MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

[concentric]

Also, there is a cultural stigma in Minnesota:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_nice

(And, no, I'm not pointing fingers, just something I observed and experienced and from my Social Sciences education.)

 

[concentric]

This is first time I read that Wiki article on Minnesota nice.

It's written by Annette Atkins, a history professor at St. John's University and the College of St. Benedict.

Interesting. I didn't know that.

 

[shergal]

LOL, that's the first time I've heard "Minnesota nice" described as a cultural stigma. IMO, once we Minnesotans get in a car that niceness tends to disappear. I've had other drivers zoom past me giving me the finger for driving the speed limit. And I do not drive slow. ;-)

We had that last name of the Tom Thumb clerk earlier on one of these threads, because when I searched my own comments, I found a post where Margaret Diane expressed surprise that the clerk's last name was the same as the babysitter's and 911 caller's. I couldn't find the post with the actual name though.

 

[Solitary Truth Sleuth]

I noticed on the front page of Websleuths, it talks about the expense of getting documents from the Casey Anthony case. Is it possible to get them from this case, or because no one has been charged it is still a closed investigation. Anyone?

 

[Solitary Truth Sleuth]

I haven't forgotten that Shergal and others have circled back around to the tests on the trunk and umbrella stand numerous times.

If: there is Jacob's DNA on the umbrella stand:

Then: Was he hit in the head with it? Was he tied to it or somehow secured onto it?

If: the blood droplet or spatter on the trunk is Jacob's blood, then:

Was he placed on or in the trunk? Was it blood spatter from being hit with the umbrella stand?

What are some of your speculations regarding the above, because I'm certain that this has run through your minds often, as it has mine.

It has been a long time not to have heard the test results.

 

[shergal]

I noticed on the front page of Websleuths, it talks about the expense of getting documents from the Casey Anthony case. Is it possible to get them from this case, or because no one has been charged it is still a closed investigation. Anyone?

We don't have the sunshine law in MN, so docs are not out there to get like they are in Caylee's case. (You can find most of those Caylee docs for free on doc stoc or elsewhere online tho.)

 

[concentric]

IMO and experience, "Minnesota Nice" has positive and negative features.

I'm focusing on the some of the negative features that may have contributed to the covering up of crimes against children.

1. Make everything appear to be "nice" on the surface, in other words, "covering up" or "denial" that anything is wrong.

2. Make everything "ice"--i.e. freezing the distribution of information to the public.

3. Passive-aggressive behavior

And this is JMO.

 

[human]

yes, passive aggressive. That's us. But, we are also nice for sure.

But don't be fooled. Over 20 years ago, Minnesota had a hig rate of child sexual abuse. Why ? Because we had high rates of reporting as opposed to other states that do keep secrets.

We also were the leader in the issue of dealing with domestic violence, so don't be fooled by Minnesota nice.

 

[margaret_diane]

The name of the guy who dialed 911 (the babysitter's father) is Merle Jerzak. His daughter Rochelle was babysitting Jacob's little sister when the abduction took place.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20115979,00.html

In this article I've linked to above... we are reminded that Jacob's older sister (age 13) was spending the night at a friend's house. Is it possible that the older sister might have been somehow made aware that Jacob, Trevor and Aaron were going to ride in the dark to the Tom Thumb? Maybe Jacob called to tell her that for some reason? If so, then we must wonder if the family of the friend might have been involved somehow? If the sister knew, she might have told her friend (with whom she was staying)... and then the friend might have told her siblings (brother(s)?), or parents (dad?) and one of THEM might have somehow abducted Jacob? Or perhaps a sibling told one of his / her friends... and THAT person became the abductor?

To me, this is a big deal -- if Carmen (Jacob's older sister) had told her friend that her parents were gone for the night, and the boys and younger sister would be home alone, then its feasible that the house was being stalked by someone who knew the friend - be it the friend's family, or other friends of the friend. I know this sounds bananas, but we need to think outside the box! Has this avenue / possibility ever been explored by anyone else (officially or unofficially?).

Further to this point, what about Aaron's family? Where were HIS parents that night? Does he have siblings who are older? Might one of them known the kids would be alone, and maybe planned on scaring the kids??

The entire thing might well have been a joke. Aaron stated himself in one article I've read that at first he thought it was a highschool boy playing a joke - but then he saw the gun, and figured it was a reality. Patty has asked in the media several times of various persons, and expressed her thoughts that maybe it was a joke that went wrong?

