MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #9
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human, I'm not following your logic. Why would the rear tire go over his print? This would only happen if the car were in a turn of a very specific angle. It's possible but very unlikely. Besides, even if it did happen, to cover the footprint the foot would also have to be lying along the axis of the tire print. All this seems exceedingly unlikely to me.
If his weight fell to the ground and was caught by that foot, I can easily see a relatively clean, deep print. I agree with this logic inasmuch as it shows an upward or downward movement, it's just that I thought JEW's tracks were known to have gone up the driveway, so him getting out here doesn't make sense to me so far.
~ svh
As we've discussed earlier, perhaps someone of privileged knowledge knows, but there is nothing in the public domain supporting any non-relative alibis for K+K, so I agree with the alibi statement only in a pro forma sense.
~ svh
Trino
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Remember the cliche: two can keep a secret if one is dead. BUT, four people keeping a secret? I think we're going off the deep end.
I absolutely do not think JW's kidnapping was a tag team event either by K (and company) or by LH and DR. While we have no info re: K, since most male sexual abductions are committed by one person , the scenario of K+K is IMO not likely. As to LH and DR, why would DR assist a friend in the abduction of a young boy? Again, could two keep a secret? DR has been questioned numerous times, has been hypnotized, and his parent's property has been searched 3 (?) times. He has no criminal record; this seem the same for K, whoever he is. Apparently, K is not a POI.
Sometimes when I read posts, it seems posters forget there are still FBI and LE on the case. It's great to speculate, but can we give some credibility to law enforcement? This website does not exist in a vacuum. Do you honestly know the person you may be responding to isn't law enforcement?
Placing S1 and S2:
I believe it is more likely than not that the composite drawing made in the Jared case is a likeness of the same person seen in the picture I posted at the beginning of this thread.
It is unlikely that Jared's attacker, a resident of another state, happened to know the man who lived at the site of JEW's abduction but who at the same time was not involved in the abduction of JEW.
Ergo, it is more likely S1 is JEW's abductor.
I believe S1 and S2 have known each other for several decades. I believe they attended the same graduate school. I believe they conversed as friends years after the abduction.
This occurred on S2's property. Therefore, it is unlikely that if S2 knew S1 that S1 would have abducted JEW on his property without S2's knowledge.
Ergo, it is more likely that S1 and S2 colluded in the abduction of JEW.
As already deduced, the driveway evidence supports this conclusion and S1 and S2 fill the roles already mentioned there.
From hereon I'll divulge each step I'm taking only after I've completed it.
~ svh
I believe it is more likely than not that the composite drawing made in the Jared case is a likeness of the same person seen in the picture I posted at the beginning of this thread.
It is unlikely that Jared's attacker, a resident of another state, happened to know the man who lived at the site of JEW's abduction but who at the same time was not involved in the abduction of JEW.
Ergo, it is more likely S1 is JEW's abductor.
I believe S1 and S2 have known each other for several decades. I believe they attended the same graduate school. I believe they conversed as friends years after the abduction.
This occurred on S2's property. Therefore, it is unlikely that if S2 knew S1 that S1 would have abducted JEW on his property without S2's knowledge.
Ergo, it is more likely that S1 and S2 colluded in the abduction of JEW.
As already deduced, the driveway evidence supports this conclusion and S1 and S2 fill the roles already mentioned there.
From hereon I'll divulge each step I'm taking only after I've completed it.
~ svh
It is not necessary to imply that someone is insane because they don't agree with your preferred version of events. That 4 can keep a secret if all of them have a lot to lose by being honest is not going off the deep end, it happens all the time. It's called criminal collusion and is hardly unheard of.
I assume nothing about LE, but given that they've been at this for 25 years, I am not assuming supreme confidence in authority in this matter, no. If LE is posting here and they have "special" knowledge that can't be shared it doesn't help this conversation. None of us can verify claims of that nature. So, I don't understand what difference it makes if LE posts here or not.
With all due respect, there is way too much emotional investment in this case and it is preventing us from determining what happened. We don't have to accept a foregone conclusion before we're done (and we won't be until it is solved).
~ svh
Ifollowthis
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One thing to think about, that picture was put together by LE combining a couple of various drawings different people had done from Jarrod's description not the other two boys at JWs.
Agreed, the placement of S1 at the crime scene is based on the logic of being the attacker in Jared's attack and the coincidence of also knowing the person at the scene of JEW's abduction. Not as strong as if the boys had actually seen his face themselves.
~ svh
looking forward to your next analysis.
Do we already have a master list of some kind for all reports of sitings of, or contact with, JEW, from the following states through May 1991?:
WI, IA, IL, MN
Thanks in advance,
~ svh
btw, I ask because I'm told flyers for JEW reached California interstates within a few weeks of the abduction
WI, IA, IL, MN
Thanks in advance,
~ svh
btw, I ask because I'm told flyers for JEW reached California interstates within a few weeks of the abduction
I was reading about that last night. Will try to put something together.
Thanks, I read somewhere about a call from IL but didn't read all the details. I'll check on that one. I don't think we'll get anything much unless there's a feature in it that couldn't have been tracked without what I know now, which is what I'm looking for.
~ svh
try WS thread #7 posts 533 on
In any missing person case, has a person been found because of a sighting?
How many people want to help and think they saw something?
How many people want attention so they make up stuff for attention?
How many people think it is funny to pretend to have seen him or call the home pretending to be him?
How many people want to help and think they saw something?
How many people want attention so they make up stuff for attention?
How many people think it is funny to pretend to have seen him or call the home pretending to be him?
