That's a good idea....I read a little ways back but apparently not far enough to find the original quote. Might be a way to find out if Gary is legit.
MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5
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That's a good idea....I read a little ways back but apparently not far enough to find the original quote. Might be a way to find out if Gary is legit.
Cappuccino
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If there's anything that should be passed along to LE, somebody who lives in the local area would be the best person to do it. Or at least somebody who lives in Minnesota.
KeepHopeAlive
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I found this site where you can submit tips:
http://www.co.stearns.mn.us/LawPublicSafety/SheriffServices/CrimePrevention/SubmitaTip
I believe this was the older guy shown originally on the poster. (Anyone who has a poster and knows otherwise, feel free to correct.)
I noticed in Joys Blog that Jarred remembered his attacker as having "...big ears that stuck out in the back."
ELOCsoul
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Below is a link to an interesting website. Most notable is an age-progressed photo that I've not seen before (2008).
http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMC731065e1.jpg
Also - for those looking for more information about Vernon Seitz, there are several entries that appear to be copy / pastes from news articles. There are details here I have not read before about Seitz and the investigation into him.
http://projectjason.org/forums/topic/1354-missing-boy-jacob-wetterling-mn-10221989/
http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMC731065e1.jpg
Also - for those looking for more information about Vernon Seitz, there are several entries that appear to be copy / pastes from news articles. There are details here I have not read before about Seitz and the investigation into him.
http://projectjason.org/forums/topic/1354-missing-boy-jacob-wetterling-mn-10221989/
ELOCsoul
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The thing about any sketch of Jacob's abductor that should quell enthusiasm goes back to fact that he was wearing a mask. The guy at the Tom Thumb had to be somewhat "off" to be acting as he did - I have a hard time believing that he would have the wherewithal to plan an abduction, wear a mask, etc and get away with it. JMO.
Haven't seen that age progression one before.
I wonder where Seitz got videos of Jacob showing him before he was kidnapped.
Can you imagine how many disturbed people have contacted the Wetterlings?
Yes, the old guy at Tom Thumb...doesn't seem spry enough to carry out an abduction I agree. And the mask on Jacob's abductor....definitely a telling clue.
Based upon the last 1 1/2 days postings + 'Topix' Gary's comments here's a simple theory:
Jared's abductor is Jacob's abductor. Jared's abductor followed him from hockey practice, he knew the Kraemers were Jared's neighbors(some preliminary planning/research perhaps?) and used that as a means to ask a question of Jared-'where do the Kraemers live?' Jared, thus distracted, the perp moved in and forced him into his car.
Jared's abductor may have scoped out Jared at hockey practice and thus was in the hockey facility enough to fear that Jared may recognize him.
Jared's abductor began looking for another victim, obviously he could not abduct Jared again as Jared could identify him...he frequented the hockey arenas and spotted Jacob. He was able to find Jacob's name and possibly he saw Jerry Wetterling as well? From that he could find their home address. A simple drive to Wetterling's address would give him a sense of the terrain. By definition he is a 'grabber' and so may troll for victims. If 'Topix Gary is correct on the 'father-son' sketches....is it possible that 'father + son' were at Tom Thumb together...trolling? And that by chance Jacob, Trevor, and Aaron happened upon them? Jared's abductor(son) having scoped out Jacob at hockey practice and verified his address knew where Jacob, Trevor, and Aaron would be returning. Scary old man(father) went into the store to check it out....then exited the store and joined the son in his blue car. Father + son drove south on 16th, turned left on DR's driveway, parked at the second pole and waited. The son exited vehicle, wore a mask as to not repeat mistake with Jared, stopped the boys at the mailbox, sent the other 2 boys home, abducted Jacob, placed him in the blue car and father not knowing the neighborhood, drove down(east) on DR's driveway...ALL the way to the farmhouse then returned to 16th, turned right and exited the crime scene.
Regarding Jared's abductor and the sketch....for some reason he let Jared go even though Jared could identify him. Why would he do that? Despite the obvious violence and the obvious criminality/evil of what he was doing, he let Jared go. Is it possible there is a trace of benevolence(just a trace or doubt) in the sketch?
AND, having said that, is there more than a trace of evil in the 'scary old man' sketch? Could it be that the 'scary old man' killed Jacob? Why else would he return to the store weeks later and declare: 'they'll never find that boy'?