If Carmen's friend, or Aarron's family / friends knew the boys were alone, this could well have been a joke that went terribly badly! I'll consider any possibility right now.

 

[human]

I have a correction. The older sister's name is not Carmen. That is the younger sister who was being babysat.

Those could be possibilities, of course.

Aaron lived about 4 miles away. These are the days pre cell phone, so if any calls were made, there would be phone records.

I cannot tell you how difficult it would be to do stalking there. I believe there were 3-5 houses in that cul de sac. And this was at the end of road where there was nothing for quite a ways.

The Wetterlings had a dog as well.

 

[margaret_diane]

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=ro...77&mkt=en-CA&setlang=en-CA&w=afd358a5,4bcb20c

Two Sad Anniversaries —

It was 20 years ago yesterday (October 22) that Jacob Wetterling was abducted near his home in St. Joseph. That act has changed the fabric of the community for both good and bad over the years — good by the way the town came together in support of the Wetterlings and how it remains so still, and bad on how this violent act has taken away the trust and innocence of a prototypical small American town. My classmate Merlyn Jerzak ‘64 and his daughterRochelle Jerzak Curtis ‘97 played bit roles in Jacob’s disappearance. The Jerzaks lived next door to the Wetterlings in a quiet, woodsy neighborhood just outside St. Joe, and Rochelle often babysat for them. The night of the abduction, Rochelle had been phoned by Mrs. Wetterling, who was at a party out of town, to sit for their youngest child while Jacob, his brother and another friend biked over to the convenience store to rent a movie. When the two remaining boys came running home to tell of the nightmare that just happened, Rochelle called her dad, Merle, who immediately notified the police. For those interested, here’s a link to the story as told twenty years later.
*************************************

Interestingly, this bit above notes that Mrs. W. phoned and arranged for Rochelle to babysit her youngest child while Aaron, Trevor and Jacob went to rent the movie. I had always heard that Jacob arranged for the sitter. Now I wonder which is true here? Did the kids arrange for the sitter? Or did Mrs. Wetterling? I don't think Mrs. W. had any involvement in the abduction of her own son -- but maybe if she did phone to make an arrangement for a sitter, then possibly other people knew (perhaps in advance of the parents leaving for their own event) that they were not to be home that night.

Again though, I'd always thought Jacob and the boys arranged for the sitter.

In regards to the name of the sister:
- You're right... Carmen is the younger one... my bad.

 

[concentric]

But don't be fooled. Over 20 years ago, Minnesota had a hig rate of child sexual abuse. Why ? Because we had high rates of reporting as opposed to other states that do keep secrets.
_____________________________

Hi human,

High rates of reporting. OK or should I say okey-dokey, then...

I'm with you on this one, on the reporting part. I remember reading a comment by someone posting on-line that there were more sex crimes committed against children by Public School teachers than Catholic School teachers in the U.S.

So then, I'm thinking to myself: Why is this person saying this?

It's because those crimes by public school teachers were reported, prosecuted, and documented--that's why.

 

[shergal]

I think that article saying Patty called the sitter was mis-reporting, because every other story I've read on Jacob says Jacob called and arranged for a sitter. They wanted to do that before they called Patty & Jerry for permission to ride to Tom Thumb. That way, they'd be more likely to be allowed to go.
On another point, the reason that Patty had asked DR if it was a practical joke that went horribly wrong, was because evidently he was known to be a bit of a practical joker. I think if you watch some of his video interviews, you get a clue, because he is constantly giggling and laughing like this is all quite funny. IMO, that's what made her ask that.
I do like the idea that maybe someone else knew they were going to be going to the store alone. It was a very small town, and news does spread fast in small towns.

 

[chef81]

I did read a comment or an article about the experience of the clerk in the Tom Thumb.
I'll have to go back over the articles you all posted. I've read some of these before. Sometimes it's difficult to remember to save these things because you're scanning so quickly through the material trying to find any little shred of circumstantial evidence.

Here's what I remember from reading articles/comments (and we realize that sometimes comments are a) telling or b) rumors, or both with a nugget of truth):

The clerk (?), or was it a customer in the store (maybe not on the same night), saying something to the effect that a man would come into the store repeatedly after the abduction and talk about the case. Also, I believe the same person said that this man told him or her that he frequently just drove around the area.

Once again, this could be heresay, just to reiterate.

