MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

[shergal]

Sasquatch, You also need to state IMO (in my opinion) when making statements like this so they are not read as fact by readers of this thread who come along later.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Sasquatch, You also need to state IMO (in my opinion) when making statements like this so they are not read as fact by readers of this thread who come along later.

Was it that believable? The story is only my opinion.

 

[human]

I agree with the possibility. But it could have been fantasized for a long time.

 

[human]

Facts we have.

1. LE has information that allows them to get a sealed warrant to get items and dig up the R farm

2. LE takes items that they say may provide information when technology advances

3. DR is named a POI

I want to know, but no one has answered. Were cadaver dogs brought in? Did they hit on the blood on the chest? If so, it is blood from a deceased person, not a live person.

 

[ELOCsoul]

In his book, "The Line," author and professional hunter extraordinaire William Urseth tells the tale of a man who was the cook at a hunting property in Bottineau, North Dakota in 1991.

Urseth's journey to the hunting property in Bottineau is quite a tale on its own, but of more interest to us is the man there named Clark, who was known as the Water Witch. Clark earned that name for his innate ability to locate underground water and oil using unconventional methods. The author tells the story of how Clark accurately predicted the number of birds the hunting group would shoot the first day out.

Where things got interesting was with what happened at the end of that first day. Clark knocked on the hunting cabin and asked the men if they had heard of Jacob Wetterling. Being natives of Minnesota, they certainly had heard of Jacob. Clark then asked if they wanted to know where he was buried. Without answering, Clark proceeded to guide his hand over a map and settled on a park in the town of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Urseth asked Clark if he had ever told the FBI about this. He said he did, and they thought he was crazy.

 

[Sasquatch321]

In his book, "The Line," author and professional hunter extraordinaire William Urseth tells the tale of a man who was the cook at a hunting property in Bottineau, North Dakota in 1991.

Urseth's journey to the hunting property in Bottineau is quite a tale on its own, but of more interest to us is the man there named Clark, who was known as the Water Witch. Clark earned that name for his innate ability to locate underground water and oil using unconventional methods. The author tells the story of how Clark accurately predicted the number of birds the hunting group would shoot the first day out.

Where things got interesting was with what happened at the end of that first day. Clark knocked on the hunting cabin and asked the men if they had heard of Jacob Wetterling. Being natives of Minnesota, they certainly had heard of Jacob. Clark then asked if they wanted to know where he was buried. Without answering, Clark proceeded to guide his hand over a map and settled on a park in the town of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Urseth asked Clark if he had ever told the FBI about this. He said he did, and they thought he was crazy.

Interesting story, it gives chance that if he is there that one day as the earth evolves his remains will be unearthed and found.

 

[human]

That is interesting, but I have given info to LE about different things. All they do is say thank you or do not answer.

I do not think they tell people they are crazy.

They even take psychic info.

 

[ELOCsoul]

This abduction attempt was not related to Jacob's, but it is a reminder that kind of activity was happening in the area and was largely ignored.

The alleged abduction attempt took place on the 1200 block of 15th St North in St. Cloud, on July 13, 1989. A man enticed a 4 year old boy away from his apartment and tried to take him away in his car. He offered the boy a soda if he would take a ride with him. They left the apartment building area on bikes. The boy's 10 year old sister went out looking for her brother and found him with the man, as he was loading the boy's bike into his car.

The man was found, but was not charged because he hadn't given the boy anything to ingest, hadn't assaulted him, and the boy was not beaten or harmed

St. Cloud police admitted to "blowing" the investigation.

Source - December 8, 1989 St. Joseph Newsleader

 

[human]

That is a strange story ELOC.

They left on bikes. So how far did they go that a ten year old girl could find them. And when did she notice.

The LE did interview someone, so it must have happened, but it seems hard to believe. And what kind of bike did a four year old have? It is unusual for a four year old to be riding a two wheeler bike.

Strange story

 

[Sasquatch321]

This abduction attempt was not related to Jacob's, but it is a reminder that kind of activity was happening in the area and was largely ignored.

The alleged abduction attempt took place on the 1200 block of 15th St North in St. Cloud, on July 13, 1989. A man enticed a 4 year old boy away from his apartment and tried to take him away in his car. He offered the boy a soda if he would take a ride with him. They left the apartment building area on bikes. The boy's 10 year old sister went out looking for her brother and found him with the man, as he was loading the boy's bike into his car.

The man was found, but was not charged because he hadn't given the boy anything to ingest, hadn't assaulted him, and was not beaten.

St. Cloud police admitted to "blowing" the investigation.

Source - December 8, 1989 St. Joseph Newsleader

I cant believe the police are so corrupt that attempted abductions were ignored in the area. The fact you were able to find this story is proof of that.

 

[cGorg]

ELOCsoul...

I find both your stories(Water Witch + 1989 Attempted Abduction) strange. Not doubting you, they are just very unique stories.

1. Water Witch: does this story have any legs or is it simply interesting? I have a friend familiar with Bottineau who could check further on the story.
2. 1989 Abduction Attempts: it seems in the 1980's there was a lot of this type of activity....is it confined to this time frame?

