MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #6

[Jbrown324320]

criminals do lie, but they tell the truth sometimes too. I would just say they are less reliable than the average person. I am not completely discounting his story, but I am not going to believe it 100% either unless I have someone reliable corroborating what he says is true. I wonder if Ben's dad can corroborate seeing the boys or even going to the store that night.

 

[human]

he was on foot at 20 to 9 and then riding in a car later.

where was he at 20 to 9 and why?

 

[thenotebook]

I have trouble with those tapes because DM leads them on in the conversation. So much of it is HER stating something, and them just agreeing with her. Just seems odd.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

I don't understand how Ben could have seen two people down the road in the dark when the boys could hardly see a man standing right in front of them.

 

[shergal]

he was on foot at 20 to 9 and then riding in a car later.

where was he at 20 to 9 and why?

He said he had been at a friend's house and was just walking back home. I don't think we've ever heard the name of the friend, but he must live fairly close.

 

[shergal]

I don't understand how Ben could have seen two people down the road in the dark when the boys could hardly see a man standing right in front of them.

Ben may have just heard someone down the road and assumed it was the B brothers. Or since he says he "saw" them coming up out of the ditch, maybe whoever it was had flashlights? Even ignoring his later record, how accurate are 11 year olds about something or someone they saw in the dark?

Even Aaron and Trevor "thought" they saw a gun because the guy said he had one. Although they were probably a lot more terrified than Ben would be just walking home. It shows you how safe everyone in town felt before Jacob's abduction, letting young kids wander around in the dark.

 

[human]

He said he had been at a friend's house and was just walking back home. I don't think we've ever heard the name of the friend, but he must live fairly close.

But where could he have been to see anything?

There are no houses within at least 1/4 mile or more.

There were the tiny amount of houses in the culdesac.

And nothing where kids might live except way up the road from DR. Makes no sense whatsoever

 

[shergal]

But where could he have been to see anything?

There are no houses within at least 1/4 mile or more.

There were the tiny amount of houses in the culdesac.

And nothing where kids might live except way up the road from DR. Makes no sense whatsoever

I think the closest home to DR's driveway was on the west side of the road going north. IIRC, (I couldn't find the transcript of the 911 call we had on here back a ways) on the 911 tape, the kids or Merle actually say it happened near Urban Schreifel's home, which is sort of "kiddy-korner" to the woods in front of DR's home. I figured maybe Ben's friend lived in that little group of 3 or 4 homes.

 

[Pensfan]

Here is some of Ben's record - just from Stearns County:
https://www.clickcomplete.com/jail/...q_key=10050&action=inmate_list&LastCriteria=3

Last Name First Name Middle Name Gender Age Booking Date Race
BINA BEN EDWARD Male 27 01/17/2005 White
BINA BEN EDWARD Male 25 09/30/2002 White
BINA BEN EDWARD Male 25 08/26/2002 White
BINA BEN EDWARD Male 25 08/12/2002 White
BINA BEN EDWARD Male 24 03/08/2002 White

(If the link above doesn't work, go to the stearns county past inmate search and type in Ben Edward Bina.)
https://www.clickcomplete.com/jail/default.cfm?PID=1.5

His booking photo:

If you go to the MN site
http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/default.aspx
and search his name: (Click on criminal, on next page type in code shown, and pull down to defendent, type in name, click search) ...he has 48 separate case records for various offenses for such things as theft, drugs, check forgery, receiving stolen property, giving false names, several DUI, driving without license, damage to property, etc. So I'm not sure how reliable he would have been at 11.

His long list of crimes suggest that he has severe emotional and behavioral disorders and these likely started in adolescence. He must have a long list of mental health diagnoses.

 

[ELOCsoul]

"Nothing in 38 years in law enforcement has hit me like this case has." Said retiring sheriff Charlie Grafft.

For Charlie, it began at home on Oct. 22. He was settling in to watch the news. A department squad car whizzed west on Stearns County Road 75 with its sirens blaring and lights flashing.

He waited to be paged. He wasn't. After a few minutes he called the office and was told that an 11-year-old boy had been snatched at 9:15 by a masked gunman near his home in St. Joseph. The boy's brother and a friend had seen it happen.

