MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

[Jbrown324320]

Trackergd, the population of St Joseph's the time Jacob was abducted was around 4000 people. The towns close to there were just as small. To have that many sex offenders in that sparsely populated area defies logic to me. But when the church sex scandal came out, it started to come together. Some victims end up abusers themselves. I believe the abuse and victims from familial sex abuse and priest sex abuse multiplied. Everyone turned a blind eye and did not get help or counseling. Pretend it didn't happen. MN people like to see the good stuff and ignore or not talk about the bad sometimes. At least that is what it was like in my MN family.

 

[shergal]

I can't be certain this was the man, but I think it's pretty likely. I've reviewed the next few weeks of articles and the only sketch printed was of the man related to Jareds case. I think that was the man at the Tom Thumb, it's just not spelled out, like so many things in this case.

I wonder if this "60 year old man" is the same person as the man who we have been discussing here. The facts sound the same, being moved to a nursing home and suffering from Alzheimer's.

May 16, 1996: Search warrants authorities thought were sealed are released to the public. The warrants reveal three potential suspects authorities considered early in the investigation: A then 60-year-old St. Joseph-area man who confessed to the kidnapping one month after it occurred. The man was later eliminated as a suspect and moved to a nursing home because he suffered from Alzheimer’s disease. A St. Cloud State University student who was committed to a mental institution one week after Jacob’s abduction. The man later was eliminated as a suspect and killed himself in another state. A Paynesville-area man who fit the description of a man suspected of abducting and sexually assaulting a Cold Spring boy. Authorities searched his home three months after the Cold Spring abduction. Police then said that the man wasn’t a top suspect in the St. Joseph abduction, but at least one paragraph in the search warrant was blocked out.

http://globegazette.com/article_2b0e6832-84d0-11df-85ff-001cc4c03286.html

 

[ELOCsoul]

I wonder if this "60 year old man" is the same person as the man who we have been discussing here. The facts sound the same, being moved to a nursing home and suffering from Alzheimer's.

May 16, 1996: Search warrants authorities thought were sealed are released to the public. The warrants reveal three potential suspects authorities considered early in the investigation: A then 60-year-old St. Joseph-area man who confessed to the kidnapping one month after it occurred. The man was later eliminated as a suspect and moved to a nursing home because he suffered from Alzheimer’s disease. A St. Cloud State University student who was committed to a mental institution one week after Jacob’s abduction. The man later was eliminated as a suspect and killed himself in another state. A Paynesville-area man who fit the description of a man suspected of abducting and sexually assaulting a Cold Spring boy. Authorities searched his home three months after the Cold Spring abduction. Police then said that the man wasn’t a top suspect in the St. Joseph abduction, but at least one paragraph in the search warrant was blocked out.

http://globegazette.com/article_2b0e6832-84d0-11df-85ff-001cc4c03286.html

Right, and the Paynesville man was probably DAH.

 

[Trackergd]

Cgorg, if Jacob was picked up and carried, I would think that the bloodhounds would still pick up the scent. To me, the absence of footprints and scent means he was put in a vehicle. But I am not 100% on that.

Trackergd, in my opinion and my experience, Stearns County Sheriff does not like to share data, talk to victims families (esp in Josh Guimond case), work on cold cases or admit they messed up investigations. They also had a deputy who was arrested for child sex abuse for giving teen girls alcohol and molesting them. They could be hiding people, a part of the group who took him or covering up information. The FBI was involved at one point, but I don't think they are involved anymore.

RBBM

I am having the exact same issue with a department near me on the local case I have been working for 25 years. :banghead:

 

[cGorg]

Cgorg, if Jacob was picked up and carried, I would think that the bloodhounds would still pick up the scent. To me, the absence of footprints and scent means he was put in a vehicle. But I am not 100% on that.
.

Yes I agree. That 40 yard stretch of road with its evidence and the end of Jacob's scent point to a vehicular abduction. Yet LE says tracks accounted for and DR is the POI and was on foot. Is it possible a car was driven east through the farmstead and then north towards the Del Win? An abductor and a driver?

