MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

[Cappuccino]

OK. But if you had been to the site, I think you would see it differently. Why go to a spot that is highly unlikely to wait for some children who may or may not go by?

It does not have to be DR. It could be a buddy of his or any other people. Lots of peds in the area for sure because of the pedo priests and I am sure, their buddies.

Because its a good spot to lie in wait for children who came from that direction. He doesn't need to be sure that they will come back that far, he's just chancing his arm. That's what grabbers do.

I live in Ireland, out in the countryside. I know what quiet country roads are like, see the case of Mary Boyle who disappeared within a mile from me, most likely taken by the serial killer Robert Black. He had no reason to be driving round an obsucre country back road with about three houses on it. He had no way of knowing that any child would be there, or even there were any houses down that road, (which from the main road looked at the time like little more than a bridle path). He had no reason to even be in Ireland. He was scouting around looking for an opportunity and eventually he found one.

That's what people like him do.

 

[human]

I think the countryside there is different, but whatever.

2 things I really wonder about. Why would DR call LE about a car turning in his driveway? That happens a lot. I turn in driveways myself because roads are closed because of road construction and I see I have to go a different way.

Wouldn't the perp be quite brave to park in the DR driveway for quite awhile? How does he know no one is coming out and we is going to be seen? It was a beautiful night with especially good weather for that time of year.

 

[Cappuccino]

I think the countryside there is different, but whatever.

The countryside may very well be different, but the mentality of such predators would be very much the same.

2 things I really wonder about. Why would DR call LE about a car turning in his driveway? That happens a lot. I turn in driveways myself because roads are closed because of road construction and I see I have to go a different way.

I don't know, good question.

Wouldn't the perp be quite brave to park in the DR driveway for quite awhile? How does he know no one is coming out and we is going to be seen? It was a beautiful night with especially good weather for that time of year.

On a quiet country road which, as you keep stressing, had very little signs of life or habitation along it. Besides, I don't think such a person would be too scrupulous about dealing with anybody who chanced on him. He wasn't too worried about two witnesses that he left alive either.

 

[human]

the witnesses were children. He had on a mask in the pitch dark. Far different scenario for an adult or adults coming upon him.

People are implying he parked in the DR driveway. There was no other place to park, except next to the road, which would put his car front and center on a narrow dirt road. The roads are ditched, so no way to park but in a driveway or on the road.

 

[Cappuccino]

We don't know much about Jacob's kidnapper, but we do know he wasn't averse to taking risks. To kidnap one child in front of two others, leave the other two alive, not even restrain long enough to enable a getaway, and even in a weird way give them a head start at running to find adult help, that's not a cautious criminal.

If its DR, even less so because he did this with a stocking and a fake gravelly voice as his only protection, knowing that he's doing this practically on his own doorstep with no alibi, no pretence of even being asleep. He calls the police about a car in his drive when he could very easily have dropped that red herring when they knocked on his door, (which he must surely have known they would). He then drives out of his premises the next day with a car full of boxes, and when he gets away with that he draws the media's attention to it!! DR as the kidnapper would have to be a risk taker to the extent that he must be pathologically narcissist. He really must be so grandiose that he thinks he can get away with anything.

And the profile wouldn't be much different for my hypothetical stranger either. Whichever way you look at it, this kidnapper didn't use anything that a normal person would recognise as logic.

 

[Cappuccino]

I don't think this was his first abduction, btw, whoever did it. IMO, a first timer at this would have been more nervous even if he was a narcissist.

 

[human]

DR was not considered a suspect in the beginning. I wonder what changed?

I wonder how LE got a sealed warrant to search the property in such an invasive way?

I think the standards to get a warrant for something so huge are pretty high.

 

[Cappuccino]

Probable cause is the standard for every search warrant. The standards to get one sealed, I don't know about.

DR should have been considered a suspect in the beginning, and its astonishing that he wasn't. He certainly couldn't have predicted that he wouldn't be. If he did do this, his actions that night and in the immediate aftermath are insanely audacious.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

If its DR, even less so because he did this with a stocking and a fake gravelly voice as his only protection, knowing that he's doing this practically on his own doorstep with no alibi, no pretence of even being asleep. He calls the police about a car in his drive when he could very easily have dropped that red herring when they knocked on his door, (which he must surely have known they would).

I was just questioning this myself. If DR is guilty, why would he call the police to report a car in his driveway and risk having the police show up to his property where he just committed a crime? He would have known it wouldn't be long before they would arrive anyway after having two witnesses. It would likely give him even less time to hide a child before the police showed up.

 

[human]

he certainly is very arrogant when you see him on tapes.

I think it was a first time spontaneous abduction. Very poorly planned .

An accomplished abductor would not have left witnesses. How easy to to hit the boys on the head or to shoot them. Shots in the country are not that noticed. Throw the bikes off into the field and no one would be the wiser for hours.

