MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

[JerseyJo]

Here is an interview with Aaron Larson:
http://www.startribune.com/video/64688382.html#/64688382/video/1/

This is worth watching for many reasons. But it does seem to answer your question about the questioning of the children of their ages. Aaron's story here seems to align with your version #1.

I had watched this video once before, but could not find the link again, so thank you.

I find it rather interesting that Aaron seems to think that there was a 50-50 chance that the abductor could have picked Jacob or himself.

After reading through the facts of the case initially, my gut reaction was also that it was the luck of the draw. Since Aaron and Jacob were both eleven, could it all boil down to Jacob being the last man standing so to speak (Trevor and Aaron had already been told to run).

On a side note, I have not been able to find any definitive information about the pizza delivery to the Wetterling home. Does anyone know if the pizza was delivered to the house while the Wetterling parents were still home?

Prayers to the families in Oklahoma effected by the tornado today...

 

[JerseyJo]

This is something I have wondered many times myself - I lean toward #2 because that's the version I've read most consistently. I think LE knows exactly what the order in which the boys were asked, and in which order the boys were lying in the ditch - but this would be information only the boys and the kidnapper would know, so they're likely not going to release this information definitively.

I would have thought that more information might have been released by LE after after so many years.

As far as the order in which the boys were laying face down in the ditch. I keep going back to the order in which the abductor asked each boy their age. Instinctively I think we are programmed to go from left to right...which leads me to believe that Jacob, sadly, drew the unlucky last slot.

 

[ELOCsoul]

This is what I think, also. If the abductor needed to know their ages, why would he have Trevor and Aaron run before finding out how old each boy was, including Jacob? It makes makes more sense to me that he first asked each one for their age before he chose Jacob.

I've watched the video a couple times today, and I'm still not quite convinced meant that as a literal telling of how it happened. If the abductor was after Jacob specifically, he likely would have known his age. Trevor was 10, so he could send him away without looking at him. Aaron was also 11, so the abductor looked at his face before letting him go. The majority of accounts I have read do not indicated that he ever asked Jacob his age.

This process of selection strikes as me the single most important key in determining the nature of Jacob's abduction - planned vs spur of the moment.

 

[ELOCsoul]

OK, some food for thought here - something I've been thinking about for a few weeks now - ever since DR has started sharing his story about the 2 cars in his driveway that day.

(This is just a "what if" scenario, not an opinion). Let's assume for the sake of argument, that DR was the perp in Jacob's case. He is outside between the house and road, sees the boys go by and decides to abduct one of them on their way back. He commits the crime, then somehow moves Jacob to somewhere else on the property. Shortly after, Kevin comes by with his car and turns around in the driveway. DR sees Kevin's appearance in the driveway as an explanation for the kidnapping. He builds this big story of the cars in the driveway during the day and night. LE investigates and confirms there are tire tracks. DR knows he saw a big car, but tells LE it was a small car, knowing that if they ever do find Kevin, they'll know it wasn't him because he drove a big car. They search for this car for 15 years and ultimately determine it was Kevin and that he was not involved.

So here is my big question: Assuming that the kidnapping happened as described above - what would DR's story have been if Kevin had not turned around in his driveway that night? Follow me?

 

[SpringThyme]

OK, some food for thought here - something I've been thinking about for a few weeks now - ever since DR has started sharing his story about the 2 cars in his driveway that day.

(This is just a "what if" scenario, not an opinion). Let's assume for the sake of argument, that DR was the perp in Jacob's case. He is outside between the house and road, sees the boys go by and decides to abduct one of them on their way back. He commits the crime, then somehow moves Jacob to somewhere else on the property. Shortly after, Kevin comes by with his car and turns around in the driveway. DR sees Kevin's appearance in the driveway as an explanation for the kidnapping. He builds this big story of the cars in the driveway during the day and night. LE investigates and confirms there are tire tracks. DR knows he saw a big car, but tells LE it was a small car, knowing that if they ever do find Kevin, they'll know it wasn't him because he drove a big car. They search for this car for 15 years and ultimately determine it was Kevin and that he was not involved.

So here is my big question: Assuming that the kidnapping happened as described above - what would DR's story have been if Kevin had not turned around in his driveway that night? Follow me?

I think he could have just played dumb/said he didn't notice anything. if police found Jacob alive, the perp wore a mask so none of the boys could ID him. DR could have acted shocked he was found there. Maybe police would have assumed the perp got away on foot. At the time, everyone was looking for a stranger and disinclined to believe a community member could be responsible. If DR did do this, the car provided him with a way to distract police. He could have waited until his farm was clear of police and go wherever Jacob was hidden.

