Seriously? Sounds made up. A box with a kid in it would be awfully large. But if true, bizarro!
MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5
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Seriously? Sounds made up. A box with a kid in it would be awfully large. But if true, bizarro!
If the tape is on utube, why would he want to purchase it?
I have NO IDEA other than the tapes were made in the late 90's....not sure when YouTube came to be but thinking later than that. I am simply waiting to see what she posts in October....it seems the audios she posted were only portions of the actual recordings so I'm anticipating there's more available. I think DM's voice is consistent. Seitz's voice varies a bit but it may be due to age or recording issues. The other voices sound distinct as well so I'm thinking the voices themselves are separate individuals and not one person doing several voices.
Dum-Dum Sucker
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Gosh, I had never seen this. Thank you for posting it.Seeing Patty looking so young,,,,,,and so devastated.........and Jacob, so vibrant.......ugh.
Dum-Dum Sucker
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Heart wrenching watching Aaron.........
I think she has a nice little money making scheme going.
She states right on her blog there will be products and services available on her website and 10% of these profits will fund "social change" - so evidently the other 90% support her?
From her blog:
"Recently my business partners and I created a social enterprise called vocnow.com. Vocnow stands for Vision of Change Now. Ten percent of the profits for the products and services available on the site support social change. We realized we needed a clearer picture of the trauma happening in Central Minnesota so we created the Trauma Identification Project and vocnow.com to fund it."
yes, no, maybe.....unless a person has a guaranteed passive income, it would be difficult to spend one's days researching these issues. It's possible she won't make much money as people don't have to purchase anything OR she could make alot of money....it's irrelevant to me as at least somebody is digging in. Obviously, she thinks the abduction of Jacob Wetterling as well as sexual abuse in general goes deeper than appears on the surface. Whatever the case may be, I'm all for someone delving into these issues and posting the information. We have the luxury of reviewing the information and making up our own minds. If it's all bogus, eventually people will not support it. Just my opinion.
Bogus or not, there are legitimate agencies that deal with these issues.
Ones that have credibility and access to the police so they can coordinate to get testimony that will be accepted by courts.
There are places that get specific training to properly interview children so as not to taint testimony.
As a teacher, I wrote down what a child said and reported it, but the experts interviewed the children. No leading questions from me to screw things up. This is a delicate issue with children.
Many issues such as with the McMartin preschool. Then there was the horrendous case of multiple sexual abuse in southern Minnesota. Jordan Minnesota.
One article, but there are plenty more. This situation was used in training manuals for what not to do
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20088952,00.html
Ones that have credibility and access to the police so they can coordinate to get testimony that will be accepted by courts.
There are places that get specific training to properly interview children so as not to taint testimony.
As a teacher, I wrote down what a child said and reported it, but the experts interviewed the children. No leading questions from me to screw things up. This is a delicate issue with children.
Many issues such as with the McMartin preschool. Then there was the horrendous case of multiple sexual abuse in southern Minnesota. Jordan Minnesota.
One article, but there are plenty more. This situation was used in training manuals for what not to do
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20088952,00.html
This is from a poster on another case
Hi all. I'm new to this group. I stumbled across you guys when searching for more info on Willow Long when she went missing and of course I can't tear myself away. I just received my permission to post (been waiting for over 24 hours) and I'd like to shed some light on some questions that were posed in the #2 and #3 discusions. Not sure how to quote those from here or if I even can?
A few people had asked why the search K9s didn't hit on the possible crime scenes? Mainly because at the time thats not what they were being asked to look for. Search K9s fall into 2 main categories: Live Find & Cadaver
Some K9s are certified in both disciplines however they are instructed as to what they should be looking for when they begin their search. A well trained cross functional K9 should not alert on cadaver when they are searching for live. It's my understanding that the Search K9s were used at the beginning of the search for a missing child, thought to be living, so that explains why they may not have alerted on cadaver.
It's not unheard of, though for a dog to alert on cadaver even when searching for live, IF they've been exposed to cadaver. But this is the reason FEMA doesn't want cross trained dogs on disasters when time is of the essence and they are looking for survivors.
Hi all. I'm new to this group. I stumbled across you guys when searching for more info on Willow Long when she went missing and of course I can't tear myself away. I just received my permission to post (been waiting for over 24 hours) and I'd like to shed some light on some questions that were posed in the #2 and #3 discusions. Not sure how to quote those from here or if I even can?