 

[shergal]

Yes I agree. That 40 yard stretch of road with its evidence and the end of Jacob's scent point to a vehicular abduction. Yet LE says tracks accounted for and DR is the POI and was on foot. Is it possible a car was driven east through the farmstead and then north towards the Del Win? An abductor and a driver?

That path to the Del-Win that DR ran on seems fairly small for a car, but anything is possible. Although I think there would have been tire prints on his running path then?

Has anyone ever mentioned where DR's car was during all this? Or his parents' car also - since they were in Europe? Those 2 cars must have been parked somewhere up near the house. They don't appear to have an actual "garage" unless they just use one of their old farm outbuildings. If one of those cars was used to take Jacob out of the yard to the east and toward the DelWin, there would have been no recent tracks further down on the driveway. I sure wish Kevin hadn't driven in there and mucked up all the tracks.

 

[shergal]

Just wanted to note that you folks have dug up more information in the last year than any other resource. Who knew the area was pedophile central and that there were similar cases in the general area? One can only hope that all of this will eventually lead to Jacobs abductor and an answer. I hope that if all this information were collated and handed over to the media, that it would force LE to share information between departments and outside resources to solve this case, and possibly others.

There is a key piece missing, but I am pretty sure one of you is going to trip over it and all H-E double hockey sticks is gona ensue. If nothing else, you will have shone a glaring light upon lack of interdepartmental sharing of information.

I am still stuck on why LE will not share the photographs. As evidence goes, it's not that big a deal and does not point a glaring finger, at least not to the untrained eye. Seems kind of odd to me. What is needed is some pressure on them to share. Media, State Legislature or Congressional.

Tracker, can you explain more what you mean by the part I have bolded above?

 

[Trackergd]

Tracker, can you explain more what you mean by the part I have bolded above?

Sooner or later, one of you is going to find the connection that has eluded everyone else.

It is my opinion that in addition to solving this case, it will point a glaring and very public light on the inefficiency, lack of cooperation and lack of communication between LE departments and professional resources in the area.

I just get this uneasy feeling having talked to the department involved on the phone and by email that something just does not sit well with my educated gut. This is essentially a cold case and they should be jumping with joy for any assistance. One would wonder why they are not and are closing ranks and refusing to share even one photograph. This should raise the eyebrows of elected officials.

I suspect as many of the rest of you do that there has been some degree of manipulation or contamination of evidence, diversion, redirection and/or just plain stupidity. When found out, it will be too big to sweep under a rug and the media will have a field day with it.

If one of you stumbles across a better picture of the prints, PM me right away and I get right on it.

 

[Jbrown324320]

I always thought they would welcome any assistance in this case too and in Josh G's case, but I was wrong. I know in Josh Guimond's case (also being researched by Stearns County) the DA, the Sheriff and the sheriff's son attended St Johns University- the very place Josh attended and went missing from. The DA's husband also currently works there. They are no longer talking with the Guimond family and approved a protection order against Josh's dad (requested from St Johns) from coming on campus to look for their own son.

Shergal, I have never thought about where DR's vehicles were. Good point.

 

[cGorg]

That path to the Del-Win that DR ran on seems fairly small for a car, but anything is possible. Although I think there would have been tire prints on his running path then?

Has anyone ever mentioned where DR's car was during all this? Or his parents' car also - since they were in Europe? Those 2 cars must have been parked somewhere up near the house. They don't appear to have an actual "garage" unless they just use one of their old farm outbuildings. If one of those cars was used to take Jacob out of the yard to the east and toward the DelWin, there would have been no recent tracks further down on the driveway. I sure wish Kevin hadn't driven in there and mucked up all the tracks.

