MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5

[Jbrown324320]

Jacob was the last one picked, so the boys probably didn't see the guy and how he handled Jacob. I still am not sure if a car was used or not.
Kids have awesome memories, but not in times of extreme fear.
We also don't know how long it took the boys to run the 100 yards before they looked back. If the car went up toward the convenience store, they would have most likely seen brake lights. And if the car went down towards Jacob's house, they would have most likely seen it speed by. Did the road Jacob was biking on have an outlet? Was there two ways to get to the highway from the street? Or did they have to go up towards the convenience store?

 

[human]

Jacob was the last one picked, so the boys probably didn't see the guy and how he handled Jacob. I still am not sure if a car was used or not.
Kids have awesome memories, but not in times of extreme fear.
We also don't know how long it took the boys to run the 100 yards before they looked back. If the car went up toward the convenience store, they would have most likely seen brake lights. And if the car went down towards Jacob's house, they would have most likely seen it speed by. Did the road Jacob was biking on have an outlet? Was there two ways to get to the highway from the street? Or did they have to go up towards the convenience store?

The car would have had to go down the driveway and no way did a car drive without lights.

Try it if you dare on a dark road.

How far could anyone see from where they were-- the boys? Certainly not far down the road. There is a hill.

These conversations remind me of when I wanted my hubby to move a piano. I felt it could around a doorway. Hubby said it was impossible.

The piano was on wheels. He was right. It was impossible.

The best thing to do is to go to a similar situation if not the actual spot.

How far can you see when there is a hill and vegetation?

Some people like my hubby who is very good at physics and geometry can visualize stuff in three D because he understands mathematical principles.

Me--- I have to see it.

 

[cGorg]

Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

The boys did NOT see him drag Jacob in any direction. They looked back after running and Jacob and the man were gone.

That's interesting. I googled 100 yard dash for boys. A high school runner can run that in 10-12 seconds so a 10 + 11 year old would be slower of course....say 15-18 seconds. That's a quick disappearance for the perp + Jacob.

 

[cGorg]

If he dragged him, wouldn't there be signs on the vegetation? Broken, smashed vegetation as well as the huge signs of a car parked on vegetation?

One would think so although the conditions were dry so impressions would be faint. If you look on google earth you can see tire tracks in DR's yard just north of the driveway...most likely from tractors and/or mowers. If it could be proven conclusively that a car was not involved then you're left with only 1 conclusion. However, if DR had an accomplice or if someone indirectly associated with him had a car then the car theory may work as the person in the car needn't worry about anybody in the house and would only have to wait long enough for the other 2 boys to get home.

If DR is not the perp, then the car perp had not only to get in place but also exit without being seen. Headlights + tail lights would be visible as too dark to drive without them. If the blue car that DR stated he saw was the perp, then why drive through the farmstead? Why not turn around in the grassy area near the curve of the driveway?

 

[human]

I don't mean impressions into the ground, I mean flattened vegetation. A car and tires moving are going to flatten and break vegetation

If it was so dark out, it would be easy to disappear

 

[shergal]

Jacob was the last one picked, so the boys probably didn't see the guy and how he handled Jacob. I still am not sure if a car was used or not.
Kids have awesome memories, but not in times of extreme fear.
We also don't know how long it took the boys to run the 100 yards before they looked back. If the car went up toward the convenience store, they would have most likely seen brake lights. And if the car went down towards Jacob's house, they would have most likely seen it speed by. Did the road Jacob was biking on have an outlet? Was there two ways to get to the highway from the street? Or did they have to go up towards the convenience store?

You have to go towards the convenience store (north) to get to the highway, there is no outlet up on the south end of the road, it's a dead end.

There was, however, another exit if you were on foot, a walking/running path north of DR's driveway up near his house that cut across fields to the Del-Win ballroom back then, because DR has said himself he took that route earlier that day when out running. Wouldn't it be interesting if when he really took that route was later that night carrying a knocked out Jacob? Not sure where he would have hidden Jacob though, because they used the Del-Win later that night - after midnight - as headquarters for the search. You can see a faint line where that path was from those old 1989 pictures of the area. (I'll see if I can locate one of those.)

 

[shergal]

Here's a photo showing where the De-Win Ballroom used to be. It looks far away from the DR farm, but is only about 3 blocks. In October, fields would have been plowed, so I don't think a car could have gone through back there, but certainly someone running could.

You can see the faint line coming from Rassier's fields down between the Del-Win and the current Armory location. It actually widens into a road and continues out to the highway.

 

[shergal]

That's interesting. I googled 100 yard dash for boys. A high school runner can run that in 10-12 seconds so a 10 + 11 year old would be slower of course....say 15-18 seconds. That's a quick disappearance for the perp + Jacob.

I think just being 100 yards away would prevent you from seeing anyone, just because it was so dark out.

 

[JerseyJo]

Here's a photo showing where the De-Win Ballroom used to be. It looks far away from the DR farm, but is only about 3 blocks. In October, fields would have been plowed, so I don't think a car could have gone through back there, but certainly someone running could.

You can see the faint line coming from Rassier's fields down between the Del-Win and the current Armory location. It actually widens into a road and continues out to the highway.

Shergal...I'm going to ask a stupid question now, and apologize in advance (I'm not very good with directions). Looking at the image you posted. If you were on 16th Avenue, with DR's farm on the right side...would you have to go towards the Del-Win Ballroom to go to Jacob's home?

Thank you.

 

[shergal]

No, Jersey, Jacob's home is off this map. You would go south (down off the bottom of this map) and then left (off this map) to get to Jacob's home.

