MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #8

[Sasquatch321]

Thanks. I've seen other people suggest it as well, so I was just making sure this is/was just an assumption/theory and that it's not actually documented anywhere.

Only DR knows because he hasn't got an alibi that day or night. The information known is vague at best (labeling his records, out running that day).

 

[Sigrun]

Perhaps DR didn't see Kevin's car because supposedly Kevin was in the driveway after a) hearing the call out on the scanner; 2) getting into the vehicle and driving over to the site, which would have put him there in pretty short time after the incident itself, yes? If the scenario was that DR (and/or DR and another individual) brought Jacob up to and into DR's house, he then was not in a position to be looking out windows, etc at that particular time, as he was (theoretically) subduing or hiding, or gods knows what, to Jacob at that time.

That was quick. Okay, yes. If this were true, then DR was deceptive about the other, smaller car. It didn't exist, because if it did, we have to ask how long are the odds that a stranger car (b/c this example is predicated on DR being the perp) would happen into his driveway at that critical moment? Thus we have DR engaging in deception even today regarding those events.

~ svh

Caveat: assume DR does not have an accomplice besides K+K

 

[thenotebook]

Lets not forget about the other viable suspects that we've identified, particularly DAH and more recently the Hubers.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/21/are-paynesville-father-son-connected-to-wetterling-case/

 

[Sigrun]

Taking the pull over: a simple explanation was that Kevin saw abandoned the bikes across the road and was observing the scene...wondering if they were stolen, or the result of a hit and run (etc)

I don't understand what you think DR was deceptive about in regard to the cars. Can you clarify a bit?

It is my understanding that DR claimed to have seen 1 car that night, but the question is was that car:
1. sliver/tan in color and large-ish (K+K)
2. dark/blue in color and small-ish (potential perp)
3. some hybrid of the above, with faulty witness account factored in.

What I mean by #3 is that DR truly, honestly believes he saw a small dark car but in fact he saw a large silver car. (All accounts continue to state how dark it was that evening, and while I know there was a light close to DR's house, if he observed the car very quickly, his memory could be at fault.

In my understanding, there could've been 2 cars that night, but DR only saw 1

My facts may be off on this. I thought it was 2 cars that he claimed to see? I think he claimed 1 Monte Carlo that afternoon and one small, blue sedan that evening, right about abduction time.

But anyway, you were saying that Kevin wouldn't lie to his family about those other cars that DR mentioned. That depends on whether or not Kevin knew about those fictitious cars ... and were they fictitious. You were suggesting they were actually Kevin in different cars, right?

~ svh

Just to clarify, there are a gazillion and one ways he can rig an alibi if he has a willing perjurer. That's all it takes. Relatives are most likely to do it.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Do you guys think the vehicle backed into the driveway from the tar? or did he pull into the driveway and whip a u turn 50 yards in, or did he drive all the way in and turn around in the building site?

Also did he drive in and park before the boys left for the store or while they were on their way back?

 

[Silverngold]

I just thought of something today. As you approach the farm from the old tom thumb you going up a slow inclining hill. In fact, when you are at the mailboxes and end of the farm driveway (abduction site) you have just come up and over that hill. There is no way a stranger would have put himself in this situation- a dead end to the left and no field of vision to the right. It was also dark out, only DR saw them going to the store and knew the area well enough to surprise the boys as they came over the hill.

I totally agree. I have been out there also. DR's driveway is so similar to a public dirt road. Very eery also! I always envisioned it to look different and farther away from Jacob's residence.

 

[Caoutchouc]

My facts may be off on this. I thought it was 2 cars that he claimed to see? I think he claimed 1 Monte Carlo that afternoon and one small, blue sedan that evening, right about abduction time.

But anyway, you were saying that Kevin wouldn't lie to his family about those other cars that DR mentioned. That depends on whether or not Kevin knew about those fictitious cars ... and were they fictitious. You were suggesting they were actually Kevin in different cars, right?

~ svh

Just to clarify, there are a gazillion and one ways he can rig an alibi if he has a willing perjurer. That's all it takes. Relatives are most likely to do it.

Some things are getting confounded here.