It doesn't seem implausible to me that a car could traverse north....certainly not a smooth ride. Of course there would be tire tracks but wasn't there construction north of DR's farm in 1989? A neighborhood being developed? And farm vehicles that would leave tracks? A car can drive through a ploughed field-especially in dry weather. Your comment about DR's vehicles being parked on the farmstead is a good observation. I don't think I've seen anyone discuss Rassier's cars. If one of those vehicles was used would the tracks not be interpreted as being benign? That as a matter of course those tracks would appear everywhere naturally. However, I'm having trouble with this perp on foot theory...just how does this actually work? How does the perp carry Jacob somewhere on that farmstead without detection? I've asked this before as I don't know the answer- but if he was carried does this mean his scent disappears? Could LE have failed to search the entire site thoroughly that night? Even if true, they were there the next day and would have failed to find him yet again if he was physically on site. And they found nothing in in 2010. Comments have been made about the burn pit but that doesn't explain where Jacob could have been immediately after the abduction-if on site. It's been said here that "it's all about the cars"...and IMHO...it is-one way or another. I'm not ruling out any possible perp(s), only trying to understand the logical logistics of where Jacob was taken immediately after his abduction.

 

[cGorg]

I was curious about SAR dogs so found this: http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/mammals/sar-dog2.htm

I don't know how soon dogs were brought into the case and I suspect there's posters here who are knowledgeable about dogs. It seems indicative to me that the dogs ended their search at Jacob's footprints.

I do remember a mention by one of the posters of cadaver dogs but can't recall the post #

 

[marlins]

I seem to remember DR stating that he drove by LE with a car full of band equipment the morning after Jacobs abduction. Does that ring a bell to anyone? Been searching for this article for the last few hours, but can't locate it.
Regardless, I started to think about this statement and the more I thought about it , the more it bugged me.

First, why would DR bring a carload of band equipment from his home to the school?

Second, because of Joy's blog we know exactly what DR was doing on the Sunday of Jacobs disappearance: private saxophone lesson in the morning, organization of his record collection, jogged to the delwin, returned home and saw cars racing through his driveway, went to bed, etc... Yet, he never mentioned packing his car with the equipment that he claimed to have drove past LE with. I guess my question is this: When did DR pack his car with the equipment? We know he didnt pack the car on sunday; so did he pack the car the morning after the abduction, or was it possibly saturday? Any thoughts?

 

[shergal]

I seem to remember DR stating that he drove by LE with a car full of band equipment the morning after Jacobs abduction. Does that ring a bell to anyone? Been searching for this article for the last few hours, but can't locate it.
Regardless, I started to think about this statement and the more I thought about it , the more it bugged me.

First, why would DR bring a carload of band equipment from his home to the school?

Second, because of Joy's blog we know exactly what DR was doing on the Sunday of Jacobs disappearance: private saxophone lesson in the morning, organization of his record collection, jogged to the delwin, returned home and saw cars racing through his driveway, went to bed, etc... Yet, he never mentioned packing his car with the equipment that he claimed to have drove past LE with. I guess my question is this: When did DR pack his car with the equipment? We know he didnt pack the car on sunday; so did he pack the car the morning after the abduction, or was it possibly saturday? Any thoughts?

Good point on wondering when he packed the car, Marlins. DR made that statement about taking his car full of instruments past LE in a couple of his TV interviews, that may be why you can't find it in print. I suppose he could have done it on Saturday. It would be interesting to find out when the instruments went in there.

 

[Trackergd]

I was curious about SAR dogs so found this: http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/mammals/sar-dog2.htm

I don't know how soon dogs were brought into the case and I suspect there's posters here who are knowledgeable about dogs. It seems indicative to me that the dogs ended their search at Jacob's footprints.

I do remember a mention by one of the posters of cadaver dogs but can't recall the post #

In most cases, when the dog has lost the scent, it's because there is either no scent to follow or it has been so badly contaminated by other scents that the dog can no longer detect it. It would suggest (assuming the dog was properly trained and was a ground scent dog) that Jacob was put into something like a car that would end the dead skin cells trail that the dog detects. Given the other scene contamination by LE, I don't think we can assume anything about the dog and handler unless we can find something that indicates it was an experienced handler and bloodhound or other trained and certified trailing dog.

 

[Trackergd]

Good point on wondering when he packed the car, Marlins. DR made that statement about taking his car full of instruments past LE in a couple of his TV interviews, that may be why you can't find it in print. I suppose he could have done it on Saturday. It would be interesting to find out when the instruments went in there.

Hauling a load of instruments in a car would be a great way to hide something under them without much chance of it being searched.

