MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #3

[Raebie]

And since I feel like ranting abit, I'll continue.

Just how in the hell must her friends and all of the kids be feeling right now? Shocked, numb, outraged, maybe guilty because they didn't see this coming and feel they should have? How are they supposed to process this and work through it in such an environment of secrecy? Nope, can't talk to counselors because no one is supposed to know who it is. Better make your myspace page private because god help you if you're caught posting about it. The lucky ones probably have parents they can talk to, but you can bet your life alot of them don't.

Who does that leave? How do they deal with this and start to heal? What in the hell is wrong with this picture??

I'm going to bump my own post to remind everyone on this forum who is sifting through these kid's blogs, that these CHILDREN are also victims of this crime. And NOTHING is being done to help them. Now I believe a drink is in order because I'm upset.

 

[lawlady84]

BTW LE CAN name name's in a juvenile case. They aren't naming names to keep from tainting potential jury polls and having to change venue.

No, some states require juvenile proceedings and records sealed.

 

[Kimster]

Hey you guys...I was looking around forums yesterday and discovered a person is going from forum to forum much like this ShadowNose was doing. Funny thing is that once they were banned from a forum, the Admin said they wondered how long they would last at WS. Sorry, just had to laugh cuz I thought it would be about this long and it was!!!

Let's not get into a big discussion about it though...Our mods are busy enough as it is!

TY Mods! WAY TO GO! I love it here!!!

 

[Jules71]

And POOF just like that they are gone.

 

[Animal04216]

Ok to clarify rumors are not allowed. By rumors I mean 3rd or 4th or more hand information. It is not a rumor if you are talking to someone and they say "whatever they saw or heard someone say" it is a rumor if they say "i heard from my cousing that Joes best friends neighbor saw this"


On the issue of locals and any info they want to post as fact, they must be verified by Tricia first.

 

[Raebie]

Hey you guys...I was looking around forums yesterday and discovered a person is going from forum to forum much like this ShadowNose was doing. Funny thing is that once they were banned from a forum, the Admin said they wondered how long they would last at WS. Sorry, just had to laugh cuz I thought it would be about this long and it was!!!

Let's not get into a big discussion about it though...Our mods are busy enough as it is!

TY Mods! WAY TO GO! I love it here!!!

Damn. I was so close to discovering the true meaning of life.

 

[mydailyopinions]

I really wish that people understood that when you claim to know something involving a crime that anytime you post online about that crime, it can and will be reported.
It scares me to even think of the amount of teenagers who know about this crime in detail and are focusing more on defending the perp than going to authorities with what they know.
I really, truly with all my heart hope that IP's are being logged here today!

 

[mycroft]

Mycroft - I am not sure I am familiar with the Grant case. When was it, and did it also involve a young killer who was released and then killed again? Thanks in advance for your reply.

Yes. No. Gina Grant killed her mother at 14. Smashed her skull in and then unsuccessfully tried to stage a suicide. She plead out in the juvie system. I think she got one year, and maybe probation for that time.)

She moved to a new town and became an honor student. She got accepted early admission to Harvard. Then they got a letter telling them what she had done and they rescinded their offer. It turned into a huge public debate about whether she should be allowed in anyway. She lied on the application, but IIRC her record had been sealed.

 

[Kimster]

Ok to clarify rumors are not allowed. By rumors I mean 3rd or 4th or more hand information. It is not a rumor if you are talking to someone and they say "whatever they saw or heard someone say" it is a rumor if they say "i heard from my cousing that Joes best friends neighbor saw this"


On the issue of locals and any info they want to post as fact, they must be verified by Tricia first.

THANK YOU ANIMAL! YOU ROCK!!! :woohoo:

 

[Animal04216]

Just so you know, yes Tricia does comply with subpoenas....

I really wish that people understood that when you claim to know something involving a crime that anytime you post online about that crime, it can and will be reported.
It scares me to even think of the amount of teenagers who know about this crime in detail and are focusing more on defending the perp than going to authorities with what they know.
I really, truly with all my heart hope that IP's are being logged here today!

 

[mydailyopinions]

Seriously this concerns me..
This is a teenager we are talking about..
How many teenage girls would do something such as this, or plan something such as this without telling people?
Something tells me that many, many people could have saved this child's life..
It is terribly upsetting to even think if one person would have came forward, she would be smiling at everyone today!

 

[Animal04216]

I do not normally post on my threads, but I just have to say that I agree with this....

Seriously this concerns me..
This is a teenager we are talking about..
How many teenage girls would do something such as this, or plan something such as this without telling people?
Something tells me that many, many people could have saved this child's life..
It is terribly upsetting to even think if one person would have came forward, she would be smiling at everyone today!

 

[gliving]

"Cole County Circuit Judge Jon Beetem did open the courtroom for arguments on whether people should be allowed to observe a Nov. 18 hearing to determine whether the teen should be tried as an adult. Beetem said he would announce his decision in writing.

