MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #12

[PAXIMUS]

The ICP group does claim that their message has been about god. Which shocked their fans as well as the public. However this band has been around for a VERY long time. It is well known that's what they are about. Shocking people! Through their behavior, their lyrics and their prefomances. It could be for media hype....who knows. All the attention brings them more money which I'm sure is their first priority anyways. MOO

I have no doubt its about media hype but the fact remains their lyrics say what they say and thats all I was pointing out. I think its silly that when we are young we get pissed on by the adults in our lives for the music we listen to the clothes we wear or how we cut our hair and we hated it then when we get old we proceed to do the same thing to the kids around us.

Horrorcore music stinks IMO but how is it any different than watching a horror movie or reading a Stephen King novel? I fail to see the difference.

 

[not_my_kids]

They have their annual Gathering of the Jugaoos each year too. BTW for those who don't know Faygo is a type of soda that is popular with that crowd.

Actually, Faygo is just cheap soda, popular with everyone that likes cheap pop, at least in MI.
ICP uses it, but the people at Faygo don't have much to say about it.

 

[Dal Gal]

IMO the defense would have better luck putting the parents and grandparents on trial, rather than Prozac.

 

[Csquare]

I have no doubt its about media hype but the fact remains their lyrics say what they say and thats all I was pointing out. I think its silly that when we are young we get pissed on by the adults in our lives for the music we listen to the clothes we wear or how we cut our hair and we hated it then when we get old we proceed to do the same thing to the kids around us.

Horrorcore music stinks IMO but how is it any different than watching a horror movie or reading a Stephen King novel? I fail to see the difference.

IMO more people live through music than they do books or movies. My step-daughter was into the Jugaloo/Jugalette scene in High school. My wife and I told her even though it isn't fair you will be judged by how you dress and who you hang with. I learned this and I was passing on what I had learned to try to help her. When I say that group of people are treated different I say so from experience. When that group of students did something they were automatically guilty until the could prove innoncense. Teachers were more reluctent to help those students as they were PERCEIVED to be a group that didn't care.

 

[PAXIMUS]

They have their annual Gathering of the Jugaoos each year too. BTW for those who don't know Faygo is a type of soda that is popular with that crowd.

Yea thats what Andraes is talking about, we read an article about a reporter who infiltrated that annual gathering and it was pretty wild, its online somewhere, excellent article.

 

[hellinor]

Horrorcore music stinks IMO but how is it any different than watching a horror movie or reading a Stephen King novel? I fail to see the difference.

Paximus, SUCH a good point!!! I had never looked at it that way. I suppose the fact that we are so interested in morbid crimes could be looked at similarly by others maybe? And around the age of 12 or 13, NOBODY loved gory movies and Stephen King novels like I did, I read everything he wrote and saw Pet Cemetary probably 1000 times......

 

[LadyBug99]

I have no doubt its about media hype but the fact remains their lyrics say what they say and thats all I was pointing out. I think its silly that when we are young we get pissed on by the adults in our lives for the music we listen to the clothes we wear or how we cut our hair and we hated it then when we get old we proceed to do the same thing to the kids around us.

Horrorcore music stinks IMO but how is it any different than watching a horror movie or reading a Stephen King novel? I fail to see the difference.

I agree with you! What I find amusing is that as a teenager you are told not to do something. So what do you do? You go right out there and defy the rules, parents and authority. And it's all just to get a reaction out of it. If people didn't make such a big deal about it....you lose the hype and you lose the notoriety. The notoriety is what kids look to...They want to be involved with something that's rebellious. Whether it’s music, lifestyle or drugs it's all done (for the most part) for shock value IMO.

 

[PAXIMUS]

IMO the defense would have better luck putting the parents and grandparents on trial, rather than Prozac.

As a defense attorney I would put her parents, gps, her therapists AND prozac on trial, whatever it takes to get the jury to understand my client had no control over what she was doing. I would not suggest she walk out of court acquitted but I think she needs to be put in a hospital and not a prison.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Paximus, SUCH a good point!!! I had never looked at it that way. I suppose the fact that we are so interested in morbid crimes could be looked at similarly by others maybe? And around the age of 12 or 13, NOBODY loved gory movies and Stephen King novels like I did, I read everything he wrote and saw Pet Cemetary probably 1000 times......

I remember reading It at 12. There's a pretty gory and sexually explicit novel there.

 

[hellinor]

As a defense attorney I would put her parents, gps, her therapists AND prozac on trial, whatever it takes to get the jury to understand my client had no control over what she was doing. I would not suggest she walk out of court acquitted but I think she needs to be put in a hospital and not a prison.

