MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #12

[LogicalMinds]

Do we know though if she had her arms exposed when she was out in public? Long sleves and thos rubber braclets could at conceal most of it so not to be as noticeable.

BUT....they knew she had a history of suicide attempts/rantings...and a history of cutting herself

like...you don't check the blood sugar levels for most kids but if a kid has juvenile diabetes of course you have a blood sugar monitor/testing stuff

she had a history of cutting so they should have been looking for this
good grades aside....her arms may have told a different story

 

[LogicalMinds]

On this we agree and the whole Mormon thing is worth looking at as they do seem to have a sweep it under the rug mentality but then again so do Catholics and many other tight knit groups.

Remember the boy scout lost somewhere in the woods in some western state?? when he was "found" there was joy but also puzzle...he had heard the searchers, and was sort of hiding from them

from all indications this kid was autistic, had developmental/mental issues...but the family brushed it all off, devout Mormons

like the Scientologists, Mormans apparently don't like admitting certain non physical diseases.....they do have psychiatrists...but....I would question was the "therapy" that Allysa was getting mainstream or "Mormon"??

 

[droptoplesabre]

For me it was like being in a movie, things happened so fast and didn't seem real, and emotions came out of NOWHERE and were uncontrollable, so now that I'm thinking on it maybe.... but LSD isn't around anymore where I am???

i know this isnt what everbody is talking about right now,but i just wondered,,i heard AB was on a "3 day drug beng"? well,if they arrested her on friday,that would put the start of this "benge" on tuesday..wouldnt the teachers in her school notice her actions being "wierd"? i remember doing things when i was a :waitasec: (well,,younger,,much younger) and well,to be honost,,it was hard to "maintain" if you would. it just seems to me that if she killed someone on wednsday,,and was on this drug benge,,how did she maintain in classes on tuesday,and wednsday,,and especially wednsday evening? i have no "data" or i havent seen any "proof" she was on a drug benge,,but i'm afraid i'll have to respectfully dissagree that she even could have been,,ofcorse,if somebody has facts to this,please correct me..thank you.

 

[Dal Gal]

As a defense attorney I would put her parents, gps, her therapists AND prozac on trial, whatever it takes to get the jury to understand my client had no control over what she was doing. I would not suggest she walk out of court acquitted but I think she needs to be put in a hospital and not a prison.

Assuming she has a public defender, do you think they would really pull out ALL those stops? I mean, once you put a major pharmaceutical co. on trial it seems like major $$$ to prove.

Would a paid attorney treat the defense any differently? TIA

 

[AndresEscobar]

Assuming she has a public defender, do you think they would really pull out ALL those stops? I mean, once you put a major pharmaceutical co. on trial it seems like major $$$ to prove.

Would a paid attorney treat the defense any differently? TIA

The answer is: They shouldn't. With a case this big, with everyone watching, the attorney knew what they were getting into. The last thing this attorney wants to do is look like the lawyer that half-***ed the AB trial.

 

[not_my_kids]

Do we know though if she had her arms exposed when she was out in public? Long sleves and thos rubber braclets could at conceal most of it so not to be as noticeable.

Or she could have been cutting on her legs or her hips. It's not always the wrists.
I know that there are a lot of parents that see the marks and say "It's a phase, they're not that deep, she'll grow out if it." And usually they do, but what they are overlooking is the reason that people do this in the first place.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Remember the boy scout lost somewhere in the woods in some western state?? when he was "found" there was joy but also puzzle...he had heard the searchers, and was sort of hiding from them

from all indications this kid was autistic, had developmental/mental issues...but the family brushed it all off, devout Mormons

like the Scientologists, Mormans apparently don't like admitting certain non physical diseases.....they do have psychiatrists...but....I would question was the "therapy" that Allysa was getting mainstream or "Mormon"??

I am very interested to learn about this "therapy" she received.

 

[Dal Gal]

I am very interested to learn about this "therapy" she received.

The local media had reported that she received her therapy through Pathways. http://www.pathwaysonline.org/

ETA: "Juvenile officer David Cook testified that Bustamante has received mental health services since September 2007 after she attempted suicide. She had a 10-day stay in the mid-Missouri Mental Health Center after the attempt, and has received mental health services from Pathways Community Behavioral Healthcare in Jefferson City since."
http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

 

[not_my_kids]

I am very interested to learn about this "therapy" she received.

I'll add myself to that list. Very curious.
I know that therapy doesn't always work, it's not perfect, but it seems there should have been something that the therapist saw or heard that gave him/her a clue.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

Thanks...

everyone is so concened that Allyssa gets "help"...well she was getting help
what would people want them to give her?? she was disturbed, yes, so what should they have done??

I think a lot of the "turns people into a killer, makes them commit suicide" stuff is ridiculous...you are dealing some people who have already tried to commit suicide...or have other behavior/anger problems

this "group" of people will have a higher rate of suicide/violence to begin with..that is why they are in mental hospitals during "breakdowns", and why they are in "therapy" and why they are on anti-depressants, anti-psychotics

the drugs apparently work for many many people and allow them to live productive and satisfying lives

Ads are prescribed for other illnesses....and some of those stories are indexed on ssristories.

 

[Csquare]

On this we agree and the whole Mormon thing is worth looking at as they do seem to have a sweep it under the rug mentality but then again so do Catholics and many other tight knit groups.

