MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

[human]

how would the perp know where the boys lived unless it was someone who knew them. This has long stretches of nothing. There would be no way that the perp would know the kids were going back as far as they were.

Where did this perp come from? No cars. Please explain how this could work because I don't get it.

Someone is just standing around? Why? No car? No car was seen. This road is long! A mile or more for sure. The logistics escape me unless it was a neighbor who lived there .

 

[Cappuccino]

how would the perp know where the boys lived unless it was someone who knew them. This has long stretches of nothing.

When did I suggest that the perp knew where they lived? I don't know what's causing such disagreement here. My suggestion is simple, that an unknown person was parked somewhere in between the end of the country road and the video store, saw which direction the boys came from and went down that road and lay in wait.

There would be no way that the perp would know the kids were going back as far as they were.

There would be no way for DR to know they were coming back either. They could have been going to a friends house, but he "got lucky", is apparently the theory. Someone else could have gotten lucky too.

Where did this perp come from? No cars. Please explain how this could work because I don't get it.

How do you know there were no cars? There were no witnesses apart from the two boys who escaped, and to state the obvious, anybody lying in wait for them would have hidden the car from them. He could have parked half way up DR's driveway for all we know, (there were footprints going up the drive weren't there?).

Or it could have been DR himself.

 

[shergal]

It is very frustrating that this has been dragged out for so many years. And yes, any theories are possible, because we just don't know. Maybe it's time the sheriff made public more of the info they have that has them so convinced all these years that DR is a definite POI. I'm sure they have held info back that we are not aware of.

I do agree with Jenilou that DR just seems like the most likely person. Patty Wetterling's original theory was that because it was shortly before Halloween, maybe DR was just pulling a "prank" and trying to scare these boys with his mask and gun, and then it went horribly wrong once he had Jacob. (DR has said in interviews he enjoys playing pranks at school and is known for that.)

It could be that DR had a friend over while his parents were gone and the friend did this as he was leaving and DR suspected that, but had no real proof. It would also be good if DR would just come out and say what this 'secret info" is that he has on "what I saw that day" - maybe it would stir a memory for someone else.

 

[human]

the boys saw no cars.

In order for the perp to know where to get the boys, he would have to know where their house is. This is a long road with nothing for a long long way, and the cul de sac certainly would not be known by anyone except someone who knew the area. The road turns so no one would know what was at the end of that road. For all someone knew, it would be another farmhouse. But, it was the cul de sac. A ways from the DR farm down the road. No sign saying cul de sac with homes. Just a dark dark road with no streetlights.

The perp could not be in 2 places at once. He could not see where they came from. If he did, he sure couldn't beat them to the store because they saw no cars. He could not follow them back . He would have no way of knowing where they were going after the store unless he could follow them. How could that happen on a dirt road? He would be heard.

And most of all to me, how did he know that the DR driveway was a great spot to get the kids; that they would be going that far or that direction; or that no one would be coming out of the DR driveway to catch him in his deed.

 

[Cappuccino]

A person could have been parked in a car beyond the end of the country road and before the video store. From there he could have seen the three boys cycle out of that road and towards the video store. He could then have driven down the road from where they came and parked in the first driveway he came to and waited....

Of course he couldn't know for certain that they would come back that way or that far down the road. Nor could DR have known for certain that they would come back at all, they could have been going to stay the night at the other boy's house. Whoever kidnapped Jacob, whether DR or some unknown, took a chance and "got lucky". He was armed too, so if it was an unknown DR is probably lucky he didn't come down the drive that night.

 

[CanManEh]

This is a new case for myself but very interesting wish i had of followed it back when it happened. Anyone know if there has been any video of this case like a disappeared episode or 48 hours something like that? .

 

[human]

by the store, there was a little strip of houses=maybe 10 that were a little distance apart. Suburban distance, not city.

I think someone would have noticed that someone parked in their driveway. Now this would be a long long long ways from the DR driveway. How would the perp get a heavy child a mile down a road back to his car?

After the little development, there was nothing until the DR farm which is set way back off of the road.

Please look at maps. They have been listed here, although I am not sure if there is anything from those days as the development has gone wild and is nothing like back then. Roads on the new maps did not exist.

 

[Leprikawn]

The most likely person would be DR. He was close by, a little strange and fits a certain profile.
But...
Sometimes we get bogged down by people like this, and forget the whole picture. The parents were going out that night. Who knew this?
It could be that a person that knew the babysitter, or the event that the parents were going to, and knew that Jacob was going to be home and without parents there to protect him. Maybe they saw them going to town, and knew where Jacob lived and went and laid in wait, knowing where to park, and where to hide.

it could have been a local sicko, who knew the house Jacob lived in and was out trolling for an opportunity to grab a boy. and this was just too good to pass up!

Also I have been around young boys and they can be clueless to their surroundings. They could have went right past a parked car and didn't notice. If you have sons you know what I'm talking about!