Paximus, and AndresEscobar, I enjoy hearing your legal POV and wanted to thank you for adding that value to this discussion.

 

[Csquare]

I guess what I'm asking is how are they treated differently?

Also, there are plenty of other kids that aren't in this "juggalo/jugalette" group that are more prone to taking illegal drugs and drinking. I've seen it at the schools where I used to live, and those kids weren't into the whole ICP ,goth or emo lifestyle or any of that. Just regular kids on the outside. When I was in high school, I, like a LOT of others, experimented with pot and alcohol, and it wasn't driven by any music group, etc. It's just something kids do...a rite of passage, if you will, although not all kids do it. Again, it all comes down to parenting, IMO. If parents give kids the guidance to make better choices, then they will be less likely to try drugs, get into trouble, etc.

I don't know if people are scared of them due to the look and the way they dress, lack of knowledge or what. Here is my thought. When you are in public places, IE school, don't dress in a fashion that brings attention to yourselves. This is why I would not oppose uniforms for kids in shcool.

 

[hellinor]

I remember reading It at 12. There's a pretty gory and sexually explicit novel there.

I still get nervous, at age 28, if I think about It in the shower, can't keep my eyes off the drain and gotta get out of there quick!!!!!

 

[AndresEscobar]

I agree with you! What I find amusing is that as a teenager you are told not to do something. So what do you do? You go right out there and defy the rules, parents and authority. And it's all just to get a reaction out of it. If people didn't make such a big deal about it....you lose the hype and you lose the notoriety. The notoriety is what kids look to...They want to be involved with something that's rebellious. Whether it’s music, lifestyle or drugs it's all done (for the most part) for shock value IMO.

Also, recall: "I haate authority, so talk to me ." from Alyssa's twitter bio.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Well no matter what sort of music or clothes Allyssa liked, the armful of cuts should have been a HUGE warning sign to someone..

teacher, school nurse, therapist, grandparents whatever

At some level maybe they all share blame...

one reason I have brought up the Mormons is that they have been noted in other cases for sort of sweeping things under the table??

as long as her grades were ok maybe no one cared that her myspace showed a dark side or her wrists were all cut up ???

whatever, whoever...IMHO too late now...people who don't want to go to prison should not do things that send them there ...good advice

Allysa is still alive...poor Elizabeth isn't
let's not forget that

 

[PAXIMUS]

Paximus, SUCH a good point!!! I had never looked at it that way. I suppose the fact that we are so interested in morbid crimes could be looked at similarly by others maybe? And around the age of 12 or 13, NOBODY loved gory movies and Stephen King novels like I did, I read everything he wrote and saw Pet Cemetary probably 1000 times......

Precisely and I am not sure to most people at least that we are all normal sitting here talking about all these crimes like we do, obviously it all fascinates us on some level or another, for me I really study the criminal mind and like to try and figure out what makes these people do what they do.

 

[Csquare]

Also, recall: "I haate authority, so talk to me ." from Alyssa's twitter bio.

My step-daughter was diagnosed with Reactive Attachment Disorder and rules and authority were 2 of the things that would her off.

 

[not_my_kids]

Precisely and I am not sure to most people at least that we are all normal sitting here talking about all these crimes like we do, obviously it all fascinates us on some level or another, for me I really study the criminal mind and like to try and figure out what makes these people do what they do.

Same reasons for being here for me. And yes, everyone I know thinks I am morbid and some think I have a mental issue, because I come here.
It's all perspective, imo.

 

[not_my_kids]

I can say that in all of this, the self-mutilation, imo, is the most telling sign that there was something very wrong.

ETA: Do we know where she was cutting, and if it would have been noticeable by the others in the household?

 

[Csquare]

I can say that in all of this, the self-mutilation, imo, is the most telling sign that there was something very wrong.

Do we know though if she had her arms exposed when she was out in public? Long sleves and thos rubber braclets could at conceal most of it so not to be as noticeable.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Well no matter what sort of music or clothes Allyssa liked, the armful of cuts should have been a HUGE warning sign to someone..

teacher, school nurse, therapist, grandparents whatever

At some level maybe they all share blame...

one reason I have brought up the Mormons is that they have been noted in other cases for sort of sweeping things under the table??

as long as her grades were ok maybe no one cared that her myspace showed a dark side or her wrists were all cut up ???

whatever, whoever...IMHO too late now...people who don't want to go to prison should not do things that send them there ...good advice

Allysa is still alive...poor Elizabeth isn't
let's not forget that

On this we agree and the whole Mormon thing is worth looking at as they do seem to have a sweep it under the rug mentality but then again so do Catholics and many other tight knit groups.