I'm wondering if the clerk your talking about is the same person who wrote this short letter about 4 months ago.
"Dear Patty and Jerry,
My husband and I will be arriving in Mn sometime tomorrow afternoon. I had my operation on my adreanal gland a week ago and I am doing fine. The biopsy report has not come yet, I know it will not be in my favor. We will be doing an Expo for retired baby boomers at Mystic Lake Casino on the 5th and 6th. We have to be back to Az by the 14th , for I have a doctor's appointment then. I would like to meet with you as SOON as possible to locate Jacob. I truly believe he is alive and the man who came in to our store the day Jacob was taken from yous the abductor . I'll never forget his face or the look in his eyes,

Please contact me on my cell phone:651-251-7380

Posted by Carol Allen from Green Valley, AZ | October 1, 2010 2:45 AM"




It was found on a website under the comments section. If this post isn't bogus, it does seem like she knows Jerry and Patty to some extent. Of course this post/letter has been given to the JW Foundation and the authorities, but I don't know what ever came of it.

 

[margaret_diane]

Has anyone been able to find any information about the meeting / dance (?) that was going on in town during the day of the abduction? Who was participating, where were they from and who all participated, where did they stay (if they were out of towners)?

 

[shergal]

Chef: No, the woman who wrote that letter was from the covenience store in Avon, MN, which is a small town near St. Joe. The creepy staring guy was seen there that day also staring at people. (Link is somewhere back in these threads.) ;-) The Jerzak girl would be younger, late 30's now, maybe.

Margaret Diane: IIIRC, it was some sort of music group or convention of musical groups? I'd have to go back and look it up.

 

[margaret_diane]

The Jerzak girl (the babysitter)... she is all grown up now and I believe she has a family of her own. I would LOVE to interview her regarding what happened that night!! I wonder if she would agree to do so? I bet this case haunts her to this day (how could it not?!).

 

[concentric]

Just by chance, I was watching 48 Hours, Hard Evidence programs. The case about Shawn Hornbeck was on. That FBI agent who found the boys is amazing, IMO. Several observant people who took initiative to contact authorities were the key in figuring it out--like the man who who noticed the truck details and the owner of the pizza parlor there who saw that truck and connected it with Devlin and his absence from the job.

Devlin, I believe is 45 yrs. old, so back in 1989 he would have been 21-22 yrs. old, something like that.

You do have to wonder if he was in that area driving around.

What about the guy who said he was an Art student? Any more info. on that?

 

[shergal]

The Jerzak girl (the babysitter)... she is all grown up now and I believe she has a family of her own. I would LOVE to interview her regarding what happened that night!! I wonder if she would agree to do so? I bet this case haunts her to this day (how could it not?!).

There are two Jerzak girls; the one who babysat and the one who worked at Tom Thumb in St. Joe where the boys rented the videos. Way back in these threads we found that older sister's name in those old St. John's newspaper archives. We thought it would be good to interview her, because she is the one who saw the boys at the store and also saw the old creepy staring guy. I couldn't find the post where we posted her first name. (Maybe some mod deleted it long ago?)

As far as interviewing the babysitter, at least there are recent interviews online with Aaron who was actually there - so those are good to listen to.

 

[concentric]

OK - here is where I believe I read the clerk talked about the man in the Tom Thumb:
__________________________________________

http://www.immelman.us/news/missing-person-joshua-guimond/

Sidebar: Suspect Sketch in Wetterling/Guimond Investigation

Below is a police sketch Fox 9 KMSP-TV in the Twin Cities used in a February 2004 feature about a college student working at the Tom Thumb convenience store in St. Joseph, who rented the video “Naked Gun” to Jacob Wetterling minutes before his abduction on October 22, 1989.

According to the Fox 9 report, this man came to the Tom Thumb store two weeks to the day after the abduction and talked obsessively about Jacob, saying, &#8220;They&#8217;ll never find that boy&#8221; (note the depersonalization of the victim in that st<span class="searchterm2">atement).

The clerk thought this individual, described as a white male about 50 years of age (or about 70 in 2009) with receding gray hair, was behaving suspiciously. She reported him to the FBI and apparently the sketch was produced based on her eyewitness account.

This person closely matches the description of a suspicious person seen lurking around the Tom Thumb store and other area video rental places on the day of Jacob&#8217;s abduction.
____________________________

With regard to the name of clerk, as shergal has said above, I also think the clerk gave an account of what happened that night in a talk that was made either on the campus of St. John, printed in the St. John's newsletter, or in a Public Radio broadcast (I remember reading that account, as shergal has said.) Says above that there was a news item about the clerk's experience: Fox 9 KMSP-TV in the Twin Cities used in a February 2004 feature. Wonder if there is further info. in this feature.