MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5

[human]

human...you're over thinking it. a person cannot see from Tom Thumb to the DR driveway. that's not the point. the point is a perp in a car hanging around the Tom Thumb trolling could have seen the boys turning east off 16th and made the assumption they would head back south on 16th. Of course, if the perp did not know who the boys were then the assumption could be wrong as the perp wouldn't know which neighborhood they actually came from. however, given the reports from residents of the community in the weeks before the abduction, suspicious cars were noticed in various locations on 90th + 91st (16th) avenues so it's reasonable to theorize that the people in these cars could have been at Tom Thumb or on one of the streets and observed the boys on their way to the store.

Before DR, there were several homes close together. Close in terms of country, not city. Can't remember how many. Then a ling way of nothing until DR.

I do not know where Aaron lived. Does anyone?

 

[human]

Yes, that makes sense BUT:

1. perps footprints....any ideas what happened to them? Isn't it unrealistic to think Kevin's tires drove exactly over those footprints?
2. IF DR is telling the truth and 2 of these cars at least took different circular paths turning around...there would be multiple tracks near the farmhouse. I don't understand his car theory....just saying.
3. I would think that cars coming off the pavement don't always use the same turning radius-not exactly so anyway.
4. 1989 picture of investigator spraying the footprints. It looks like a white line is around him....wondering if this is the only area where footprints appeared? If so, does this mean perp + Jacob walked in the grass and then up onto the road and into a car? There also appears on the right side of the pic that tire tracks have a curve to them.

I would say it is highly unlikely that any car could drive exactly in the same tracks as another, especially at night.

The reason I brought up gravel vs. limestone is that gravel sprays all over, especially if a car had been going fast. Limestone compacts and stays in place. Gets almost like concrete.

The driveway surface is a wonder to me as it is hard to imagine either surface leaving much in the line of footprints.

My driveway, unless it is wet, would leave no prints.

I have gravel in some garden areas and the prints would be so indistinct because of what gravel is like. Strange that any footprints existed at all, to me.

 

[cGorg]

Before DR, there were several homes close together. Close in terms of country, not city. Can't remember how many. Then a ling way of nothing until DR.

I do not know where Aaron lived. Does anyone?

I think I read he was 4 miles west or northwest of Jacob....not being from there does that make sense?

 

[cGorg]

I would say it is highly unlikely that any car could drive exactly in the same tracks as another, especially at night.

The reason I brought up gravel vs. limestone is that gravel sprays all over, especially if a car had been going fast. Limestone compacts and stays in place. Gets almost like concrete.

The driveway surface is a wonder to me as it is hard to imagine either surface leaving much in the line of footprints.

My driveway, unless it is wet, would leave no prints.

I have gravel in some garden areas and the prints would be so indistinct because of what gravel is like. Strange that any footprints existed at all, to me.

Good comments. Where I work there is a gravelly(not sure if limestone or gravel or what) parking lot. I drove my car over and over it and walked over it...no footprints but the occasional tire track if there were loose spots of powdery sand. It's been there for decades so very compacted. Other people have driven over it and I could see various different tracks.

 

[shergal]

DR's driveway look like a plain dirt road to me in these pictures - not gravel.

 

[cGorg]

DR's driveway look like a plain dirt road to me in these pictures - not gravel.

The upper left picture(the only one I've ever seen of Jacob's footprints) looks very soft + powdery doesn't it? Very discernible footprints + tire tracks.
The lower left picture is of the approach opposite DR'sdriveway...THAT does appear to be dirt and typically so...as most approaches to farmers fields were dirt while the country roads gravel.

 

[human]

Interesting about the dirt driveway. No way could we ever have dirt driveways where I live. When it rains the mess of a dirt driveway. Wow. It seems like the dirt is quite deep. Very strange to me, the dirt driveway. Even the really poor where I live do not have a dirt driveway. Anyway, that explains it to me. How footprints could be left in the driveway.

It does not appear that the sides of the road have much in the line of a ditch. That is interesting to me as well as all of our roads are ditched here, but it is for the movement of water. No issues with that there? We even have ditches here that are about 6 feet deep in some spots.

It appears that the ditches going down the driveway are rather deep. I am aurprised that DR would drive over one of those ditches.

So, depending on the terrain, it appears someone could drive up on a property and park a car because the ditching appears to be non existant.

ELOC, do you recall anything about the ditching?

 

[human]

DR's driveway look like a plain dirt road to me in these pictures - not gravel.

What is that straight line that is dug into the dirt?

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

What is that straight line that is dug into the dirt?

Are you talking about the upper left picture? Isn't that part of the tire tracks?

 

[shergal]

Yes, tire track if you are talking upper left picture.

 

[human]

Yes, tire track if you are talking upper left picture.

What kind of tires leave a track like that?

I have seen snowmobile tracks leave a line, but never a tire leaving a straight line like that.

Maybe it is because the picture is enhanced?

A also have not looked at tire tracks on a dirt road. My road is gravel and dirt, but the gravel is sinking as usual so maybe I will see some dirt road type tracks.

 

[cGorg]

picture of tire tracks + some footprints by 2 separate compact cars over the course of the last 3 days. conditions extremely dry(no rain for weeks, mid 90's), 1/4" rain yesterday, gravel parking lot

 

[human]

picture of tire tracks + some footprints by 2 separate compact cars over the course of the last 3 days. conditions extremely dry(no rain for weeks, mid 90's), 1/4" rain yesterday, gravel parking lot

Does it seem like the tires leave that straight edge?