What I was saying is that DR claims to have only seen 1 car that night (I left out the the car he claims to have seen during the day)

There may have been 2 cars that night, K+K and the perp, but DR only saw 1

 

[Sasquatch321]

I totally agree. I have been out there also. DR's driveway is so similar to a public dirt road. Very eery also! I always envisioned it to look different and farther away from Jacob's residence.

Locals will understand the scene alot better and probably follow behind LE's theory more than the outsider. The outsider looking in will latch onto the vehicle theory until they have witnessed the location for themselves.

 

[Sigrun]

Do you guys think the vehicle backed into the driveway from the tar? or did he pull into the driveway and whip a u turn 50 yards in, or did he drive all the way in and turn around in the building site?

Also did he drive in and park before the boys left for the store or while they were on their way back?

To me, the evidence in the driveway suggests one car, Kevin's, in that critical time window around the abduction. There could be more, but so far that is all I can see.

~ svh

 

[Sigrun]

Some things are getting confounded here.

What I was saying is that DR claims to have only seen 1 car that night (I left out the the car he claims to have seen during the day)

There may have been 2 cars that night, K+K and the perp, but DR only saw 1

Yes I know, my fault, I was multi-tasking. We agree. Now, can you explain the three trips again?

~ svh

 

[human]

Lets not forget about the other viable suspects that we've identified, particularly DAH and more recently the Hubers.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/05/21/are-paynesville-father-son-connected-to-wetterling-case/

The Hubers had no sewage system and they lived with animals such as chickens in their house. That is the human house.

There is no way that they didn't stink to high heaven. No one has mentioned revolting smell.

And I m sure any car they had would be disgusting as well.

 

[Silverngold]

Locals will understand the scene alot better and probably follow behind LE's theory more than the outsider. The outsider looking in will latch onto the vehicle theory until they have witnessed the location for themselves.

After seeing the location with my own two eyes I did get a feeling about the place. Has anyone else seen DR's massive wood pile as of lately? One word sums it up Shrine. It's immaculate to the minute detail. Along with two other smaller woodpiles. A smaller one is visible from the road. First thing I thought was shrine. The person I was with used to work with sex offenders. First thing thought was look how much pride he takes in that masterpiece. Hand by hand, hours and hours of devotion. It is a work of art. A masterpiece as big as a building. Perfectionist in need of control. I couldn't breath it was off the charts. We didn't go any farther. So I checked and I couldn't find any research of actually removing the wood pile in 2010. Initially they looked to the side of it but back then it would've been smaller in comparison. Imo it represents accomplishment. But what lies beneath it? Another thing it stands right in the center of it all! It symbolizes something and he can visit the site any time he chooses. Words do not do it justice and he has more wood than anyone needs. Could it be that obvious? Imo some piece of evidence is in there! The person didn't believe me that it was a driveway.. but now I'm glad I witnessed that!

 

[Sigrun]

Picking up where I left off with Tammy, we know of one car that was in the driveway in that narrow time window, and that was Kevin and gf in a Grand Prix. DR claims another car came into the driveway at near that time (just before). What I was going to ask was, if we see tracks of one of those cars to the side of the driveway (straddling a packed section) it leaves the following options:

1. Kevin's car pulled over and the other one probably did not
2. The other car pulled over and Kevin's car probably did not

To see this, notice that when one of the cars pulls over, it means the other cannot.

The only difference in these two cases is that:
1. the first option tends to inculpate the claimant (Kevin in this case).
2. the second option tends to exculpate the claimant (DR in this case).

Therefore, if DR had absolutely nothing to do with this, the second option is more likely. On the other hand, if DR had any hand at all in this, the first option is more likely and the second is not as likely (DR is the abductor and we don't need a get-away car). I know we can imagine all sorts of exceptions, but they load on more heavy assumptions. This seems to be the simplest explanation. Since most of us agree that DR has some hand in this, the correct answer is option 1. But let's be fair to DR. Which statement is more likely accurate; that which inculpates or that which exculpates? Exactly, but we'll keep our assumption about DR as a proviso to be really fair:

1. Kevin's car pulled over and the other one probably did not if DR had any role in this crime.

So, why did Kevin pull over? Then, why do the footprints show the pattern they do around what we can see now is Kevin's car?