 

[cGorg]

You have to go towards the convenience store (north) to get to the highway, there is no outlet up on the south end of the road, it's a dead end.

There was, however, another exit if you were on foot, a walking/running path north of DR's driveway up near his house that cut across fields to the Del-Win ballroom back then, because DR has said himself he took that route earlier that day when out running. Wouldn't it be interesting if when he really took that route was later that night carrying a knocked out Jacob? Not sure where he would have hidden Jacob though, because they used the Del-Win later that night - after midnight - as headquarters for the search. You can see a faint line where that path was from those old 1989 pictures of the area. (I'll see if I can locate one of those.)

This run of his was described in Joy's blog....seemed odd to me. Paraphrasing here but he said if he wasn't typing on index cards he was running for a good part of the day. Well...that route isn't very long...especially for a marathon runner. Why did he initially proceed north towards the Del-Win? Looking for something? Found it coincidental that the route looped the opposite way of the boys' path. He did state he ran before supper which is a couple of hours before the boys' trip to the store....but maybe it was actually later? I'm not totally convinced of DR's guilt but these are the things that give me pause.

 

[cGorg]

The Topix guy has to be referring to the picture of the older man in Tom Thumb and the guy in the hat who's been around forever, because he says, "When I looked at the poster" - those are the 2 pics that were on the poster.

shergal, do you have a copy of that poster? I'm wondering which of the 4 'scary old man' sketches would apply? There was initially 3 and then they combined the 3 for a 4th sketch. I'm wondering if there is similarities between the 'scary old man' and Jared's suspect sketch.

 

[shergal]

No, I don't have a copy of the poster handy, although we do have one somewhere in storage. (We lived in a different house in 1989 and some stuff never got unpacked when we moved.) But I know which guy it was that was on the poster, the kind of droopy faced older guy. I'll see if I can find a pic.

 

[shergal]

I believe this was the older guy shown originally on the poster. (Anyone who has a poster and knows otherwise, feel free to correct.)

 

[cGorg]

I believe this was the older guy shown originally on the poster. (Anyone who has a poster and knows otherwise, feel free to correct.)

thanks shergal! wow....that is a very realistic sketch. I've seen it many times before but never really studied it. Looking at it enlarged and on its own...it looks real. How could the sketch artist get this so real? I have wondered about this 'scary old man'....is he integral to the case or simply a happenstance and an observing bystander to the whole situation? If he indeed said 2 weeks after the abduction while visiting the Tom Thumb again: "They'll never find that boy"......something there? or just a scary person making a snied + insensitive comment?

 

[cGorg]

It says the suspect (this bus driving son) died though. So no one would be able to question him anymore. I agree, send it to LE, they should be able to get info on who posted that.

which one died? are you sure? initially, he says 'suspects'...so is it the father or son who died?

 

[shergal]

which one died? are you sure? initially, he says 'suspects'...so is it the father or son who died?

I'm not really sure which one he was referring to here, cGorg. He does say "(suspect)" after the son's name. But it's not really clear which one died.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/st-cloud-mn/TKMOC8OA1GE8A1V9C

"There was a composit drawing made of 2 people of interest in the case. That drawing was so precise, that it was just like they took a picture, of the 2 suspect's. When I looked at the poster, I had a gut feeling I knew the 2 people, on the poster. It bothered me so much, I had to go back, and look at the drawing again. I looked at the eye's, and blam, it hit me. It was a picture of the father & son. The son (Suspect) used to work for a local nightclub. He would go up on the roof, during band break's, and watch the guy's and gal's, get it on in the parking lot. He took a bus driving job, for a local school, and got fired for pinching little boy's, in the a$$. I've said all I want to about the subject, or I'll have the FBI knocking at my door, wondering how I knew that. When the suspect died, I figured justice has been served."

I'm wondering if we couldn't go back through that Topix link and see what else this "Gary" had posted - it might give a clue to who he was. I still think the best bet would be to send it to LE though, as human said, they have the resources to find out who the poster was and question him in person.

 

[shergal]

"Gary" also has another comment there about the suspect..

"gary wrote:
Sorry to say this, but Jacob is dead, and so is the person that killed him. The pedaphile that took Jacob, suffered a long painful death, if that make's people feel any better. And I do not know where his remain's are buried. I think Patty's speech's that she has made, has made more people aware, of the danger's, of stranger's approching their children. I know if I lost 1 of my children, I'd hold onto that hope that 1 day he'd be found alive."

 

[human]

Gary needs to be reported to LE. They can trace his internet and see who he is

 

[cGorg]

"Gary" also has another comment there about the suspect..

"gary wrote:
Sorry to say this, but Jacob is dead, and so is the person that killed him. The pedaphile that took Jacob, suffered a long painful death, if that make's people feel any better. And I do not know where his remain's are buried. I think Patty's speech's that she has made, has made more people aware, of the danger's, of stranger's approching their children. I know if I lost 1 of my children, I'd hold onto that hope that 1 day he'd be found alive."

shergal....I think you posted this info once before...back in 2010. I know I've read it on Topix over a year ago. Anyway, an interesting connection is 'Gary' says the suspect(son) worked in a nightclub and Jared's Story(Joy's blog) quotes his perp as getting angry as he is late for an appointment at the Red Carpet nightclub. As human says, it seems that LE could trace the post to Gary to see who he is. And beyond that, if the suspect worked at a nightclub I wonder if his employment info would be available? Either Gary is lying or if he knows something significant doesn't want to say for fear the FBI will be 'knocking on his door'.