I feel all of those cars that DR had going up and down his driveway should have left more traces.

I looked on my road. The gravel is pretty big rocks. At least 1" long it seems mixed in with dirt. The mail carrier drove up to our mailbox and you can see that happened for a few feet, but that's it. The tracks disappear. Rain the last couple of days here.

I wondef where the car tracks went in the pic we are lookng at.

 

[cGorg]

Does it seem like the tires leave that straight edge?

I feel all of those cars that DR had going up and down his driveway should have left more traces.

I looked on my road. The gravel is pretty big rocks. At least 1" long it seems mixed in with dirt. The mail carrier drove up to our mailbox and you can see that happened for a few feet, but that's it. The tracks disappear. Rain the last couple of days here.

I wondef where the car tracks went in the pic we are lookng at.

No straight edge. This parking area is lightly used and very compacted but the tracks that are there although faint....some have been there for a few days. The LE pic of tire tracks + footprints appears to be deeper impressions but other pictures of DR's driveway look like a typical farm driveway. I suppose on a hard surface, tracks will eventually fade due to wind, rain. If Kevin's tracks are so prominent I have considered the possibilities of either the other cars drove very close to his tracks OR there are no other cars. The one LE pic is too small to know for sure....

 

[cGorg]

One other item regarding these tracks + footprints: ELOCsoul researched the telephone pole situation from 1989 to present. The first pole at the junction of DR's driveway and the pavement is now gone. Jacob's footprints were stated to have ended at the 2nd pole of 1989 (120 feet, 40 yards). It is just assumed that Jacob's footprints would begin at the 1st pole(1989) and proceed to the 2nd pole(1989) and if the abductor was holding Jacob's arm then the perp's footprints would have to be there as well. And if the driveway was impressionable enough to see Kevin's tracks + Jacob's footprints so distinctly....then where's the rest of the trail? I can't believe that 4 cars would all have the same wheel base let alone follow each others tracks EXACTLY or that only 1 set of footprints would be visible. Unless the driveway is unequal in its compactness? There may not be an answer for all of this unless LE has a bunch of photographic + plaster cast evidence in their possession.

 

[human]

Excellent points cGorg!

 

[ELOCsoul]

Interesting about the dirt driveway. No way could we ever have dirt driveways where I live. When it rains the mess of a dirt driveway. Wow. It seems like the dirt is quite deep. Very strange to me, the dirt driveway. Even the really poor where I live do not have a dirt driveway. Anyway, that explains it to me. How footprints could be left in the driveway.

It does not appear that the sides of the road have much in the line of a ditch. That is interesting to me as well as all of our roads are ditched here, but it is for the movement of water. No issues with that there? We even have ditches here that are about 6 feet deep in some spots.

It appears that the ditches going down the driveway are rather deep. I am aurprised that DR would drive over one of those ditches.

So, depending on the terrain, it appears someone could drive up on a property and park a car because the ditching appears to be non existant.

ELOC, do you recall anything about the ditching?

The ditches there are relatively shallow, but I don't recall whether or not it appeared a car could easily drive from DR's driveway to the road. That being said - the road is now paved, and it was likely raised when that road work was done. So the ditch could very well have been easily driven thru back in '89, and not so much today.

 

[human]

Tears. Worth reading again and again


http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/31/u...r-hangs-on-to-hope.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

 

[Wisdom]

I’m amazed at all the excellent sleuthing by all of you on this site over the years so I finally decided to join. I am the same age as Jacob and lived a few hours south of St Joseph when this happened back in 1989. I remember how fast it hit national attention and how it really changed how parents thought about the world not being so innocent for their kids anymore. It’s always been really hard for me to accept that a person can just vanish like that without any solid evidence being left behind. I just pray that the Wetterlings get some kind of closure because the not knowing has to be the worst feeling ever.

After all the research I’ve done on this case I really believe the police have named the correct “person of interest”. In my opinion this is what probably took place that Sunday night. I believe it was a last minute impulse decision. I believe POI was out jogging like he mentioned and was probably up ahead of the boys close to his driveway when he noticed the bouncing flashlights coming up the road behind him so he decided to take cover in the ditch to see what they were up to when they went by which would also explain Trevor hearing a noise in the ditch on the way to Tom Thumb. After they went by and him realizing they were young kids I believe he had an impulse to do something when they came back but wasn’t sure what yet so he ran to the house in a hurry and grabbed a make shift nylon stocking of some sort to use as a mask and also possibly a gun but I still doubt he actually had one but who knows…then he headed back out to the area to wait for their return and we all know what happened at that point except the most obvious unknown which is what did he do with Jacob after that? Just too many obvious signs that point straight to him as being the person responsible. I’m guessing it’s a huge burden that he deals with everyday and wishes he could turn back the clock but he can’t so he’s just stuck in a big state of denial of some sort. Something that really bothers me is that he’s been named a poi and most of the public thinks he’s guilty but he never really seems extremely upset or angry about that like most people would be. All just my opinion of course.

 

[Cappuccino]

Wisdom, what do you think about motive? We've all pretty much assumed that Jacob was abducted by a paedophile, but I get the sense from your post, (although you haven't openly said), that you think it was some kind of prank gone wrong.