MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #3

[Raebie]

Ha, I just looked through her friend's myspace pictures. She should have reminded her friends not to post "AB...why u do it?" underneath pictures of her... Come on. Is there something in the water out there that these kids don't have any common sense?

They're 15 & 16 year old kids. I'm amazed it's taken them this long to start talking about it. Amazing restraint if you ask me.

And what outlet do these kids have to deal with this if it's so hush hush? Only each other. That bothers me more than anything.

 

[lawlady84]

Everyone keeps on saying that there is no new information, and not to post rumors. However, people don't realize that the only known facts about the possible POI is that they are female, 15 y/o, and elizabeth knew who they were. Given the shear number of children in that household and their varying ages, that only leaves about 600 suspects that could be the POI. I know the rumors that are flying around that high-school and around the local area. But you say not to post rumors, when that is all that is coming from this thread, a bunch of gossip and theories.

I'm not saying AB isn't the POI, there is that possibility, but no-one knows that it is her, and if they do "know" for a fact I would like to know the "credible" person they got their info from.

A warrant was served at *advertiser censored* Lomo Drive. A court record search of that address brought up a guardianship proceeding involving 3 children, one a 15 year old girl, AB. As soon as the media reported about the warrant, the guardianship case documents were removed from the CaseNet website. Did LE say right out who it was? No. But I think this is pretty good evidence.

And - locals with children in the school have said they heard it was AB (after we decided it based on court records).

 

[Jules71]

I think a lot of locals are posting comments on the news story sites and they believe they know who it is because she is not at school???

Plus there is other info to go on, like a warrant was served a few houses away from Elizabeth's. Articles have been published saying it is a female, age 15, who lives at the house E was visiting. People are following the clues that are out there. Then you have friends of hers posting on ms asking AB why she did it.

 

[ShadowNose]

I'm not going to perpetuate these rumors any further. If she isn't in school maybe she has H1N1, maybe she got hurt, or she might be the POI. All I'm saying is that rumors are all this website is posting, and no-one here can step forward with credible evidence saying who the killer was.

 

[Jules71]

A warrant was served at *advertiser censored* Lomo Drive. A court record search of that address brought up a guardianship proceeding involving 3 children, one a 15 year old girl, AB. As soon as the media reported about the warrant, the guardianship case documents were removed from the CaseNet website. Did LE say right out who it was? No. But I think this is pretty good evidence.

And - locals with children in the school have said they heard it was AB (after we decided it based on court records).

I agree!

 

[lawlady84]

They're 15 & 16 year old kids. I'm amazed it's taken them this long to start talking about it. Amazing restraint if you ask me.

And what outlet do these kids have to deal with this if it's so hush hush? Only each other. That bothers me more than anything.

Yeah, you're right. Its just this girl has tons of pictures of them together. It leads me to believe AB must have had serious issues in the past or has talked about this with her friends - otherwise I'd think the comments would be "no way could she have done this!! we support you!" etc. At least from best friends!

 

[danni]

Here is a question, how are they going to get her to and from the court room without someone seeing her? I am sure locals exp locals with kids are going to know her face and know who she is. Is all hearings going to be conference call types deals from the juvenile center??

I know many court houses have a garage type deal where the car pulls in and the offender gets out and goes into court without having to come into close contact but you can still see the offender when the car drives by.

This is how everyone got the first pictures of Michael Devlin, the man that abducted Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownby.

 

[Lunar1121]

I'm not going to perpetuate these rumors any further. If she isn't in school maybe she has H1N1, maybe she got hurt, or she might be the POI. All I'm saying is that rumors are all this website is posting, and no-one here can step forward with credible evidence saying who the killer was.

I guess her friends are asking her on MS "why did you do it?" because they want to know why she give herself H1N1? Yeah, nope!

 

[ShadowNose]

Plus there is other info to go on, like a warrant was served a few houses away from Elizabeth's. Articles have been published saying it is a female, age 15, who lives at the house E was visiting. People are following the clues that are out there. Then you have friends of hers posting on ms asking AB why she did it.

If you would have watched the news this morning at 6:00am you would have seen Sheriff White state why there was a warrant was served there. It was served on basis of a ticket, not a murder. Also, Don't you remember being in High-school? As soon as these kids here a rumor they stick to it (as though it were fact) until someone proves it wrong.

 

[nursebeeme]

Here is a question, how are they going to get her to and from the court room without someone seeing her? I am sure locals exp locals with kids are going to know her face and know who she is. Is all hearings going to be conference call types deals from the juvenile center??

I know many court houses have a garage type deal where the car pulls in and the offender gets out and goes into court without having to come into close contact but you can still see the offender when the car drives by.

This is how everyone got the first pictures of Michael Devlin, the man that abducted Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownby.

video teleconference

 

[Raebie]

And since I feel like ranting abit, I'll continue.