A few people had asked why the search K9s didn't hit on the possible crime scenes? Mainly because at the time thats not what they were being asked to look for. Search K9s fall into 2 main categories: Live Find & Cadaver
Some K9s are certified in both disciplines however they are instructed as to what they should be looking for when they begin their search. A well trained cross functional K9 should not alert on cadaver when they are searching for live. It's my understanding that the Search K9s were used at the beginning of the search for a missing child, thought to be living, so that explains why they may not have alerted on cadaver.
It's not unheard of, though for a dog to alert on cadaver even when searching for live, IF they've been exposed to cadaver. But this is the reason FEMA doesn't want cross trained dogs on disasters when time is of the essence and they are looking for survivors.
In Jacob's case people have mentioned it being too dry out for the dogs and the possibility of Jacob being picked up and carried thru the grass after his last foot print. I'm just wondering if since LE thought he was taken away by car if they just used the dogs to verify the scent up until that last print / tire track or if the dogs would've kept going past that point if they picked up on anything?
Mark Spitz won a bunch of Olympic Gold medals for swimming. Nowadays, girls in high schools swim that fast because of training improvements,
I wonder what kind of training dogs got back in 1989?
Seems like crime is more horrific and they have profilers, so I wonder if dog training has changed a lot?
I wonder what kind of training dogs got back in 1989?
Seems like crime is more horrific and they have profilers, so I wonder if dog training has changed a lot?
thenotebook
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Do we have pictures of the Bahner's (the dad and the sons)? I read through this entire thread but I don't think any were posted. Just curious if any of them fit the description of the perp and the sketch.
I've thought about this case a lot the past couple of days. Right now I'm leaning towards there being a vehicle involved, even though LE has dismissed that. I think it's entirely plausable that the man waited for Trevor and Aaron to run far enough way before actually starting the car and driving off. They were running for their lives, and it probably only took a few moments for them to get deep enough into the woods, or even through to the other side.
I'm stuck on the vehicle because of how abruptly the footprints ended and it not being DR. I think it was one of the other suspects mentioned in this thread.
I also think Jared's abductor and Jacob's abductor are the same person (which again, leads me to believe that he used a vehicle). The low gravely voice, and the whole "don't look back or I'll shoot". That is a very specific choice of words and I don't think two entirely unrelated perps would choose to say the exact same phrase in two abductions that happened almost a year apart. It's just too big of a coincidence. It has to be the same person.
Also, it's been mentioned that the vehicle used in Jared's case was found and searched. Did this happen BEFORE Jacob was taken? I'm assuming yes.
I've thought about this case a lot the past couple of days. Right now I'm leaning towards there being a vehicle involved, even though LE has dismissed that. I think it's entirely plausable that the man waited for Trevor and Aaron to run far enough way before actually starting the car and driving off. They were running for their lives, and it probably only took a few moments for them to get deep enough into the woods, or even through to the other side.
I'm stuck on the vehicle because of how abruptly the footprints ended and it not being DR. I think it was one of the other suspects mentioned in this thread.
I also think Jared's abductor and Jacob's abductor are the same person (which again, leads me to believe that he used a vehicle). The low gravely voice, and the whole "don't look back or I'll shoot". That is a very specific choice of words and I don't think two entirely unrelated perps would choose to say the exact same phrase in two abductions that happened almost a year apart. It's just too big of a coincidence. It has to be the same person.
Also, it's been mentioned that the vehicle used in Jared's case was found and searched. Did this happen BEFORE Jacob was taken? I'm assuming yes.
I know the mask subject has been beat to death but it really is an important clue in this case...not just the fact that there was one but also the type that was used..most likely a black nylon stocking. Think about this for a minute....If a vehicle was used, if the same person as the Jared case were responsible, and if they had a gun....it would be safe to say an abduction of some sort was well thought out in advance by this person...still could be the person was out trolling and got lucky these kids were out that night but the big question is why on earth would he use a nylon stocking for a mask? Anyone that would be planning something like that would just use a ski mask...something much easier to put on and take off and deal with in general in my opinion. It was October and very nice weather wise so most people..person of interest included...probably still had their winter gear packed away in a closet yet. I'm guessing the black nylon was sitting out and grabbed quickly out of convience since the person was probably in a hurry to get back out to the end of the driveway. Again just an opinion.