He drove his squad car the three miles or so to the crime scene. After a short time he went to visit Patty and Jerry Wetterling. He arrived about 9:45pm. "You hate to say this, but you wanted to get out of the house," Charlie said recently. "Patty, you know, she just really lost it."

Charlie was uncomfortable. He wasn't sure what to say. He wasn't sure what had happened. He could see the shock, the fear, the reality. He could see Aaron Larson and Trevor Wetterling. Their faces told him it was not a joke.

Still, no time for emotion, not yet. The sheriff had to get things rolling. By 10:30 - just an hour after he was sitting comfortably at home - Charlie was in the State Patrol helicopter beginning an air search. At one point they hovered so low they almost hit a power line.

Source: October 16, 1990 St. Cloud Times

 

[cGorg]

Ben's face sure doesn't match his voice. I, too, have wondered how Ben could see 2 individuals in that dark night. Google shows a red house to the north of the beginning of the treeline which is just north of the abduction site. I don't see any streetlights there now(maybe there was in 1989?-doubtful) but I can't gauge the exact distance from this red house(Urban Schreifel's house?) to that treeline but it appears to be 100'-150'. Unless Ben in his curiousity walked closer to get a better look? It would be interesting to have corroborating info from his dad if that was even possible. When I was an 11 year old kid, I ran around town with my buddies, in the dark, on foot. Our eyes adjusted to the dark but even so it would be hard to see a face at that distance-unless one recognized the voices. But Ben says he saw the B brothers. It's hard to gauge the entire story given his criminal record...but maybe he saw what he saw...IDK.

 

[cGorg]

"Nothing in 38 years in law enforcement has hit me like this case has." Said retiring sheriff Charlie Grafft.

For Charlie, it began at home on Oct. 22. He was settling in to watch the news. A department squad car whizzed west on Stearns County Road 75 with its sirens blaring and lights flashing.

He waited to be paged. He wasn't. After a few minutes he called the office and was told that an 11-year-old bobby had been snatched at 9:15 by a masked gunman near his home in St. Joseph. The boy's brother and a friend had seen it happen.

He drove his squad car the three miles or so to the crime scene. After a short time he went to visit Patty and Jerry Wetterling. He arrived about 9:45pm. "You hate to say this, but you wanted to get out of the house," Charlie said recently. "Patty, you know, she just really lost it."

Charlie was uncomfortable. He wasn't sure what to say. He wasn't sure what had happened. He could see the shock, the fear, the reality. He could see Aaron Larson and Trevor Wetterling. Their faces told him it was not a joke.

Still, no time for emotion, not yet. The sheriff had to get things rolling. By 10:30 - just an hour after he was sitting comfortably at home - Charlie was in the State Patrol helicopter beginning an air search. At one point they hovered so low they almost hit a power line.

Source: October 16, 1990 St. Cloud Times

Have not seen this before. Very sad. Patty losing it. Who can blame her? I've read where during WWII when the SS separated Jewish mothers from their children, these mothers would literally tear their hair out in complete frustration + panic. The Wetterlings have to be very strong people to carry on and weather this tragedy.

 

[shergal]

"Nothing in 38 years in law enforcement has hit me like this case has." Said retiring sheriff Charlie Grafft.

For Charlie, it began at home on Oct. 22. He was settling in to watch the news. A department squad car whizzed west on Stearns County Road 75 with its sirens blaring and lights flashing.

He waited to be paged. He wasn't. After a few minutes he called the office and was told that an 11-year-old boy had been snatched at 9:15 by a masked gunman near his home in St. Joseph. The boy's brother and a friend had seen it happen.

He drove his squad car the three miles or so to the crime scene. After a short time he went to visit Patty and Jerry Wetterling. He arrived about 9:45pm. "You hate to say this, but you wanted to get out of the house," Charlie said recently. "Patty, you know, she just really lost it."

Charlie was uncomfortable. He wasn't sure what to say. He wasn't sure what had happened. He could see the shock, the fear, the reality. He could see Aaron Larson and Trevor Wetterling. Their faces told him it was not a joke.

Still, no time for emotion, not yet. The sheriff had to get things rolling. By 10:30 - just an hour after he was sitting comfortably at home - Charlie was in the State Patrol helicopter beginning an air search. At one point they hovered so low they almost hit a power line.