Just how in the hell must her friends and all of the kids be feeling right now? Shocked, numb, outraged, maybe guilty because they didn't see this coming and feel they should have? How are they supposed to process this and work through it in such an environment of secrecy? Nope, can't talk to counselors because no one is supposed to know who it is. Better make your myspace page private because god help you if you're caught posting about it. The lucky ones probably have parents they can talk to, but you can bet your life alot of them don't.

Who does that leave? How do they deal with this and start to heal? What in the hell is wrong with this picture??

 

[lillyanne]

I just have to ask, why is Twilight being referred to in the same light as Emo and Goth culture? The only relation I really see is the fad aspect of all 3. Although Goth style has been around for over a decade now, and I don't know that you can call it a fad.

I have read the Twilight series multiple times. Those, and Harry Potter are my favorite books to read PERIOD. I am a complete book worm, and these books are just so much fun. I'm about to turn 30, so I am not the typical audience these books are aimed at. I'm also a mother, engaged, and have settled down in life, so to speak. I have many friends my age, and many older than myself, who ALSO love these books.

If the relation is being made because of the vampires, I must say that these are "vegetarian vampires" who feed from animals so as not to hurt/kill humans. There are actually quite a few virtues the author maintains through the story, such as no premarital sex, no drug use, etc.
I understand that many people don't understand the mass popularity of Twilight, and that's fine. We are all entitled to our opinion. I am just a bit confused about why Twilight is being related to Goth or Emo cultures, other than that many of the fans may ALSO subscribe to said styles. In actuality there is more death, and horror in Harry Potter than in Twilight.

I know I'm not supposed to post anything related to the AB, so I'll keepthis as vague as possible...
Twilight is totally innocent as a book/movie series, and over the past year it's developed into it's own sub-culture. A lot of people refer to it as "softcore goth".

(And Harry Potter is non-comparable to Twilight. imo )

 

[savermom]

I think its not guilty by reason of insanity that your talking about. Its actually very difficult to be found not guilty by reason of insanity or mental disease or defect. You can be very ill (schizophrenia, bipolar I, affective, etc.) and not meet the legal definition.

People who are found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect are usually committed to the Dept of Mental Health for an undetermined amount of time.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see that happening here. As I said, it is very difficult -- much more than most people realize, to get this verdict and I think it would be especially difficult in Missouri. I suspect they will go for dual jurisdiction. She'll be handed over to youth services until she ages out and hopefully will be removed from society for a very, very long time.

This is my first post and I hope I do it right! I just wanted to agree with this and add to it that my stepmom is a nurse that has a lot of experience in psychiatric units. She told me that you can be medically insane but not legally insane. To be legally insane, you have to have lost the ability to differentiate between right and wrong (I am sure it is more complicated than that, but you get the idea). So, just as a hypothetical example, someone who heard voices that told him to kill someone and then covered it up and ran off so as not to get caught...that is likely someone who is disturbed, yes, but also realized what he did was wrong. Hope that made sense.

I began reading here when the Caylee Anthony and Nancy Cooper stories broke but finally decided to join the group today. You sleuthers are amazing!

 

[lawlady84]

If you would have watched the news this morning at 6:00am you would have seen Sheriff White state why there was a warrant was served there. It was served on basis of a ticket, not a murder. Also, Don't you remember being in High-school? As soon as these kids here a rumor they stick to it (as though it were fact) until someone proves it wrong.

Oh, AND it was reported that she doesn't live with her parents, she lives with her grandmother. The guardianship proceeding listed ABs grandmother as the grandmother. There are no other 15 year old girls living walking distance from Elizabeth's house.

And, why would the county court suddenly pull the guardianship record from the website? Because they realized you could look up the address from where the warrant was served and see a 15 year old girl. IF it was just a "coincidence" LE would have to just announce that 15 year old girl was NOT the suspect - you can't just pull court records in the public domain for no reason. Especially since MO has a sunshine law.

There has to be good cause - and there is if the law requires LE to not name juveniles accused of crime.

 

[mydailyopinions]

I'm not going to perpetuate these rumors any further. If she isn't in school maybe she has H1N1, maybe she got hurt, or she might be the POI. All I'm saying is that rumors are all this website is posting, and no-one here can step forward with credible evidence saying who the killer was.

Welcome to websleuths!
If you go through the forums here, you will see that we sleuth out all possible scenarios when things like this occur dating all the way back to JBR.
No one here is trying to step forward with credible evidence, we are here just to try to figure things out..Many of us will be so wrong while others will be so right!
I hope you stick around and follow through some of the other forums here. They are very educational and very well put together by the members!

 

[Kimster]

Hi Savermom!!!

 

[nursebeeme]

welcome to websleuths savermom, lillyanne and anyone else I missed! We are glad to have you here!

 

[Jules71]

WELCOME SAVERMOM!!! Glad to have you here!

 

[ShadowNose]

BTW LE CAN name name's in a juvenile case. They aren't naming names to keep from tainting potential jury polls and having to change venue.

 

[lawlady84]

To clarify, I'm not saying I think the warrant/guardianship/address/myspace evidence shows AB is the killer, I'm saying I think its sufficient to conclude she's the person taken into custody. We haven't seen any real evidence of the crime yet.