posts #867(thenotebook) and #868(Wisdom) respectively, reflect the complexity + perplexity of this case as well as the dual theories IMHO. The little details that may match other cases (or not) give one pause as to 100% surety of either theory. I still lean towards the car theory but do not discount the possibility of DR being involved. There's always the possibility of some details being simply coincidencesNylon mask) or mistakes (as in the case of LE discounting the car theory now-my opinion). They could be wrong OR they could still be looking at other suspects...we don't know. Obviously LE is focussed on DR as are alot of posters on this forum. One of the things that sticks in my mind is there's alot of extraneous information outside of DR that is a part of the case: the various cars seen by residents in the weeks before the abduction, the other molestation cases in the area, the halfway houses for sex offenders in the area, Jared's abduction + release,.....that's alot of nefarious activity for a small town. Not to mention the activities at St Johns. I'm in a creative field and my mind has been trained to entertain lots of ideas-possibilities.....it's hard for me to say: "Yep, DR did it"...when there's so much else to delve into.
Even the mask has two conflicting stories. On Nancy Grace's special, Sheriff Sanner told them it was a ski mask. Aaron and Trevor have said it looked like a black nylon - it was kind of bunched up in back. It seems as if every detail on the case has an alternate version.
I definitely agree there is a lot of info out there, but I also can't discount the possibility of DR's involvement - just because of the local knowledge needed. Knowing a ditch was there for them to put their bikes in, knowing there were woods to tell them to run off to, etc. If you were a total stranger to those parts and it was such a black night, you would not know those things. And, of course, DR's odd comments always keep him in the running.
I definitely agree there is a lot of info out there, but I also can't discount the possibility of DR's involvement - just because of the local knowledge needed. Knowing a ditch was there for them to put their bikes in, knowing there were woods to tell them to run off to, etc. If you were a total stranger to those parts and it was such a black night, you would not know those things. And, of course, DR's odd comments always keep him in the running.
The nylon stocking or ski mask is a telling detail and a conflicting one. I trust the boys' description but also remember a story of Aaron later being scared by a neighbor boy wearing a ski mask. A confirmation on this would be helpful....I think the boys would be correct and others may be simply saying 'ski mask' loosely. However...there's a big difference visually...and the effect of each is different upon the observer. The nylon stocking IMHO is more frightening as it distorts the face and the eyes are not seen. The ski mask while more familiar exposes the eyes...the windows to the soul. I lean towards the nylon stocking. AND...is there a still frame in an interview of DR in his house with a nylon stocking in the background? It's been mentioned here but not sure if it's a proven fact. Regarding knowing the terrain....I agree, a total stranger just arriving in town wouldn't know the terrain which is why I think the perp(s) had frequented the area. DR is the obvious choice in this case but is that terrain really that complicated? Anyone from a rural area is familiar with ditches, gravel roads, paved roads as well as maneuvering in the dark. As a young boy, my friends and I would throw apples at high school kids in cars....a chase would ensue...and we ran through very dark backyards of people's houses...backyards we hadn't been through before- through trees and such...and made our way. Later, in high school, many parties were held in the countryside in the dark....it was navigable. In Jacob's case, it has been established that the night was extremely dark without moon or stars and of course NOTHING between DR's driveway and Jacob's home. This of course would be exceptional as opposed to a 'normal' night....which I conclude would require a foreknowledge of the area.
The nylon stocking thing... DR had commented that his mother never even wore black nylons in some interview. Then one of the TV stations did a walk through of his home with cameras and he was there, showing them the various rooms. I saw this on TV myself, it's not hearsay.
He was standing in one room talking and over his shoulder you could see into their bathroom, and hanging from the shower curtain rod was a pair of black nylons (drying, I assume). So lots of people caught that, because he had specifically said his mother never wore them. It would have either been WCCO (4), KSTP (5) or KARE (11) I would guess. I don't know if that video is available anymore. Stations could be checked with.
Obviously, Bahners or any other local suspects would also know the lay of the land. I haven't totally ruled out a car being used. I just think it was someone local.
He was standing in one room talking and over his shoulder you could see into their bathroom, and hanging from the shower curtain rod was a pair of black nylons (drying, I assume). So lots of people caught that, because he had specifically said his mother never wore them. It would have either been WCCO (4), KSTP (5) or KARE (11) I would guess. I don't know if that video is available anymore. Stations could be checked with.
Obviously, Bahners or any other local suspects would also know the lay of the land. I haven't totally ruled out a car being used. I just think it was someone local.
The stocking mask is a common tool of the criminal...has always been. It can be a tool of opportunity or a tool of planning used for disguise and/or a weapon. I found this site:
http://armedrobberadvice.com which features videos of various stocking masks (different colors and their effects), a ski mask, and finally a black stocking mask with a ski mask over the top.
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