People say things all of the time. They have opinions. I don't see any big deal about the guy saying that.
Why would anyone be hanging around out there at 9 at night waiting for Jacob to come by? The chances of that are really zero. It was just a fluke that it turned out the way it did.
Aaron said that the boys rode their bikes during the day, not at night.
Pervs go where the kids are. Being by a skating rink is a good idea if you want a kid walking alone at night.
Why would anyone be hanging around out there at 9 at night waiting for Jacob to come by? The chances of that are really zero. It was just a fluke that it turned out the way it did.
Aaron said that the boys rode their bikes during the day, not at night.
Pervs go where the kids are. Being by a skating rink is a good idea if you want a kid walking alone at night.
The guy says 'they'll never find that boy' and that's no big deal?
Why would somebody make the effort to return to that store and say that?
Why would anyone be hanging around out there at 9 at night waiting for Jacob to come by? The chances of that are really zero. It was just a fluke that it turned out the way it did.
That's my point....it was just a fluke. You answered your own question.
Aaron said that the boys rode their bikes during the day, not at night.
Not sure what you mean here? It doesn't matter....it was just a theory. Just trying to theorize the comments made by 'Topix Gary'. It(the theory) doesn't explain the sound in the grass heard by Aaron.
Pervs go where the kids are. Being by a skating rink is a good idea if you want a kid walking alone at night.
yes...I suppose a perp would frequent the hockey rinks to see what kids are there, and yes, see which kids walk home as opposed to getting a ride with parents. Not sure of your point.
I don't believe Jared & Jacob's abductor are the same person. All the sketches that were done based on Jared's case and the Tom Thumb guy were part of what threw this case in the wrong direction from the start in my opinion considering Jacob's abductor had a mask on. Remember all the luck falling into DR's lap?..I believe this was all part of that and also the infamous tire tracks from the car that was never there. I also believe LE follows this site and have probably followed up along time ago on this father/son and anything Red Carpet related. And still after all this time they name DR as a POI...it really is very VERY telling! They must have some kind of hard evidence to support that otherwise they wouldn't have done that. I'm guessing they have had some interesting conversations with DR and possibly even letting him know a little about what they have on him so I'm guessing that's why DR doesn't file all kinds of lawsuits & make more trouble for LE like any innocent person would try. He obviously knows he's guilty and he knows LE doesn't have enough on him to prove it.
The comments by the older guy.
I am old. If you pay attention, you will see that older people are not shy and talk in the store and wherever.
There was a poster of Jacob. The guy gives his opinion which is the opinion of many people. I see nothing sinister or telling in it whatsoever.
Since cGorg is not from the area or Minnesota and I assume you are a person in your 30's, you have no way to know what the publicity was surrounding Jacob.
There were billboards donated, vigils, searches, radio stations playing his favorite song, TV news, ads that were full page in the free weekly shopper, reward. Posters everywhere, and I mean everywhere. We lived and breathed Jacob information for weeks.
I am sure it was the topic of conversation for many people. We had never heard of or seen anything like this abduction in Minnesota.
To not comment or be interested would be strange in my view.
I am old. If you pay attention, you will see that older people are not shy and talk in the store and wherever.
There was a poster of Jacob. The guy gives his opinion which is the opinion of many people. I see nothing sinister or telling in it whatsoever.
Since cGorg is not from the area or Minnesota and I assume you are a person in your 30's, you have no way to know what the publicity was surrounding Jacob.
There were billboards donated, vigils, searches, radio stations playing his favorite song, TV news, ads that were full page in the free weekly shopper, reward. Posters everywhere, and I mean everywhere. We lived and breathed Jacob information for weeks.
I am sure it was the topic of conversation for many people. We had never heard of or seen anything like this abduction in Minnesota.
To not comment or be interested would be strange in my view.