A lot of churches do these as not to draw attention to their religion. I will say this that the Mormon church is a very Family oriented church.

 

[Csquare]

Remember the boy scout lost somewhere in the woods in some western state?? when he was "found" there was joy but also puzzle...he had heard the searchers, and was sort of hiding from them

from all indications this kid was autistic, had developmental/mental issues...but the family brushed it all off, devout Mormons

like the Scientologists, Mormans apparently don't like admitting certain non physical diseases.....they do have psychiatrists...but....I would question was the "therapy" that Allysa was getting mainstream or "Mormon"??

It was reported it was through Pathways which is mainstream.

 

[tlcya]

I'll add myself to that list. Very curious.
I know that therapy doesn't always work, it's not perfect, but it seems there should have been something that the therapist saw or heard that gave him/her a clue.

Well we know one thing, if her atty is worth anything those therapy sessions will be very prominately covered at trial. And if they are not trotted out by defense at trial then that in and of itself will be telling enough.

 

[Dal Gal]

Well we know one thing, if her atty is worth anything those therapy sessions will be very prominately covered at trial. And if they are not trotted out by defense at trial then that in and of itself will be telling enough.

It sure would be nice if TruTV's In Session would cover this trial, instead of some of the stuff they air!

 

[not_my_kids]

When I was 14, I developed mild depression, nothing too serious. Since I was in foster care, they had the right to force me to take the antidepressants. They put me on Celexa.

7 weeks later, I came out of the only fugue I have ever had in my life...hysterically screaming, watching myself cut my own wrists. Coincidence? I believe not.
Antidepressants are as dangerous as any other mind altering chemical, in my experience.

They didn't make me violent toward anyone else, only myself. So, I don't know if they could cause homicidal tendencies, and I don't think that AB could claim a fugue at the time, since she did dig holes and all the other stuff we have heard, confirmed or not.

 

[W8nC]

My opinion(s)..........

We have no evidence that Alyssa was into ICP music or was a Jugalette. I think that's irrelevent, but it was a very lively and informative discussion!

I don't think Alyssa was on a 3 day drug binge. She may or may not have been using illicit drugs at the time of the murder, or before, or after, or may have gone off her Prozac. IMO, it's not likely any illicit drugs "caused" her to dig graves on Friday and murder a child the following Wednesday. The Prozac affect, or lack thereof, may have played a part, not qualified to say.

Her hair, clothing, makeup, music choices are not inconsistent with those of her peer group. I know several of her friends and they are good kids. They use some foul language (not outrageous or extremely excessive, but some), some of them push the sexual boundaries a bit much for their age group (IMO), and they spend way too much time on the internet either playing online games (like WOW, boys only) or angsting on MS, FB, etc, over boyfriends and such. But they also participate in fund raisers for worthy charities, spend a lot of time practicing music (the ones I know play/sing in a band), read a lot (Twilight, etc), and get decent or better grades. They don't get in much trouble at school, never serious trouble, have involved parents, don't use drugs (that I know of), and are all currently focused on getting drivers licenses. Good, normal 15 year old kids who happen to have longish hair in their faces, wear too much eye liner, and mostly black clothing.

I had excellent parents, myself, but when I went to JCHS, I used drugs. At that time, nearly everyone did. If you didn't, you were ostracized. I also used alcohol. The 70's in JC were 100% drugs, sex, rock n'roll. It didn't matter how great your parents were, they had no affect. Kids do what their peers expect of them.

 

[Csquare]

As far as the therapy goes, I have seen kids that could fool thses professionals at least for a while. IF a child does not open up, or only tells so much, their is only so much you can do. I had not talked about my S/D with RAD til I got on this site. It was a period of time I do not wish to look back on with fondness. She had the school, DFS, Counselors, and Foster care convinced it was all the fault of her Mom. Then one day she couldn't hold it any longer and lost it. People got to see this cute, sweet, smart little girl at her worst. Who know if AB was able to fool her therapist.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Assuming she has a public defender, do you think they would really pull out ALL those stops? I mean, once you put a major pharmaceutical co. on trial it seems like major $$$ to prove.

Would a paid attorney treat the defense any differently? TIA

Well a public defender is not legally supposed to do any less work than a paid defender but sadly that is often the case. However, I dont know if this is a public defender or a private attorney that the judge appointed to do the case pro bono, in any case the defender will have public funds to draw from to put on his defense.

 

[not_my_kids]

It is very possible that she fooled her therapist. Obviously, she was fooling a lot of people, so it wouldn't surprise me.
Who sent her to therapy for her issues, was it her grandparents, or the state, school recommended? Did she ask for it?
Just curious, since if she didn't want to be there, very good chance she was fooling the therapist.

 

[Prof]

I am pretty sure the ICP suggestion originated from one of AB's friend's (allegedly) MS -- the friend evidently called herself a juggalette (sp?) -- there is some of this discussion found in thread #10 -- I think someone new posted a link -- this happened around the time that information on AB sneaking out to attend a concert was released -- I do know that ALL of the AB sites I visited had no mention of this group --

Honestly, I typically skip over these types of discussions on this site-- not paying attention, and sometimes that involves multiple pages that I just have to skim (like the last few pages) so I do not know if there is any other link to AB other than one of her MS friends

IMO I do hope that I am never analyzed by the friends on my social network sites!