 

[human]

DR called LE about people stealing his wood.

When told LE was looking at a kidnapping, he says, "Oh". (Apparently a kidnapping is no big deal)

He also says they could look here and here.

He then talks about a local putting Jacob in the DR gravel pit.

How could anyone get to the gravel pit?

Aren't there lots of other easier choices?

Those comments are really really strange, to me

 

[odyssey1492]

OK, some food for thought here - something I've been thinking about for a few weeks now - ever since DR has started sharing his story about the 2 cars in his driveway that day.

(This is just a "what if" scenario, not an opinion). Let's assume for the sake of argument, that DR was the perp in Jacob's case. He is outside between the house and road, sees the boys go by and decides to abduct one of them on their way back. He commits the crime, then somehow moves Jacob to somewhere else on the property. Shortly after, Kevin comes by with his car and turns around in the driveway. DR sees Kevin's appearance in the driveway as an explanation for the kidnapping. He builds this big story of the cars in the driveway during the day and night. LE investigates and confirms there are tire tracks. DR knows he saw a big car, but tells LE it was a small car, knowing that if they ever do find Kevin, they'll know it wasn't him because he drove a big car. They search for this car for 15 years and ultimately determine it was Kevin and that he was not involved.

So here is my big question: Assuming that the kidnapping happened as described above - what would DR's story have been if Kevin had not turned around in his driveway that night? Follow me?

My guess is his story does not change. He could still say he saw a car in his driveway, the story could have moved the tan car from the day to the night.

Here's a question to think about. If Dan is lying, why would he give stories about two different cars in the same day? If he made up the stories about cars to mask his guilt, why not just say the night car was the same tan car he saw during the day. The description he gave did not match Kevin's car, so why make it seem like a third car was involved (tan car, smaller night car, Kevin's car)? He could have said tan car during the day, tan car at night -- that's the kidnapper.

Even if he saw Kevin's car, and made up a story about cars during the day and night, why give them different descriptions?

I'm having a hard time seeing a rationale for this; anyone have ideas?

 

[odyssey1492]

I've watched the video a couple times today, and I'm still not quite convinced meant that as a literal telling of how it happened. If the abductor was after Jacob specifically, he likely would have known his age. Trevor was 10, so he could send him away without looking at him. Aaron was also 11, so the abductor looked at his face before letting him go. The majority of accounts I have read do not indicated that he ever asked Jacob his age.

This process of selection strikes as me the single most important key in determining the nature of Jacob's abduction - planned vs spur of the moment.

I don't think Aaron's version in this interview can 100% be said to be literal. That said, the written accounts vary widely to my memory. Most of them are written not to convey an exact telling of the events but to more simply explain what happened. So, a lot of the written accounts in newspapers and online articles have to be read with that in mind. Aaron's account is pretty specific on how it happened, and I have read other accounts that match his telling. Absent a definitive answer by police, the Wetterlings, or Aaron on the exact way it happened, we are left to guess and interpret. I'm inclined to lean towards Aaron's telling of it because he was there and may vividly remember it. On the other hand, given the stress and fear in that situation, the reality may be that neither Aaron nor Trevor remember exactly how it happened, and their memories inaccurately have shaped how they remember it happening.

I guess the bottom line is: we just don't know.

 

[human]

My guess is his story does not change. He could still say he saw a car in his driveway, the story could have moved the tan car from the day to the night.

Here's a question to think about. If Dan is lying, why would he give stories about two different cars in the same day? If he made up the stories about cars to mask his guilt, why not just say the night car was the same tan car he saw during the day. The description he gave did not match Kevin's car, so why make it seem like a third car was involved (tan car, smaller night car, Kevin's car)? He could have said tan car during the day, tan car at night -- that's the kidnapper.

Even if he saw Kevin's car, and made up a story about cars during the day and night, why give them different descriptions?

I'm having a hard time seeing a rationale for this; anyone have ideas?

If you have,not followed Jodi Arias, you could look at a synopsis on WS.

Liars make up stories that make no sense except to them. They think they are clever and do not see the inconsistencies in their stories.

People are too polite to confront liars, so they continue to think that others buy their lies

 

[JerseyJo]

Bumping for Jacob...

More food for thought, strictly hypothetical.

Is it possible that the vehicle that DR is claiming he saw was in fact Kevin's?

Two theories (hear me out)

DR claimed that the vehicle he saw on the night of the abduction had a woman (possibly a child) in the passenger seat. Wasn't Kevin accompanied by his girlfriend the night of the abduction?

If DR is in fact telling the truth, as stated above. Possibly Kevin drove up the road leading to DR's house much further than he recalled. Or, DR had to be closer to the abduction site, and NOT in the house, in order to see Kevin's vehicle.