Or have ropes or duct tape if you are a serious abductor. This sounds totally amateur to me.

I think to get a warrant to dig up a yard is huge. Minnesota was in a financial crisis and to dedicate that much money meant there had to be something pretty solid to warrant the money and manpower.

And the sealing of the warrant. That is interesting in itself.

 

[Cappuccino]

Judges don't make decisions about warrants on the grounds of financial concerns. The legal standard is probable cause, no matter how much it costs and no matter what the public finances are.

The sealing is interesting, I agree.

 

[human]

info about a sealed warrant.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7419832_sealed-warrant_.html

DR and his family have plenty of money. Why don't they hire a big deal attorney to deal with these issues? Instead, DR feels that it's good enough that he writes some letters. Arrogant? Cheap? Not too smart? What?

 

[Cappuccino]

Could be any or all or none of the above. Its completely irrelevant though, because being arrogant, cheap and not too smart doesn't mean he kidnapped Jacob Wetterling. Like alot of things about DR it could be taken several ways.

The fact that he hasn't sued is not a reason to accuse someone.

 

[human]

the police would NEVER EVER come out for a report of a car turning in a driveway, so the fact that he called LE about it is incredibly strange.

I am not accusing DR. I am asking questions about a POI and his actions trying to make sense of them.

When a suspect is finally arrested, it is amazing how much info they have, such as with Josh Powell. Things the public never knew.

If DR had an attorney, he would find out at least some things that LE has on him. I wonder why he doesn't? Wouldn't that go to clear his name, which apparently he wants?

 

[Cappuccino]

the police would NEVER EVER come out for a report of a car turning in a driveway, so the fact that he called LE about it is incredibly strange.

I am not accusing DR. I am asking questions about a POI and his actions trying to make sense of them.

When a suspect is finally arrested, it is amazing how much info they have, such as with Josh Powell. Things the public never knew.

I agree with all of the above. But...

If DR had an attorney, he would find out at least some things that LE has on him. I wonder why he doesn't? Wouldn't that go to clear his name, which apparently he wants?

Here is where I think you're in danger of tipping over into irrelevant character assassination. Let's pretend DR had lawyered up long ago. Be honest, would you see that as a sign of innocence? The McCanns lawyered up and sued people who accused them of involvement in Madeliene's disappearance, take a look at the Madeliene McCann forum. Their actions are looked at as a sure fire sign of guilt. Same with Lisa Irwin's parents, (although they might actually be guilty of something). You lawyer up, you're guilty. You don't, you're guilty.

This is the mentality of a witch hunt not a sleuthing forum for rational people. Let's get back to discussing the case, the evidence, and sensible guesses about what we know. DR suing or not suing is his own business, and his decision not to sue may be nothing more sinister than he just doesn't want the hassle.

MOO, JMO, etc.

 

[shergal]

anyone ? .....was there a 48 hours or unsolved mysterys episode on this story disappeared .amw anything was there any story done about this case done in video like a dateline or 48 hours mystery.. ? ?. ?

Welcome CanManEh, here is the transcript and video from when Nancy Grace featured Jacob's case on her 50 days of 50 missing series.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/28/50-people-in-50-days-boy-abducted-at-gunpoint-21-years-ago/

 

[shergal]

DR was not considered a suspect in the beginning. I wonder what changed?

I wonder how LE got a sealed warrant to search the property in such an invasive way?

I think the standards to get a warrant for something so huge are pretty high.

Actually, from what I've read, DR was considered a suspect in the beginning, that's why they gave him a lie detector test. (LE has never revealed those results, BTW.) But the public never heard that he had been a suspect since the beginning until they started digging on his farm in 2010. That was the first time it was publicized.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

the police would NEVER EVER come out for a report of a car turning in a driveway, so the fact that he called LE about it is incredibly strange.

NEVER EVER? Most likely they wouldn't. But we don't know what said in that conversation. Isn't it possible that he might have asked them to come check out his property and make sure everything was OK? It would be interesting to hear a recording of that call.

 

[shergal]

It's odd they've released the 911 call from Jacob's neighbor, but never released DR's 911 call. It would be really interesting to hear that.

I really want to know what he thinks he saw or heard that day also that was so important, and yet he won't tell media about it. Frustrating.

 

[Cappuccino]

It's odd they've released the 911 call from Jacob's neighbor, but never released DR's 911 call. It would be really interesting to hear that.

I really want to know what he thinks he saw or heard that day also that was so important, and yet he won't tell media about it. Frustrating.

Interesting and frustrating indeed. Another thing - DR has been interviewed numerous times by the police with no lawyer present, (and I am sure he's plenty intelligent and well educated enough to know his rights). Whatever he saw or heard that day, he has a moral responsibility to tell the police all about, but he has no responsibility at all to tell the media.

If he's held something back from the police that he's now hinting at in public, then why don't they pull him in and question him again? Its not like he has a lawyer who would stop them...