MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #3

[celticthyme]

Boy, this entire horrific thing this entire community is dealing with now is just so overwhelming. Not only are all the young folks, traumatized but this horrific act, but parents, teachers and the whole area.

It sounds like both of these young kids have had to deal with some very difficult life situations, and now both are lost.
I just have to say that my prayers and thoughts are with the families , freinds and folks in this community. I do hope that social Services and community organizations will be coming forward to help and heal this traumatized and grieving community

So much senseless horror these past 2 weeks

 

[fireflyofhope]

LE needs to see this, IMO!

ETA: And I think they have, so please don't think I suggest this be sent in.

Also, I don't think we are supposed to refer to MS. Let's delete these posts, k?

there is also a very weird blog written in 2008 about a girl named Elizabeth that dies.....very weird

 

[winterrose]

I see everyone's point about the way people dress. My 18 yo just went to his college classes today dressed "emo" and he's a goal-oriented kid with two difficult majors in a well-known university.

I'm not talking about clothes...I'm talking about lifestyle. I'm talking about people who think evil is cool.

Yep,the changes become more than what they wear,thier personalities and habits change.You can tell the difference.

 

[fireflyofhope]

GMTA! :highfive:

Welcome to Websleuths, too!!!

Thank you You all are the greatest! My heart is broken for Elizabeth

 

[Kimster]

Ted Bundy was a dear friend of Ann Rule, ("The Stranger Beside Me") she had no clue he was going around killing people. Was he doing it because his friends thought it was cool. NO he was doing it for the thrill of killing, because he was a SERIAL KILLER! Ann worked for/with the police in Seattle Police Department and even when the word was getting around that Ted was the killer she did not believe it. Even when he ws locked up for all the murders she still didn't believe it.

This was a VERY well educated woman who had studied MANY of these cases in the past. So the fact that some of these 15 and 16 year olds don't see HOW their friend could do this, does NOT suprise me.

My opinion if someone is going to kill they are going to do it no matter what they look like, or what their friends think of it!

I respect your opinion but Bundy was an adult. I guess I believe that teenagers' minds can still be formed. That is not to say that this girl wouldn't have ended up murdering her husband or someone else when she became an adult, though.

If I had a teen who was getting involved with this stuff too heavily, I would make them stop and divert them to something else. That is how I raised my boys and it worked for them as they are now goal-oriented adults.

 

[Prof]

PROF! Thank you! Even tho I was searching, I missed that post! I'm slow today!

ETA: According to the post that I linked to from JBean (not referring to this thread) it appears that some topics are allowed different guidelines than others. I am guessing that Admin is trying to decide that for us now.

I think you might want to thank Patty, as Patty posted Tricia's comment from the rumor forum here in this forum.

Thank you for your extremely helpful posts today. I am looking forward to hearing what the admins say on this topic. We have quite a few locals on this topic willing to share their insight. I hope they will be allowed.

 

[swanniee11]

I have been lurking for ages and only posted once on this thread ... First, I want to send my regards to lillyanne. It isn't only Elizabeth's friends and family that are hurting but the friends and family of AB who have "lost" a friend in her too. I am so sorry for that! Second, using the word "franchise" at the sophmore level is not "too smart". Whoever said that is just dumbing all our students down by acting like that is such a hard word for them to comprehend! Lastly, there is a lot of talk about goth, emo, and scene going on which is fine but IMO that has no bearing on a person's choice to act in a certain manner in which they know is wrong. So, talk all you want about it, as there isn't much else to talk about until we get more details, but a person with blue hair black nails cateye contacts and so on (obviously being overdramatic here) can make good decisions just the same as someone who is wearing a catholic school girl uniform and prays to Jesus every night ... ya get?!!?

GREAT SLEUTHING THOUGH PEOPLE, TRULY AND HONESTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree about the Goth look comments. These kids are going changes and expressing themselves trying to find who they are or to tick off parents. Who knows. I think its easier for us to question the look since there is a crime here however this wouldnt make her a criminal IMO. Just like children assuming that strangers are scary men dressed in black.

On another note, there has been some activity on the MS forum where we've looked before. I"m not sure if I can quote or what I can say ( everyone's scarying me with the 2 wk TO threat) So i'm whispering this info. Hope this is ok. UGH

 

[PeriodicalCuriosity]

there is a short blog she wrote to AB

Yeah, I saw that and a comment on one of the pictures.

