and would it be possible (if they haven't already) to check it for DNA (again if its been done, or as a first if it has not been done?). Who knows what might pop up in their database -- perhaps it might offer more clues now than it did back then? Just a thought.
 
Re: same link. "About this Project"

"The St. Cloud Times staff spent hours going through archive audio, videotape, photos and investigative records..."

This project is from 2009. I think it's fairly up-to-date and accurate.

Also, note the sketches that are all over the web are considered inaccurate.
Check the same site under "Suspect Sketches."
 
So I'm listening to the original 911 call (found in link provided so kindly by Trino above), specifically where Trevor is talking to the 911 operator... and she asks him to describe the man... and he says something.... about how he was wearing a mask... and then the operator says, "he was large?" -- and Trevor pauses and replies, "sort of".

I didn't hear Trevor say that the man was large, it was a bit garbled --
Is there any way that anyone knows of to clean up the audio on this to make it easier to understand? I'm wondering if we use Nero or something on it would it make it easier to hear what Trevor is saying? Has anyone around here got any experience with things like that?
 
Also, interesting to note... 911 operator keeps the caller on the phone (alternating between him and Trevor) for 11 minutes or so before she notes that they should see a squad car outside -- and then the guy who called 911 indicated that he believed the car went to HIS house. The police actually attended the Wetterling residence 12 minutes after the 911 call was initiated. Thats even five more minutes than what I had thought it was. I did notice that the operator got some information about where the abduction took place - so I wonder did a car go to the site, while one attended the Wetterling home?

Either way, by the time the boys got back, explained the story to the babysitter, she called her dad, and HE called the Wetterlings, then 911 -- the perp had AT LEAST 15-20 minutes (or more) to bolt with Jacob. :(
 
http://www.minnesotamonthly.com/med...race/index.php?cparticle=2&siarticle=1#artanc
"Paul Magers, former KARE 11 news anchor: We certainly stayed on top of it. So did the other television stations and radio stations, but I think we worked it as hard or harder than anybody else. At KARE 11, we paid particular attention to what was fact and what wasn’t, because there were a lot of things floating around out there—things we never reported because we couldn’t confirm them."

What didn't they report because they couldn't confirm it!?
 
Maybe Jacob got loose and was running up the driveway for help and the kidnapper caught up with him and took him back down the driveway and out of the area.

You're right, running up the driveway for help I agree would be a very instinctive immediate reaction. I gotta give you a lot of credit for providing that possible explanation.

If the guy was initially heading toward the woods, I would think he would redirect him toward the woods and not down the drive.

The question for me is, which wooded area did the boys see him and Jacob headed towards?
 
I don't think Jacob was running down the driveway trying to escape, I think he was being led because his footprints only started to show heavy resistance by the time they vanished midway down the driveway. Another thing I wonder about are the perps footprints, they must be there also...

Here is a video still of the footprints, where they show resistance at the end.
 
The boxes were for a town festival/parade - something of the sort. They had been stored on the R property. I believe such boxes are still stored there. Still, if LE was on top of the case, they should have been checked.

Trino, are you talking about the stuff taken off the farm this past July?? (Barrels, etc.) That was for the St. Joe 4th of July celebration. What she was asking about were the boxes DR claimed he had in his car and left with the DAY AFTER the abduction that LE never checked, which would have been at the end of October. I don't recall seeing anywhere that these were for a town celebration. Can you find where you saw that if you've seen it online somewhere? Thanks!
 
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