It seems like this investigation has looked at "obvious" solutions. The whacky neighbor close by or the Pedophile priests of the local parish! maybe they need to look a little sideways and ask "Who had knowledge that the parents were going out that night?"

 

[human]

could be Leprakawn.

I believe the decision to go to the PTA function was last minute.

Even if the perp knew the boys were home alone, how would he know that they were going to get a movie?

Why would the perp wait in the DR driveway? The only place to park would be on the side of the road. The roads there are ditched, so no way to drive up on land unless you want to leave huge chunks of your car behind.

 

[Jbrown324320]

If I remember right, there were trees in front of DR's driveway, a good place to hide a car. Jacob's footprints just vanish, so either he was carried or got into a car. Trevor also said in an interview that he heard a strange rustling sound in the grass on the side of the road on the way to the store. He said on the way back from the store the gunman came up to them from the spot he had heard the rustling from before. Maybe he was hoping that one of the boys would be riding alone on the way back.

Priests do have Sunday evenings off to recover from the hectic Saturday/Sunday schedule. Sorry, my bias showing. What if DR saw the priest's car in his driveway and don't want to say anything because he knows that the sheriff covers for the priests? I think the sheriff botched this investigation from the beginning. He noticed that the person following the scanner was a US Marshall? He should have still investigated him instead of just letting him go. I think the sheriff trusted too many people because of the small town relationships (priests, possible witnesses) instead of doing his job investigating everyone close to that scene. Not going into DR's house? Why the heck not?

 

[human]

wasn't the rustling on the way back? I forget.

I do think that this investigation was messed up. But, it was a first . The DR family had standing in the community, so that is probably why there was a pass.

I am not saying DR did it. How would I know. But, in all the scenarios presented, the logistics have to be worked out to make sense, and not much makes sense.

Why would DR, a grown man, call the Sheriff to report that a car had turned around in his driveway? That to me is really bizarre.

And why would DR, who is a teacher, be not interested in the fact that a child was missing on his property. He said that he was tired. I find that so strange in a person that is a marathon runner and there being no school the next day. Just some oddities that don't make sense.

 

[ShyViolet]

When did I suggest that the perp knew where they lived? I don't know what's causing such disagreement here. My suggestion is simple, that an unknown person was parked somewhere in between the end of the country road and the video store, saw which direction the boys came from and went down that road and lay in wait.

There would be no way for DR to know they were coming back either. They could have been going to a friends house, but he "got lucky", is apparently the theory. Someone else could have gotten lucky too.

How do you know there were no cars? There were no witnesses apart from the two boys who escaped, and to state the obvious, anybody lying in wait for them would have hidden the car from them. He could have parked half way up DR's driveway for all we know, (there were footprints going up the drive weren't there?).

Or it could have been DR himself.

BBM

Unless, of course, the noise Aaron heard on the way to the store was the abductor, who listened in as the boys conversed about their plans?

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

If I remember right, there were trees in front of DR's driveway, a good place to hide a car. Jacob's footprints just vanish, so either he was carried or got into a car. Trevor also said in an interview that he heard a strange rustling sound in the grass on the side of the road on the way to the store. He said on the way back from the store the gunman came up to them from the spot he had heard the rustling from before. Maybe he was hoping that one of the boys would be riding alone on the way back.?

I have wondered the same thing about the footprints. I've read that where the prints ended it was as if his toe dug into the dirt. To me, this indicates a struggle of some sort. So did someone really pick up an 11-year-old boy and carry him the rest of the way (to the house or whatever his destination was)? A vehicle seems more likely to me.

I thought it was Aaron who heard the strange sound. Not that it matters. I read that as well that one of the boys heard the sound on the way there in the same spot where the man confronted them on the way back.

 

[human]

Is there a reference for the rustling both ways? I know, I should look my own self.

If it was on the way, then it would seem that it would have to be someone that lives in the hood.

 

[human]

yes, Aaron heard rustling on the way there

http://www.startribune.com/templates/Print_This_Story?sid=64655247

 

[Cappuccino]

by the store, there was a little strip of houses=maybe 10 that were a little distance apart. Suburban distance, not city.

I think someone would have noticed that someone parked in their driveway.

He didn't have to park in the driveway of one of those houses. There is a turn off the main road on the left hand side as you come out of the country road. He could have parked there, and from there he could have seen where the boys came from and where they were headed.

Now this would be a long long long ways from the DR driveway. How would the perp get a heavy child a mile down a road back to his car?

Where on earth are you getting that from? Seriously, I don't see what's so difficult here. He saw the boys go to the video store, drove, not walked, down the road from where they'd cycled, parked his car in DR's driveway and lain in wait.

Please look at maps. They have been listed here, although I am not sure if there is anything from those days as the development has gone wild and is nothing like back then. Roads on the new maps did not exist.

I've looked at the maps from 1989, and read every thread on here about this case. That's how I know about the turn off to the left hand side.

