MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #10

[hoppyfrog]

Mixologist--

This is the third time I've told you (twice on this thread and once in a visitor message) that because you have an inside connection to the case, you must contact WS's owner, Tricia, so she can verify your identity before you can post. Her email is tgrif@xmission.com. Please take care of this because we all would love to hear what you have to say.

Thanks so much,

Hoppy
mod

 

[W8nC]

As you may know I'm from Jefferson City. Regarding a couple of recent posts (bear with me I'm new and probably don't know best way to do this):

W8nc said: "I've also wondered if there is any significance to the fact that EO has family members in prison, as well. I can't explain the connection, just sort of feels like maybe that may have had importance to AB, in choosing EO as her victim? I don't know, just unfinished theories in my head."

Perhaps it has not been mentioned, and if it has, it needs repeating, Elizabeth's father, Dale Olten and a brother are in prison. It is my understanding Dale Sr. was involved with drugs. Also, it has been reported that Dale Sr. was the last person to see alive a young woman who has been missing for a couple of years and is probably dead, I think her name is/was Jasmine Haslag. Her mother, first name Florence, has been very active in helping families of missing persons here in MO and was with Elizabeth's family before the body was found.

lajr56 mentions that MO's juvenile justice system is a national model. Yes, and it has been for quite a while. Our Division of Youth Services (DYS) has a long history of trying to find the best programs to help youth in their custody. MO has been a national leader in many areas: services to problem youth (DYS), early learning (we started the Parents as Teachers program), state parks (some of the best in the country but now facing funding cuts), child support enforcement (once a national leader, now barely exists). Sorry, I'm off topic.

I invite you to look at the News Tribune, and join in the discussion on the forums.

Thanks, mybackyard. We have discussed the Olten/Haslag connection, but I don't know if AB knew of that, or if she did, how or if that may have affected her choice of EO as a victim, or if EO was just handy, as a younger, smaller, non-family-member who happened to be around a lot. LE said EO did nothing to provoke AB's attack, but if she'd been hanging out with the younger sibs for who-knows-how-long, there may have been something that happened awhile back, or an old irritation, dislike, slight. Or even, as some have speculated, maybe EO had caught AB at something, and AB wanted to make sure she didn't tell...no evidence of this, but how would we know? EO could have seen AB using drugs or making out with a bf or some other thing she'd get in trouble for. However, none of those theories have anything to do with the older Olten's. So far, we've heard NO clear motive or reason behind her choice of victim.

I've read the a few of the NT forums, and posted on one. More rambling thoughts (I apologize), but was thinking after reading some of those NT things, again regarding motive...AB wanted to know what it feels like to kill someone. I wonder if it ever crossed her mind, before OR SINCE, to wonder what it feels like to be killed by someone? What Elizabeth felt, or how she herself might feel if all those predictions made by Mr Valentine come true. He sat right beside her and said "if she is tried as an adult, she won't live through her trial." He predicted she would be abused, molested and either killed in jail, or commit suicide before the trial was over. Then minutes later, Judge Beeton announced she would be tried as an adult.

She didn't really appear to react to that, IMO.....but maybe, just maybe, deep down, the chilling truth was dawning on her. "Whoa....maybe this will be worse than just losing my cell phone........."

 

[W8nC]

Mixologist--

This is the third time I've told you (twice on this thread and once in a visitor message) that because you have an inside connection to the case, you must contact WS's owner, Tricia, so she can verify your identity before you can post. Her email is tgrif@xmission.com. Please take care of this because we all would love to hear what you have to say.

Thanks so much,

Hoppy
mod

Yes, please Mixologist.... please DO get approved!! You appear to have some very informative and important info, and we all want to know what it is.

I was here and managed to see your last post before it was removed. I wish everyone else could see it, as it will REALLY stir up the conversation, but since it was pulled, I can't even allude to the content.... Once Tricia approves you, EVERYONE will benefit from seeing what you have to add.

We welcome, and eagerly anticipate, your APPROVED input.

:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:

 

[Kimster]

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/11/21/news_local/doc4b06b756f2b43893819471.txt

Online editor posts some interesting comments today -- I think giving a nod toward the WS forum --not mentioning any forums specifically, but it sounds like WS etiquette on this case specifically to which editor refers

This article also notes that the move has not yet been ordered or approved (to Fulton State Hospital)

:dance: It is nice to see our integrity is appreciated! :dance:

 

[everyoneneedsavoice]

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/11/21/news_local/doc4b06b756f2b43893819471.txt

Online editor posts some interesting comments today -- I think giving a nod toward the WS forum --not mentioning any forums specifically, but it sounds like WS etiquette on this case specifically to which editor refers

This article also notes that the move has not yet been ordered or approved (to Fulton State Hospital)

Yes...I read it too!

Although we know that the forums are diligently watched, it's good to see someone point out the good ones and their associated behaviors. While he could have been talking about another forum...I think he elludes to us...WS!

After having frequented another "hot" forum here, I must say that Elizabeth's forum has been handled with the utmost dignity. It is refreshing to come to this thread and see the adult and professional level of disagreement and frustrations exhibited, without any bashing or "throwing stones" back and forth.

Kimster ITA - INTEGRITY!!!

 

[mixologist74]

Mixologist--

This is the third time I've told you (twice on this thread and once in a visitor message) that because you have an inside connection to the case, you must contact WS's owner, Tricia, so she can verify your identity before you can post. Her email is tgrif@xmission.com. Please take care of this because we all would love to hear what you have to say.

Thanks so much,

Hoppy
mod

I DID contact Tricia and she DID email me back, thus the reason I was posting.

 

[mixologist74]

She never said what type of "approval" I need in order to post. If it's my name and my source's name, I will NOT give that info on the net.

 

[Gray]

Perhaps you should think twice about posting, mixologist. Especially since your source is someone you care about who works at the jail, right? Couldn't he possibly lose his job if it is discovered that he's releasing information that he's not supposed to on an open case?

JMO.

 

[mixologist74]

Perhaps you should think twice about posting, mixologist. Especially since your source is someone you care about who works at the jail, right? Couldn't he possibly lose his job if it is discovered that he's releasing information that he's not supposed to on an open case?

JMO.

Consider it done.

 

[Prof]

WS certainly has more overall integrity and credibility than other forums related to true crime that I have run across, great posters and moderators -- I got the 2 day boot once

I do appreciate the NT's online editors' as they provide detailed feedback and rationale for the posters there; it's a tough job that I would not have the patience for! lol

As for our recent insider, I hope she realizes that the rules are to protect not only the forum, and those related to the forum topics, but also to protect the posters

I do agree with Passionate, and imagine that disclosing particular resident information from a prison might get someone in trouble --IDK

 

[mybackyard]

I don't understand how LE missed 2 graves. Everyone keeps talking about the 2 graves and what she planned on doing with the 2nd one. But has anyone talked about what she did with the 2nd one? Did she dig 2, leave them both open until the day of the murder, put Elizabeth in the one and then fill in the 2nd grave, or did she fill in the 2nd sooner?

And I just don't understand how the searchers missed 2 graves. I know the terrain was bad, the weather awful, so on and so forth. But they had the pinging of the cell phone pointing them to the area, and again there were 2 graves, one with a body in it.

Has this been discussed here? Sorry if I missed it. I read a lot on previous threads but missed a lot on thread 9 (how do I get to thread 9 by the way?). What did she do with the 2nd grave, was it filled in?