Wisdom,you use the words 'believe' and 'guessing' in the beginning of alot of your statements. I 'believe' and am 'guessing' a car could have been involved but have not been able to prove it. I 'believe' and am 'guessing' that DR is a logical POI but I can't prove that either. My point is not to be snarky but to say everything about this case is circumstantial so am looking for logical, provable clues and/or connections. If you're certain that LE has their man and are only waiting for a physical piece of evidence or for DR to slip up then why investigate any other possibilities? Simply wait. I don't have your assuredness of DR as culprit or LE having the goods on him. Maybe it's because I'm not from the immediate area and was not aware of Jacob's case until a year ago. Your perspective is much closer. However,there's ALOT of information outside the sphere of DR and if DR is indeed the perp then all of that information is irrelevant. Somebody's lying...DR? the 'tapes'? 'Topix Gary'? The monks? Proving or disproving any theories is a good thing to eliminate possibilities and hone in on the truth if it's possible. All of this is my opinion only and respectfully stated. I appreciate your candor + perspective....just looking for something more solid if it can be had.
I'm kinda old depending on your perspective (early 50's). I am 4 hours away from St Joseph. In 1989 I was living in the desert southwest and honestly I didn't know much about Jacob's case until a year ago so I don't have the physical connection as you + Wisdom do to the area. Anyway, I realize people blurt out things but it struck me that the old guy by his mere presence scared a number of people in St Joseph + Avon and then to say what he said made it all the more scary. That's it.
cGorg,
Looking at the way I use words isn't going to do you or anyone for that matter any good simply because I do not word things very well. One thing you will pick up on is I will tell you exactly what I think and feel because i don't believe in sugar coating anything since a turd rolled in sugar is still a turd. We all would like something more solid but I am choosing to put a little faith in LE. They cleared Kevin and doubt a vehicle was used. So if you take the vehicle out who is your top suspect??
Looking at the way I use words isn't going to do you or anyone for that matter any good simply because I do not word things very well. One thing you will pick up on is I will tell you exactly what I think and feel because i don't believe in sugar coating anything since a turd rolled in sugar is still a turd. We all would like something more solid but I am choosing to put a little faith in LE. They cleared Kevin and doubt a vehicle was used. So if you take the vehicle out who is your top suspect??
Yes, that's good that you are to the point. I like it. As I posted earlier, if there is no vehicle, there is only 1 conclusion to be drawn.
I wish LE could release even a little more information on why they cleared Kevin and threw out the vehicle being used so quickly. I try to be open minded but it's so hard for me to get past all the quirky things surrounding DR. Him mentioning the boxes he had in his car that were not searched when he was leaving has always bothered me. I'm guessing he expected them to search them all so it's very doubtful Jacob was in any of them but by him saying that after the fact it's almost like he wished he would've known they were not going to search them because then he could've moved a body off scene much easier than the way he had to deal with the situation.
midwestphd
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I feel the same way about the "they'll never find that boy" comment made by the "creepy" old guy. It's hard to believe that someone involved with the case or with inside knowledge of the case would say something like that.
I do think gut reactions can be telling, so not being there myself to see and hear the creepy old guy, I can't discount the bad vibe he seemed to give off. Yet, following the abduction people would naturally be more suspicious and paranoid, especially around strangers. Was he truly creepy, or did he seem creepy because everyone had their guard up?
I've mentioned this before, but I wonder if Jacob's kidnapping could have been a kind of copy cat crime. Did DR read about Jared and copy the M.O.? Perhaps it was a spur-of-the-moment decision? There are enough similarities to suspect a link, and yet there are some marked differences--the mask being one. According to DR's own statements, he "keeps files on everything." With his proximity to the school and to the area, he had to have heard about Jared. And he knew the perp had not been caught. Could have been attempt at misdirection, or even just something done out of sheer panic. He didn't have a plan, so he copied one. And sadly, if this is what happened, it worked.
:twocents:
I do think gut reactions can be telling, so not being there myself to see and hear the creepy old guy, I can't discount the bad vibe he seemed to give off. Yet, following the abduction people would naturally be more suspicious and paranoid, especially around strangers. Was he truly creepy, or did he seem creepy because everyone had their guard up?
I've mentioned this before, but I wonder if Jacob's kidnapping could have been a kind of copy cat crime. Did DR read about Jared and copy the M.O.? Perhaps it was a spur-of-the-moment decision? There are enough similarities to suspect a link, and yet there are some marked differences--the mask being one. According to DR's own statements, he "keeps files on everything." With his proximity to the school and to the area, he had to have heard about Jared. And he knew the perp had not been caught. Could have been attempt at misdirection, or even just something done out of sheer panic. He didn't have a plan, so he copied one. And sadly, if this is what happened, it worked.
:twocents:
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