Kurt Valentine, the teen's lawyer, said Elizabeth's death has put Jefferson City in "turmoil" and that opening the hearing could hamper the chances for a fair trial.

"There's been a lot of speculation, but now we will have in giant headlines my client's name," Valentine said. "There is no way in the world that could possibly be in the best interest of this particular juvenile."

Samantha Green, the attorney for the juvenile office, argued that the state Supreme Court has ruled that hearings can be open for juveniles accused of crimes that would be the most serious felonies if committed by an adult. She said court records and the exhibits to be presented could be closed or sealed to protect the suspect's privacy."

snipped: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iL2APTMLoOIa6NBqXxEd_DKqAkDQD9BK8UGO5

 

[NewMommy09]

I think I first brought up Twilight - I didn't mean to group it with anything. Some of ABs friends' had "Forks, Washington" as their location on their myspace profile, and I thought it meant they were from Washington state (and therefore they either didn't know AB in person or AB used to live somewhere else). Then someone told me no that's the setting of the Twilight books.

I've never read the books, but I don't think it means anything - my officemate rescheduled a deposition so she could get tickets to the first showing when the first movie came out. And she's about as square as a person can get.

Not at all lawlady.
I completely understood your posts concerning Twilight in reference to the MS pages and friends of AB, and why they were showing up as Washington locations. I was referring more to some other posts that seemed to be relating Twilight to Goth and Emo cultures, and seemed to coin them as "dark". I was a little confused as to why someone would consider them the same thing. To me, being a Twilight fan is no different than being a fan of Harry Potter, or even Roald Dahl books, etc. etc. It's not a way of life, or a culture or style. It's just a very popular series that has taken on a life of it's own franchise-wise, as well as causing a huge interest in anything vampire.

 

[Raebie]

At this point, I think the best thing the judge can do is open up the hearing. This case needs all the sunshine it can get so these kids can talk about it openly and hopefully start to heal.

 

[Kimster]

Lillyanne,

Is there anything we can help you with? There are generations of wisdom here and our hearts go out to you and your friends.

 

[Salem]

Respectfully snipped and bolded ~

I am just making sure that I am clear on what I can and cannot post, too.

Patty has provided Tricia's definition of a WS rumor posted to a "Rumor" forum.

A rumor forum in my reading would allow gossip or discussion of what is "out there" (or rumored in mutiple places), but that information has no clear or immediately credible source. For example, Everyone is saying that the suspect in custody wanted to know what it is like to watch someone die, but we don't know where that information comes from, so it is a rumor that belongs in a rumor forum. Rumors are allowed in a "rumor" forum, but those rumors must be based on information "out there" in Rumorville, such as comments made by locals in local media. The second part of the statement, I read as a warning that the WS post should not start new rumors.


However, I am still confused about how the above statement applies to this forum. For example, LE has not confirmed the address or name of the killer, nor has any family member, yet our astute WS members sleuthed the address, and name of the killer by property records, and court records.
I take it as an acceptable discussion in this forum, (though not confirmed by LE or family) because it is information that can be substantiated and traced back to credible sources (although may not to LE or family). Is this correct?

This is a working theory NOT a fact, we DO NOT know who the killer is, that information has not been released. We know from official info (LE, media) that the suspect is a 15-year old girl that lives near Elizabeth.

This is what we do at WS and sometimes we walk a mighty fine line. However, based on official information from LE, media, and/or family our great sleuths have developed a THEORY of who the killer is and they continue to use the few facts and little official information we have to test and retest the theory.

In this particular case, because almost all sleuths are onboard with this "theory" of the suspect, the boundaries between fact, rumor and theory are a little more blurred then normal. Typically, we don't all agree and we are much more careful about clarifying our posts as "theory" or "speculation."

I hope that makes sense. I think this is why we are having so much trouble with the "rumor" talk.

Salem

 

[danni]

I know the school board said there was/were/would be counselors at the school. My question is does anyone knows if these counselors are completly refusing to talk to these children about being AB's friend (obviously these kids/teens think the same thing we do about who the POI is)? Are they totally shutting out the idea that these kids are coming to them and wanting to talk about this but because she has not been "outed" to the public they can't talk about it with these kids?

I know kids are less likely to go to an adult to talk about this stuff but I don't get where the "they have no one to talk to except eachother" idea/mentality is coming from if there is in fact counselors in school. Thus the reason i asked the question!

 

[swanniee11]

I just wanted to clarify that when I said to go back to MS comments from friends, it was not to pry ( although I guess thats exactly what I was doing) but to read the "shock" these kids are going through, some even saying they wish they knew so they could have done something. It saddens me that normal 15yr olds have to grow up so fast and deal with such sorrow.IMO

 

[Jules71]

I'm finding one who says if he was there he could have stopped it. It is troubling for sure.