 

[Prof]

This two graves thing has bothered me too
First of all, I'd want to assume that the information came from AB rather than LE finding the 2nd grave -- IDK Did not we hear that she disclosed that she did not like the first, so she dug a second? There has been a whole host of speculation on this since we first heard about it from Trish's source who had a source

Trish's post is the first one on this thread


Just my 2 for whatever they are worth--
To get to a new thread I just backtrack the links up on top of the page
I am sure someone else can provide a shortcut
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Missing!! > Missing/Located Forum Discussion

 

[W8nC]

Yeah, I've heard that somewhere else, too, that she didn't like first grave, so dug the 2nd. Because of that, I've kind of assumed she had no use for the 1st one, and either filled it in right away, or left it 1/2 dug and unused. I don't tend to think she haad plans to use the other one. In those woods, I'd think there would be tons of roots and rocks making digging fairly difficult, but not impossible, if you pick the right spot.

We had tons of rain in October. I did go walking in the woods a few times, though, as I live in the country and walk a lot. There are places you can get to easily, even when it's wet out, and places that are tougher to get to, or look as if they should be avoided, especially with slick, wet leaves on slopes and such. But if AB was familiar with those woods, and it appears she was (snuck off and spent the night in the woods??), then she would have known her way around better than strangers searching. It would be easy to throw some dead branches and a pile of leaves over the grave(s) to disguise them.

 

[Kimster]

She never said what type of "approval" I need in order to post. If it's my name and my source's name, I will NOT give that info on the net.

Tricia wouldn't ask you to do either one of those things.

I think the reason we might be confused is that in the past, Tricia would come to the thread and make an announcement that someone had talked to her, etc. She didn't do that here and I noticed she didn't do that with someone else in another thread. The admin here has been shorthanded as of late which might account for the change, or maybe she just doesn't do that anymore? I'll pose the question in the "ask a mod" area.

Please know that Tricia would never ever ask you to reveal your anonymity or your source.

 

[SevenSeas]

I can't find any pics either. Do we know if she was at the hearings?

Yes, she was at the initial hearing, along with the GM. GP in town, but elected to stay away...that day.

 

[danni]

I don't understand how LE missed 2 graves. Everyone keeps talking about the 2 graves and what she planned on doing with the 2nd one. But has anyone talked about what she did with the 2nd one? Did she dig 2, leave them both open until the day of the murder, put Elizabeth in the one and then fill in the 2nd grave, or did she fill in the 2nd sooner?

And I just don't understand how the searchers missed 2 graves. I know the terrain was bad, the weather awful, so on and so forth. But they had the pinging of the cell phone pointing them to the area, and again there were 2 graves, one with a body in it.

Has this been discussed here? Sorry if I missed it. I read a lot on previous threads but missed a lot on thread 9 (how do I get to thread 9 by the way?). What did she do with the 2nd grave, was it filled in?

I don't know how they missed the graves unless they were VERY well hidden and even then I don't know but it makes me wonder how many other missing people are out there buried in graves that LE has "walked right over" and were not any the wiser!

I AM NOT BASHING LE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM THESE GRAVES COULD HAVE BEEN UNDER 10 FOOT OF BRUSH FOR ALL WE KNOW BUT HOW MANY OTHER BODIES ARE DONE THE SAME WAY? If a 15 year old can conceal a body from THAT MANY searchers you think an adult couldn't do it?

About the cell phone "pointing" them to the area, this was posted WAY back in the very first thread that was started when Elizabeth first went missing. It was posted 10.23 (post #503) It gives some REALLY good information about how close the "pings" can actually get or should I say how "off" they can actually be!

wrote by: kcsleuth
I wanted to share this article in regards to pinging a phone and the accuracy.

My concern is this area where she is missing from is about an 1/8 mile from a major state highway "50 Highway".

I hope they are searching the sides of the road between 50 and her house looking for the cell phone, as well as along 50.

CYSecurity was pleased to introduce you to a new, leading-edge wireless location technology called ‘Pinging’ a few months ago, however ping confidence became a major concern of ours as clients sometimes disagreed with location accuracy. And since it is the wireless carriers who actually perform the pings, we decided to investigate the accuracy of the technology to determine whether we and our clients shared unrealistic expectations of what could be delivered.