It is frustrating to imagine how much evidence Kevin's vehicle may have destroyed.

 

[human]

Good point about Kevin's car destroying evidence

 

[ELOCsoul]

Good point about Kevin's car destroying evidence

Agreed - but the police allowed it to be destroyed by not securing the crime scene.

 

[human]

What is all of this fabulous information that DR has?

Why does he not share it?

 

[Pensfan]

Was DNA taken from the raped child in Cold Springs? I'll bet not because Dan is likely impotent. Impotence or premature ejaculation are common in juvenile sex offenders and, IMO, Dan's psyche is likely stuck far below his biological age. The frustrations from an abnormal psychosexual development can cause individuals to be fixated at an earlier developmental stage.

Dan has lived his whole life in the same house ISOLATED from other adults with his very strict and very religious parents. Dan has never dated adult women or men. Ask yourself what is Dan’s sexual preference if it’s not adult men or women?

The Cold Spring male rape victim didn't identify Dan decades ago, but maybe he would if questioned again. This photo looks shockingly like Dan Rassier without his glasses. Remember that a frightened, very young rape victim gave this description to the police sketch artist.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MN MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #3


Pensfan
verified Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse

 

[Pensfan]

What is all of this fabulous information that DR has?

Why does he not share it?

Dan Rassier has to be the only adult on Earth who has ever called the sheriff's office because someone turned around in his long driveway (which looks like a rural road) in the daylight. To make this sheriff's call more bizarre, Dan Rassier was a grown MAN when he called the sheriff and not a frightened child.

The behavior of people almost always follows a pattern. This makes me wonder about other bizarre things Dan Rassier has done to involve the sheriff's department in his life.

Pensfan
verified Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse

 

[Pensfan]

Bumping for Jacob...

More food for thought, strictly hypothetical.

Is it possible that the vehicle that DR is claiming he saw was in fact Kevin's?

Two theories (hear me out)

DR claimed that the vehicle he saw on the night of the abduction had a woman (possibly a child) in the passenger seat. Wasn't Kevin accompanied by his girlfriend the night of the abduction?

If DR is in fact telling the truth, as stated above. Possibly Kevin drove up the road leading to DR's house much further than he recalled. Or, DR had to be closer to the abduction site, and NOT in the house, in order to see Kevin's vehicle.

It is frustrating to imagine how much evidence Kevin's vehicle may have destroyed.

Welcome to Websleuths, JerseyJo!
:wagon:

Because I study human behavior, I'd like to know what made Kevin suddenly decide to share his alleged important info years too late. IMO, this says volumes about the reliability of Kevin's info. In addition, the fact that none of the people who were allegedly privilege to this knowledge came forward strongly suggests that it's not reliable information. IMO, Kevin should take get his need for public attention met elsewhere. Suggesting that he take a polygraph at his own expense might encourage him to meet his 'needs' elsewhere.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

Was DNA taken from the raped child in Cold Springs? I'll bet not because Dan is likely impotent. Impotence or premature ejaculation are common in juvenile sex offenders and, IMO, Dan's psyche is likely stuck far below his biological age. The frustrations from an abnormal psychosexual development can cause individuals to be fixated at an earlier developmental stage.

Where facts do you have to support the sex offender accusation? He has no history.

Dan has lived his whole life in the same house ISOLATED from other adults with his very strict and very religious parents. Dan has never dated adult women or men. Ask yourself what is Dan’s sexual preference if it’s not adult men or women?

What makes you believe he is/was isolated from other adults? He has a full time job outside his home, so he's not locked up inside his house 24/7.

Have DR's relationship status, sexual orientation, and religious views ever been public information? He doesn't own anyone an explanation. His lifestyle choices do not make him guilty of a crime.

 

[buffetoflies]

Dan has never dated adult women or men. Ask yourself what is Dan’s sexual preference if it’s not adult men or women?

...maybe he's Asexual

 

[human]

When looking at potential criminals, one has to observe and hypothesize about possibilities

Jerry Sandusky did not have children. It is interesting to me to conjecture that he did not because he was unable to ejaculate with an adult woman. Although Jerry was busy with his hobby, it sure was kept hidden for years, wasn't it? T

It could be that the perp has plenty of access to the abbey and can conduct his unusual deeds there under no scrutiny. After all, the Abbey is filled or was filled with proven sexual deviants.

The facts of lack of ejaculation with deviants is very interesting. It sure may fit in with Jared.

Thanks Pensfan for those insights. Food for thought for sure

 

[human]

I do not think Pensfan was talking about DR's religious views.

She was talking about the parents who attend Mass everyday and have close relationships with the church,