 

[Cappuccino]

There are a few problems with the case against DR. This is not to discount him as a suspect, he's a good supect, but there are a few complications...

1) Jared described his attacker and the description doesn't fit DR.

2) Aaron described the masked man who accosted them as well as you can describe someone with a mask on his face. The height doesn't match, nor does Aaron's description of the man's voice.

3) DR has been teaching children for 32 years. Along the way he has also been a volleyball coach and yearbook advisor. And yet even though he has been all over the local press as a suspect in Jacob's disappearance, none of his former or current pupils have ever come forward and accused him of molestation or anything else incriminating.

4) DR has been interviewed several times without an attorney present, has voluntarily given DNA and voluntarily taken a polygraph, (which he says he passed, he could be lying but nobody has ever contradicted him either).

5) His property has been searched three times and nothing incriminating has ever been found.

6) Would DR abduct a child at the end of his own driveway? He had no way of knowing that LE wouldn't search his property for five days, for all he knew they would search it that night. People do stupid/impulsive things, but is DR stupid or impulsive? He's been working with children for 32 years, so if he's a paedophile he seems to be a very disciplined, or a very sneaky one.

None of the above are insurmountable problems, but they do need to be taken into consideration.

 

[human]

PleaseCappucino describe where this turn off is that you are talking about?

The video store (actually it was a convenience store) is at least 1/2 mile from the DR driveway. How could the perp know the kids were going that far?

I am not saying it's DR, but look at what it took to get the Penn State stuff going

I know of a teacher who did stuff where I live, and no one ever came forward. As a matter of fact, when I called a parent to come forward, she slammed the phone down.

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm suggesting that the perp was parked somewhere near the intersection of the main road and side road that led to the Tom Thumb store. From there he could have seen the boys coming up the street and also seen them enter the store. He then could have driven down the road from which he saw the boys emerge, parked in the driveway of DR's house and waited.

How could the perp know the kids were going that far?

He didn't know. The illusion that he knew is created by the fact that he got lucky. Bear in mind that if my theoretical abductor exists at all he may well have spent all day hanging out in and around quiet country roads hoping to catch a stray child to snatch. I've never attempted to abduct anybody, but I suppose as with anything else in life if you try and try again, eventually you will get lucky.

I am not saying it's DR, but look at what it took to get the Penn State stuff going

Herein lies the problem - the accusations/suspicions against DR have been going for a while now. Years, in fact. From the time Sandusky's activities started to hit the headlines how long did it take for others to come forward? Less than a year.

I know of a teacher who did stuff where I live, and no one ever came forward. As a matter of fact, when I called a parent to come forward, she slammed the phone down.

Was that teacher named in the local press as a POI in a probable murder case? Because I find it very hard to believe that nobody - not a single victim, not a single friend of the victims, not a single parent, not a single associate of DR's (a la Mike McQueary) - would come forward after all this time.

And what about the DNA from Jared's rape kit? If that matched DR's DNA do you think LE wouldn't tell someone in the local school authorities? And yet DR is still working as a teacher. Another nail in the coffin of the case against DR - having looked back over the past threads to refresh my memory on the maps, it appears that among all the other things LE have looked at is DR's computer and files. Nothing incriminating. Victims not coming forward after all this time, I might just buy. But no child *advertiser censored* on his computer?

Face it, DR has been interviewed repeatedly, searched, polygraphed, DNA taken, he's even been hypnotised!! If they've found nothing incriminating, then maybe there was never anything incriminating to find.

 

[jenilou]

There are a few problems with the case against DR. This is not to discount him as a suspect, he's a good supect, but there are a few complications...

1) Jared described his attacker and the description doesn't fit DR.

2) Aaron described the masked man who accosted them as well as you can describe someone with a mask on his face. The height doesn't match, nor does Aaron's description of the man's voice.

3) DR has been teaching children for 32 years. Along the way he has also been a volleyball coach and yearbook advisor. And yet even though he has been all over the local press as a suspect in Jacob's disappearance, none of his former or current pupils have ever come forward and accused him of molestation or anything else incriminating.

4) DR has been interviewed several times without an attorney present, has voluntarily given DNA and voluntarily taken a polygraph, (which he says he passed, he could be lying but nobody has ever contradicted him either).

5) His property has been searched three times and nothing incriminating has ever been found.

6) Would DR abduct a child at the end of his own driveway? He had no way of knowing that LE wouldn't search his property for five days, for all he knew they would search it that night. People do stupid/impulsive things, but is DR stupid or impulsive? He's been working with children for 32 years, so if he's a paedophile he seems to be a very disciplined, or a very sneaky one.

None of the above are insurmountable problems, but they do need to be taken into consideration.

In my opinion it was impulsive. The problem with all that you stated above is that he was is, and unfortunately always will be, the person who was at the scene of the crime with no alibi. He's stated before that he has other information but has trust issues with the media...what other information?? Why not share if it could help exonerate him?