Source: October 16, 1990 St. Cloud Times

(BBM)
So there WERE sirens! And if Charlie heard them inside his home 3 miles away, they had to have been pretty loud in front of DR's house. Was this around the time he said he was sleeping? Or was that later when "the helicopter was hovering so low they almost hit a power line"?? Hmmm. Yet a car in his driveway and his dog barking startled him. Seems to be some inconsistencies here.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

"You hate to say this, but you wanted to get out of the house," Charlie said recently. "Patty, you know, she just really lost it."

Charlie was uncomfortable. He wasn't sure what to say. He wasn't sure what had happened. He could see the shock, the fear, the reality. He could see Aaron Larson and Trevor Wetterling. Their faces told him it was not a joke.

This just breaks my heart.

 

[shergal]

Updating cGorg's timeline he created in thread 5 with this new info about Charlie Grafft:
(I have bolded the times I added, non-bolded portions are the work of cGorg - and BBM in my post above means "bolded by me")

cGorg's Timeline so far:
9:00-9:15- Smokey barks, DR sees a dark blue(or black) car drive thru the farmstead
9:15- Abduction occurs
9:32- Merle's 911 call to police
9:40- Police arrive at Wetterling house. I'm thinking here that it does take some time for LE to download the information from the boys before proceeding to abduction site)
9:45 - Charlie Grafft arrives at Wetterlings after hearing police sirens go by his home at 9:35-9:40.
9:45-10-Kevin + girlfriend (and friends hear scanner + see police cars go by). Since they live relatively close (not verified yet) they make it to the abduction site prior to LE, drive ALL the way through DR's farmstead driveway. Smokey does not bark (explanation anywhere for this?) Kevin drives to Tom Thumb, sees 'medical cop', then notices LE squad car at Cotton Dentist office, talks to him, cop says 'we know about the bikes'
10:00- DR goes to bed
10:05-10:20(I don't have any info on this) Since Merle's 911 call was at 9:32 and lasted several minutes, he then called Jerry + Patty in Clearwater. So I would assume the earliest they could be getting into their car would be 9:40. 25-30 minute drive puts arrival at 10:10. However, according to the Saint Autumn blog quoting Patty as saying they met a squad car on their road and the police escorted them to their house. I am wondering if LE waited at the Wetterling house before proceeding to the abduction site.
10:30 - Charlie Grafft (Sheriff) was in the State Patrol helicopter beginning an air search. At one point they hovered so low they almost hit a power line.
10:30-11:30? - Helicopter searches
11:23- Smokey barks, DR places 911 call regarding people searching the woodpile
So my point is: seems a plausible scenario. Kevin arrived at the abduction site first as LE was at the Wetterlings. Kevin sees the 'medical cop'(whom I cannot explain) and also sees the 'new cop' parked at dentist's office. Is this the cop that met the Wetterlings on the road before proceeding to their house? If so, Kevin, the police, and the Wetterlings did not cross paths going to and fro. My questions:

1. Why did Smokey not bark when Kevin's car drove all the way through the driveway?
2. Why was there not a police officer at the abduction site when Kevin arrived there? Were they short of officers? Or did Kevin get there too quickly?
3. When did the helicopters arrive?
4. DR's comment about being 100% sure that the tan car that went through his driveway in the afternoon being the perp: what is the logic here? is there any connection of this tan car to the abduction scenario?
5. is it possible that a statement or statements within what's been stated is not true?
More Questions:
6. Why did Smokey not bark at helicopters so close overhead they almost touched power lines? That can't be a common occurrence out in the country. (Or maybe he did bark and that was what woke DR so he looked out the window and saw searchers by the woodpile.)

 

[shergal]

Updating cGorg's timeline he created in thread 5 with this new info about Charlie Grafft:
(I have bolded the times I added, non-bolded portions are the work of cGorg - and BBM in my post above means "bolded by me")