 

[Jbrown324320]

I believe the St Cloud kidnap attempt story happened and probably still happens a lot. Many LE brush off attempted abductions most likely because they don't want to do the work. Kid wasn't harmed, found right away, went back home. No problem here. They didn't think about what could have happened or believed the suspect's lies for whatever reasoning they had to take the child. I don't think LE around the country really had a clue about child abductions and how scary they are until John Walsh's child disappeared.

 

[Jbrown324320]

human, according to this MPR article from 7/2/10, DR thought LE brought in backhoes after dogs were brought to the property:

"Rassier said he believes investigators came back to his property this week because of new canine resources. He said he supports any effort to do a search in a new and better way."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-07-02-jacob-wetterling_N.htm

this may have been the probable cause they received for permission to search the property.

 

[shergal]

ELOCsoul...

I find both your stories(Water Witch + 1989 Attempted Abduction) strange. Not doubting you, they are just very unique stories.

1. Water Witch: does this story have any legs or is it simply interesting? I have a friend familiar with Bottineau who could check further on the story.
2. 1989 Abduction Attempts: it seems in the 1980's there was a lot of this type of activity....is it confined to this time frame?

cGorg, that would be great if your friend could check further on the water witch story. I'm wondering if this was fiction or non-fiction? May have been embellished some if it was based on true stories?? I do think LE or FBI would at least have checked this out or interviewed this Clark guy and not just told him he was "crazy."

It's odd that the abduction story was never in the St. Cloud paper, (at least I don't recall reading it, and that was fairly close to the home we lived in back in 1989) but in the St. Joe newspaper, unless it was just a small item on a back page or something. I wonder if there was more to this incident, like it was a person with some mental deficiencies who they knew was harmless? Those apartments are right across the street from the area Technical College and most people living there are either low income families or college students. I guess I'd like to see the actual article or find something from the Times about it. Not doubting it happened, but like Human says, at four years old, that's a bit young to be riding a bike, especially outside by yourself. It seems to me that if the guy was really intent on grabbing this boy, a little girl wouldn't have stopped him.

 

[human]

human, according to this MPR article from 7/2/10, DR thought LE brought in backhoes after dogs were brought to the property:

"Rassier said he believes investigators came back to his property this week because of new canine resources. He said he supports any effort to do a search in a new and better way."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-07-02-jacob-wetterling_N.htm

this may have been the probable cause they received for permission to search the property.

Wow wow wow. Smoking gun! The dogs must have hit on the scent of human remains. They do not hit on the scent of dead animals. Just wow!

 

[Sasquatch321]

Wow wow wow. Smoking gun! The d. ogs must have hit on the scent of human remains. They do not hit on the scent of dead animals. Just wow!

I believe there was animal bones recovered from the dig. Its too bad we dont know all the details of what they found yet, i guess we will have to wait until the trial starts, IF it does.

 

[human]

Dogs do not hit on animal bones. There are tons of articles on that on the net.

No way. They hit on the death of a person

 

[human]

Smoking gun. Waiting for technology

 

[Marzipan]

Smoking gun. Waiting for technology

Agree. I think that chest may have once held Jacob, but this is only my opinion. I think a cadaver dog hit on it, then they tested and found blood or other bodily fluids, but the testing of that was inconclusive. I'm basing this on what DR said in his TV interviews after the search. I think DR has done very well in most of his recent interviews, but showed some deception when talking about the chest.

I think it's obvious it had to be a cadaver dog. Why else bring dogs from Louisiana after 20-some years if not really good cadaver dogs.

Random other thoughts, for trackerd or anyone else: Do you think or know if LE made a mistake and drove up DR's driveway the night of the abduction? From Kevin's story, it's clear they didn't secure the site right away. I can imagine them not knowing how serious of a case the call was going to turn out to be and just sending some officers to drive over there. I probably would have made such a dumb move myself--just drove right over to check things out. That could have obscured a lot of footprints and other tracks, right?

Also, if Feeney had an old police car, could he have been involved and used the car, but his tracks were taken for police car tracks?

We know Feeney was in the area. And Kevin's story includes meeting a self-proclaimed "medical cop" at Tom Thumb.

 

[Trackergd]

Agree. I think that chest may have once held Jacob, but this is only my opinion. I think a cadaver dog hit on it, then they tested and found blood or other bodily fluids, but the testing of that was inconclusive. I'm basing this on what DR said in his TV interviews after the search. I think DR has done very well in most of his recent interviews, but showed some deception when talking about the chest.

I think it's obvious it had to be a cadaver dog. Why else bring dogs from Louisiana after 20-some years if not really good cadaver dogs.

Random other thoughts, for trackerd or anyone else: Do you think or know if LE made a mistake and drove up DR's driveway the night of the abduction? From Kevin's story, it's clear they didn't secure the site right away. I can imagine them not knowing how serious of a case the call was going to turn out to be and just sending some officers to drive over there. I probably would have made such a dumb move myself--just drove right over to check things out. That could have obscured a lot of footprints and other tracks, right?

Also, if Feeney had an old police car, could he have been involved and used the car, but his tracks were taken for police car tracks?

We know Feeney was in the area. And Kevin's story includes meeting a self-proclaimed "medical cop" at Tom Thumb.

I think they made a mistake in not immediately securing the crime scene as soon as it was discovered it was an abduction.

At this point, anything is possible with regard to the tire tracks. And it also depends on what foot print and tire print evidence LE collected and if they also did photographs and casts of the car tires in question.