The final report on Project Locate (Locate Our Citizens At Times of Emergency), which was commissioned by the Association of Public Safety Communications Officials International (APCO), a group that has long been concerned by the limitations of the technology, revealed the startling truth: carriers are often unable to come within 300 meters of a 911 caller!

Seven carriers were tested in seven different communities across the USA. A total of 203 telephone calls per carrier were made from randomly selected areas within the sample communities. Two carriers tested used network technology primarily while five used ‘handset’ technology, meaning they use global positioning system satellites to locate callers. Generally speaking, the network solution works better in urban areas where it may be difficult for a satellite signal to penetrate buildings, but not so well in rural areas because of a lack of towers.

An analysis was also made of the number of concerns received from our customers vs. the total number of pings performed. Our conclusion is that prepaid cell phone pings are approximately 50% accurate while pings to regular plan cell phones are approximately 85% accurate.

We now understand that there are limitations to current position determining equipment and that it is certainly not perfect - however it’s as good as today’s technology allows it to be. It is reported that 253,000 calls are made to 911 from cell phones each day in the US and Canada, and that 12.4 % of households are ‘wireless only’.

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) did not anticipate that so many consumers would abandon wireline phones in homes and offices. Minor variations in location data can have potentially tragic impact on the ability of first responders to find emergencies inside dense residential complexes and offices. The increased use of wireless phones in multiple-story buildings will also require potential inclusion of elevation information in the future. The FCC has also noted the increasing use of wireless phones in homes and businesses and has determined that such indoor use demands even greater levels of location accuracy.

The technology is still in its infancy, however it is a foregone conclusion that it will radically improve in the near future. And CYSecurity will bring it to you as soon as it becomes available.

BBM
Just for referance 300 meters is 984.25 feet ALMOST the distance between EO's house and AB's house!

 

[mybackyard]

Thanks danni, that helps.

 

[Angel Who Cares]

Girl, 15, is puzzler for justice system
11/22/2009
<snipped>
The murder traumatized this working-class, mostly Catholic community. But it also shocked a justice system now struggling to figure out what to do with a troubled teenage girl with nowhere to go.

The decision rests with a prosecutor and judge pressured to be tough on crime, and a juvenile system asked to determine whether Bustamante is a candidate to escape the demons dancing in her head.

Much More At Link:
THE 'MISSOURI MODEL'
Such gruesome details led Cole County Prosecuting Attorney Mark Richardson to say he would seek the most serious punishment possible for Bustamante: life in prison without parole.

MORE FEMALE KILLERS
Wilson said the problem of girls' being accused more frequently of increasingly violent crimes is something the nation had better prepare for.

A HOLE IN THE SYSTEM
Long before judges and prosecutors weigh issues of crime and punishment, young people often leave a trail of warning signs that the system misses.

Article:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...418FCF884BEA06B1862576750015EFC9?OpenDocument

:angel:

 

[gliving]

The Early Show had Alyssa's "best friend" Jennifer Meyer on this morning. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009...5746399.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea

I don't think we've seen her before. A pretty young lady dressed conservatively wearing a cross necklace. Maybe there will be a video of the interview later.

Also you can sign up for updates of Alyssa's court dates. Here is the latest from this morning:

Monday, November 23, 2009

This email is to inform you of an upcoming court event involving the defendant ALYSSA BUSTAMANTE and court case number 09ACCR03516. A(n) Counsel Status Hearing has been scheduled for 12/7/2009 at 9:00 AM. This will take place in Cole County, Circuit Division 4 Courtroom located at: 301 East High Street in Jefferson City, MO 65101.

If you plan to attend the hearing, be sure to check with the prosecutor's office to make sure the hearing is still set. You should telephone the day before the hearing, as last minute continuances are often granted. For more information, contact the office responsible for this case. The telephone number is (573)634-9180.

This notification is sponsored by the Missouri Department of Public Safety. It is our hope that this information has been helpful to you.

Thank you,


Counsel status?

 

[hellinor]

I am bummed that I missed mixologists inside info that was deleted and that it seems we're not going to get it! I should be on during the weeknd more....