cGorg's Timeline so far:
9:00-9:15- Smokey barks, DR sees a dark blue(or black) car drive thru the farmstead
9:15- Abduction occurs
9:32- Merle's 911 call to police
9:40- Police arrive at Wetterling house. I'm thinking here that it does take some time for LE to download the information from the boys before proceeding to abduction site)
9:45 - Charlie Grafft arrives at Wetterlings after hearing police sirens go by his home at 9:35-9:40.
9:45-10-Kevin + girlfriend (and friends hear scanner + see police cars go by). Since they live relatively close (not verified yet) they make it to the abduction site prior to LE, drive ALL the way through DR's farmstead driveway. Smokey does not bark (explanation anywhere for this?) Kevin drives to Tom Thumb, sees 'medical cop', then notices LE squad car at Cotton Dentist office, talks to him, cop says 'we know about the bikes'
10:00- DR goes to bed
10:05-10:20(I don't have any info on this) Since Merle's 911 call was at 9:32 and lasted several minutes, he then called Jerry + Patty in Clearwater. So I would assume the earliest they could be getting into their car would be 9:40. 25-30 minute drive puts arrival at 10:10. However, according to the Saint Autumn blog quoting Patty as saying they met a squad car on their road and the police escorted them to their house. I am wondering if LE waited at the Wetterling house before proceeding to the abduction site.
10:30 - Charlie Grafft (Sheriff) was in the State Patrol helicopter beginning an air search. At one point they hovered so low they almost hit a power line.
10:30-3:00 am - Helicopter searches
11:23- Smokey barks, DR places 911 call regarding people searching the woodpile
So my point is: seems a plausible scenario. Kevin arrived at the abduction site first as LE was at the Wetterlings. Kevin sees the 'medical cop'(whom I cannot explain) and also sees the 'new cop' parked at dentist's office. Is this the cop that met the Wetterlings on the road before proceeding to their house? If so, Kevin, the police, and the Wetterlings did not cross paths going to and fro. My questions:

1. Why did Smokey not bark when Kevin's car drove all the way through the driveway?
2. Why was there not a police officer at the abduction site when Kevin arrived there? Were they short of officers? Or did Kevin get there too quickly?
3. When did the helicopters arrive?
4. DR's comment about being 100% sure that the tan car that went through his driveway in the afternoon being the perp: what is the logic here? is there any connection of this tan car to the abduction scenario?
5. is it possible that a statement or statements within what's been stated is not true?
More Questions:
6. Why did Smokey not bark at helicopters so close overhead they almost touched power lines? That can't be a common occurrence out in the country. (Or maybe he did bark and that was what woke DR so he looked out the window and saw searchers by the woodpile.)

Just received info from ELOCsoul that the article on Charlie Grafft retiring also stated that the helicopter search went until 3:00 am, so I have changed that now in quoted post above. (I could no longer edit my previous post.)

 

[Jbrown324320]

if Sheriff Graft wasn't paged right away, that makes me believe that the police didn't believe it was a real abduction and didn't take the kids' claim seriously therefore not securing the scene properly.

 

[ELOCsoul]

if Sheriff Graft wasn't paged right away, that makes me believe that the police didn't believe it was a real abduction and didn't take the kids' claim seriously therefore not securing the scene properly.

One would think they took this very seriously, given there had been another abduction attempt reported in past 2-3 months in St. Joseph township. Perhaps there was some protocol in place that they would call once they knew more info.

 

[cGorg]

The Sherrif Grafft info tells me that LE got to the Wetterling house pretty quickly. Even so, it appears they must have in their haste driven right past the abduction site and on to the Wetterling residence. Once they downloaded info from Merle + the boys they must have sent a squad car past the abduction site and on to the highway to await Jerry + Patty returning from Clearwater. This would explain the cop's comment: 'yeh, we know all about the bikes' comment to Kevin who it appears arrived at the abduction site AFTER LE drove by it on the way to Wetterlings. There's 2 glaring gaps of info on the timeline:
1. 10:00 pm-10:30 pm....what was happening at the abduction site at this time? Anything?
2. 10:30-11:23 pm....if Sherrif Graft was in a helicopter by 10:30, one would assume other members of LE would have been on site by 10:30. If so, why does it take DR until 11:23 to place the 911 call concerning the wood pile? And just maybe(MOO), DR didn't see Kevin's car because he wasn't anywhere where he could see it-somewhere maybe other than the house? 9:15 to 10:30 is a large gap of time for the abduction site to be void of activity. And 10:30 to 11:23 is a large gap of time filled with activity which I would assume would be hard to miss.

 

[thenotebook]

About the helicopter....I can't believe that DR still didn't think this was all a big deal when a huge helicopter was whirling above the farm in the middle of the night. Helicopters are very loud and alarming...the dog would have been going nuts!