Oct. 25, 1989: Authorities receive several tips that a small red car had been seen in St. Joseph in the past three weeks. About two dozen red cars in the area are investigated. The FBI profile describes the abductor as a white man, 25-35 years old, employed in a low-skilled job with a low self-image probably stemming from a physical deformity such as acne or scars.
Nov. 17, 1989: A detailed description of a car involved in the attempted abduction of a 13-year-old boy in Roberts, Wis., is released. Someone calls a national missing childrens network and reports that Jacob is actually still in St. Joseph. Authorities investigate but nothing turns up.
Nov. 24, 1989: Authorities seek information on three cars seen in Jacobs neighborhood before the abduction.
Critical Time period:
August 3, 1990: A boy who called Crimestoppers from a payphone in Forrest, IL has not been proved to be a hoax so far. From the St Joseph Leader (Ledger?) newspaper from 8/17/90:
The call came on August 3, 1990. The caller said the following according to Chief Deputy Sheriff Jim Kostreba "He told the call taker he was phoning from Forrest, IL, and that he needed help". He said there was a red car involved and that he was with a man but he didn't know his name, and then he said he had to go and hung up." The call lasted less than a minute.
Illinois authorities released information to the media, and a woman who works at a convenience store called to say she saw "someone who she thought was similar to Jacob" two days before, in the store. She served the boy and the man and soon after saw the boy make a phone call from a booth across the street from the store. She saw the man put the boy into a red station wagon and drive off.
Kostreba acknowledged the dept receiving other calls that were hoaxes but "this call is different".
In another article, same issue of same paper, PW notes optimism about that call, saying that the woman reported that the boy was thin like Jacob, had a "shabbily-cut home haircut" and a large mole on his face. (Jacob has a small mole).
Summary:
The caller did not identify himself. However, he was calling a Crimestopper number. Given the reasoning skills and experience of a 12 year old, it might be understood (incorrectly) that he was JEW. Does anyone know if this number was specific to JEW or was set up for any number of cases? I think it appeared on a flyer with JEWs picture, correct? Then the boy could have reasoned his identity was understood. It might be advisable to set up numbers specific to cases for this reason, where that is not already done.
The caller knew he was in Forrest, IL. If 12 years old, how quickly would he learn the name of a town after arriving?
His hair was not professionally cut and this is consistent with captivity.
We have no reason to doubt the gross features of the womans recollection. However, details such as matching the boy to JEW can be questioned.
He described a red station wagon, which was also spotted in St. Joseph well before the abduction. If S1 were visiting S2, this could have been the car S1 was using. Could the blue sedan actually be a red one? Cant tell yet if this is special pleading to fit a narrative or not, so I need more to resolve this. I need something independent of both to rule on what S2 is really saying here. But the fact that it was a station wagon may argue for a completely different vehicle if this were found to be tied to JEW.
The woman responded to media attention 2 days after the fact and I am leery of testimony that she saw someone in which she stated it was someone who she thought was similar to Jacob. There are many kids who are similar to Jacob at this gross level.
Presumably, a call trace was only able to trace to a city block or two, therefore, her memory of a young male placing a phone call is not unlikely by itself.
Why would an abducted boy grab a pay phone across the street as opposed to going into the store (?) and talking to a clerk? This could indicate:
1. It is a hoax or
2. It could indicate that the perpetrator has a cover story to explain his legitimate custody of the boy; good enough that the boy believed talking to a clerk wouldnt do any good (a young boy might not be able to forecast the result of police intervention; namely, that police would have to resolve the mans legitimate custody if the boy claims otherwise).
3. Another option is that the boy believed the man to be so dangerous that clinging to a clerk might endanger the clerk. Under dire circumstances, this would require an unusual degree of empathy for a boy of that age.
The call was brief and if interrupted by a captor then at that point the captor was using psychological means to control the victim (the caller himself said he had to go and hung up apparently). Of course, he was also in a public place.
If the caller had less than one minute to access a pay phone one year from the abduction it weakly suggests a Histrionic personality for the captor, but this is weak and could be Axis I in any case.
It would be immensely helpful to know what conversation she had with the two when she served them.
It would be immensely helpful to know what the waitress said about the appearance of the man. Was a composite done? Anyone?
Taken together, all of this is tantalizingly close to showing the presence of Histrionic personality interrupting this phone call, but its not enough by itself. I believe if the waitress could provide (or provide again) a more complete description of the subjects, especially what was said when she waited on them, this could be resolved pretty easily.
May 2, 1991: PW sends 10,000 copies of a letter asking for help in finding her son. It generates a few leads, but nothing significant.
Jan. 4, 1992: A nationwide mass-mailing of a computer-enhanced photo of Jacob turns up no clues.
End Critical Time period
Ive plugged in what I have on the IL call, with some analysis.
~ svh
Sasquatch321
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Elizabeth Smart was found by sighting, i assume she had been slightly brainwashed because at first she was hesitant to say she was Elizabeth.
snip from 533:
On October 3, 1990, a possible sighting of Jacob occurred in Reno, Nevada. A young boy had come into a store along with two men on three consecutive days at 9:00 am. On the third day a clerk asked one of the men if the boy was his son. The man laughed and indicated he was not his son. The trio never came back to the store after that. The clerk phoned authorities, and after being shown a poster of Jacob she identified the boy as being him.
cindya et al, I humbly suggest we need to learn everything possible about this incident. There is a back story to Reno, the clerk and the laughing man.
~ svh
Hey human, I would go with yes on the first question for sure. But the others I'd agree with the implication; that the vast majority of reports are bad ones.
~ svh
Silverngold
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Imo wouldn't it be crucial to change vehicles if a person were transporting a missing child which had national media?
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