Two to four instruments might be understandable for someone teaching music, but a car load? Unless some other school donated their older instruments, I can't see that happening. Not many scenario's lend them selves to having a car load of band instruments.

 

[Trackergd]

I always thought they would welcome any assistance in this case too and in Josh G's case, but I was wrong. I know in Josh Guimond's case (also being researched by Stearns County) the DA, the Sheriff and the sheriff's son attended St Johns University- the very place Josh attended and went missing from. The DA's husband also currently works there. They are no longer talking with the Guimond family and approved a protection order against Josh's dad (requested from St Johns) from coming on campus to look for their own son.

Shergal, I have never thought about where DR's vehicles were. Good point.

With all the like cases in the geographic region, the information you have all pulled together and the serious questions about Stearns County and it's internal connections, one or more of you should approach a member of the State Legislature and get some assistance to approach the State Department of Investigations (in what ever form it is in MN) for the intent of initiating a State level investigation and review of Stearns County's handling of the case and a review of the original evidence as well as what all of you have pulled together. The more Legislature members you get on board, the more force you can bring to bear against Stearns County. If you can some how get some media coverage, it will add traction. The worst thing Stearns County can do is appear uncooperative in the media...that might even get National attention given the history of the case. A media call to get the FBI back on the case with new technology should make someone sweat a bit.

I'm darn stubborn. When I hit a brick wall...I get a sledgehammer.

 

[Trackergd]

Just a little hint here in case any of you have a chance to use it in the future.... I pay very close attention to the face of property owners when their property and buildings are being searched (or have a team member do it) to see if they start looking nervous, sweat or in some way change facial expression. I used to have a lady SAR team member that was very good at this. I would have her stay near the property owner under the auspices of being a "Resource Coordinator" complete with a reflective vest and note pad. No one ever paid attention to her. She usually fill a page on that note pad with all kinds of interesting things she had seen or overheard since she always feigned being intent on something else like her notes rather than what was going on around her. The information was mined for anything helpful to the search and then turned over to LE.

When during a search, the property owner tries to hide a smile or grin during what is essentially an emergency, even more so when he/she is making a big show of being helpful, it has been my experience that they think they are smarter than SAR and LE and either have the victim well hidden and are having a good laugh inside about the inability of the searchers to find the subject or have moved them elsewhere. I don't mean a nervous grin...I mean one with a cold look in the eyes.

One of the skill sets our sleuthing pioneers had and current successful detectives have is the ability to read facial expressions and body language. It is as much a tool as being able to read a print.

Hope this helps one of you down the road. :seeya:

 

[cGorg]

In most cases, when the dog has lost the scent, it's because there is either no scent to follow or it has been so badly contaminated by other scents that the dog can no longer detect it. It would suggest (assuming the dog was properly trained and was a ground scent dog) that Jacob was put into something like a car that would end the dead skin cells trail that the dog detects. Given the other scene contamination by LE, I don't think we can assume anything about the dog and handler unless we can find something that indicates it was an experienced handler and bloodhound or other trained and certified trailing dog.

Trackergd....given all of that...do you think it possible that Jacob could have been hidden on the farmstead property undetected?

 

[Jbrown324320]

Does anyone remember what kind of car DR had with the boxes? Also, I was in band. Late October is not the time to be bringing instruments to school. Although I did not attend school in DR's district, we usually signed up for elementary band in September, they gave us a month to purchase or rent an instrument and then started practices the end of September to get a lot of practice in before the Christmas concert. In middle school, it was a scheduled class and you needed your instrument within the first week of school. Does anyone know what school DR was teaching at the time Jacob went missing?

 

[ELOCsoul]

Does anyone remember what kind of car DR had with the boxes? Also, I was in band. Late October is not the time to be bringing instruments to school. Although I did not attend school in DR's district, we usually signed up for elementary band in September, they gave us a month to purchase or rent an instrument and then started practices the end of September to get a lot of practice in before the Christmas concert. In middle school, it was a scheduled class and you needed your instrument within the first week of school. Does anyone know what school DR was teaching at the time Jacob went missing?

He was at Riccori in Cold Spring the next day.