Finally, what do you call it when JEW is lifted into Kevin's Grand Prix, DR knows it and neither one sings for 25 years?

Answer:

Collusion

imho.

I'll refine this later when I assume an accomplice for DR and where I can remove the assumption that DR is involved in the crime.

~ svh

 

[Silverngold]

Why would DR be in cahoots with k&k? It's just like any time an ambulance heads out on an accident. People are intrigued and they follow. Plus he would hang himself out to dry. Although now if you said matty feeney met up with k&k that may be a possibility. After all he was around and was with the boy scouts the evening before.

 

[Sigrun]

Why would DR be in cahoots with k&k? It's just like any time an ambulance heads out on an accident. People are intrigued and they follow. Plus he would hang himself out to dry. Although now if you said matty feeney met up with k&k that may be a possibility. After all he was around and was with the boy scouts the evening before.

Hey Silverngold, great question, I have no idea.

~ svh

 

[Jbrown324320]

silverngold, did you take a picture of the wood "shrine"? I do believe DR is very "off", but is he a kidnapper?

 

[FindTim]

When one believes that Jacob and Jared were abducted by the same person you're effectively ruling out DR as a suspect. DR taught at ROCORI Middle School, which Jared attended.

Jared fully saw his abductor and made the composite sketch, which means DR is completely ruled out. Taking it one step further, DNA was procured from Jared's assault and DR freely submitted his. DR is not a suspect in either case if you believe he is JW's abductor.

 

[Ifollowthis]

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/...through-day-of-wetterling-abduction/#comments

I have read the comments above several times over the last year. The RL that comments is the young man that was held for several days after the murder of Decker the Cold Spring cop. He obviously has no love for the Stearns County sheriff's department. He was later cleared of having anything to do with the murder.

What I find interesting is that he lived in DR and Jacob's neighborhood and is the same age as Jacob. His comment that MF was the different one is interesting. I can't help but think that the kids knew DR, my boys are the same age as the Wetterling boys, I would guess it was next to impossible to keep them and the other neighborhood boys out of the small gravel pit on DR's land and probably had to be chased out of there more than once, it would have been a magnet for my boys. It seems by his comment that the boys may have had some weird experiences with MF. If someone was bothering a young boy I am sure they probably would not have told their parents in that day and age.

If DR was a runner it could have been that the neighborhood kids rode bike with him while he ran. Kids usually know more about the neighbors than their mom and dad.

I have always wondered how well that DR and MF knew each other, they for sure knew each other through church and with one being in music and the other in acting and youth group activites I can see them teaming up for a Christmas pageant for kids at the church. I wonder of anybody
on this thread remembers if they ever worked together in church activities.
MF would have lived with in walking distance of DRs house
I wonder who the Officer Skidattle is that RL asks in the comments if he is hiding something?

 

[FindTim]

Because he has an immaculate wood pile he's a sex offender? Wow.

After seeing the location with my own two eyes I did get a feeling about the place. Has anyone else seen DR's massive wood pile as of lately? One word sums it up Shrine. It's immaculate to the minute detail. Along with two other smaller woodpiles. A smaller one is visible from the road. First thing I thought was shrine. The person I was with used to work with sex offenders. First thing thought was look how much pride he takes in that masterpiece. Hand by hand, hours and hours of devotion. It is a work of art. A masterpiece as big as a building. Perfectionist in need of control. I couldn't breath it was off the charts. We didn't go any farther. So I checked and I couldn't find any research of actually removing the wood pile in 2010. Initially they looked to the side of it but back then it would've been smaller in comparison. Imo it represents accomplishment. But what lies beneath it? Another thing it stands right in the center of it all! It symbolizes something and he can visit the site any time he chooses. Words do not do it justice and he has more wood than anyone needs. Could it be that obvious? Imo some piece of evidence is in there! The person didn't believe me that it was a driveway.. but now I'm glad I witnessed that!

 

[Silverngold]

silverngold, did you take a picture of the wood "shrine"? I do believe DR is very "off", but is he a kidnapper?

No. I should have. I was too lost in the moment. Someone else should go look at it! Like I said I wasn't expecting to be down the road. I left asap.