 

[Lunar1121]

Yes yes...I think I know what you are saying. This girl would have still had her problems within her if the goth or emo lifestyles hadn't been created. These are just outlets for these kinds of kids, is what I'm trying to say.

However, if the dark side of these lifestyles weren't cool, would a child be less apt to commit a horrible act because it wasn't acceptable to their peers? I think that is the question.

That's what I don't get (bolded by me) anything can be an outlet for any kid. I don't get what those outlets have to do with giving into your inner temptations to do something bad.

With the whole goth, emo, scene, preppy, bible hugger, etc. lifestyles there is always choice. No one even knows exactly what those lifestyles intail for the most part anyways. I mean just look at this board ... there are so many different definitions going around about every group. They are just styles ... if a group of people is depressed and feels like killing animals for the fun of it that doesn't make them hardcore emo or whatever the hell but it just makes them people with issues who have bonded over those issues and who happen to dress themselves in the emo style. I dunno, that is just my take. I just don't see what emo, goth, scene, etc. has to play in this murder?!!?

I had a friend in high school who was full on goth ... her and her twin sister. I didn't care for her sister, just didn't click, but Kel and I became great friends. I was a preppy cheerleader mind you, lol. She was an amazing artist and had the biggest heart ... we didn't agree on music, colors, dress, etc. but our personalities were right on par!!!

 

[msfittz]

I'm sorry, but I have to put my 2 cents in here...

Dressing Goth - Emo or anything else has nothing to do with this.

Just because one dresses a certain way doesn't make them the "bad guy" (or girl) - It's what's in that person's own personal make-up that causes them to do certain things.

The bad thing - styles of dress or the way one wears their hair is being perpetuated (not saying on here - but everywhere) with bad connotations.

Cops wear uniforms and we've been taught all our lives that we can trust a cop - that they are the "good people"... Well guess what...they aren't all good. Same with Ministers, Teachers, people who profess to be of various religious faiths, Firefighters, etc., etc., etc.

Too often times we let appearances (whether it be good or bad) determine what we are going to believe about a person - and too often times we're wrong to think what we do.

Obviously all people who dress in an alternative manner aren't bad...most cops who put on a uniform aren't bad - but within those groups, unfortunately there are some who are - but we can't hold everyone accountable in those groups for the "rotten apples"...

Obviously if AB did this (and it appears she did), she has a great many mental issues - and who wouldn't in her situation. I'm not trying to excuse her in any way... I just am saying to look at it from the perspective of her as the person - not the dress.

ITA. I don't care if AB dressed like Holly Hobby - it would make her no less evil.

I wonder what she's wearing now...

 

[Kimster]

I think you might want to thank Patty, as Patty posted Tricia's comment from the rumor forum here in this forum.

Thank you for your extremely helpful posts today. I am looking forward to hearing what the admins say on this topic. We have quite a few locals on this topic willing to share their insight. I hope they will be allowed.

Thank you, PattyG!!!

 

[BellaSC]

Im a lurker gone registered member. color me stupid but I cannot find anywhere in this thread how to find her twitter name
anyone want to clarify?

 

[Kimster]

You too, Periodical Curiosity!

 

[NewMommy09]

I just have to ask, why is Twilight being referred to in the same light as Emo and Goth culture? The only relation I really see is the fad aspect of all 3. Although Goth style has been around for over a decade now, and I don't know that you can call it a fad.

I have read the Twilight series multiple times. Those, and Harry Potter are my favorite books to read PERIOD. I am a complete book worm, and these books are just so much fun. I'm about to turn 30, so I am not the typical audience these books are aimed at. I'm also a mother, engaged, and have settled down in life, so to speak. I have many friends my age, and many older than myself, who ALSO love these books.

If the relation is being made because of the vampires, I must say that these are "vegetarian vampires" who feed from animals so as not to hurt/kill humans. There are actually quite a few virtues the author maintains through the story, such as no premarital sex, no drug use, etc.
I understand that many people don't understand the mass popularity of Twilight, and that's fine. We are all entitled to our opinion. I am just a bit confused about why Twilight is being related to Goth or Emo cultures, other than that many of the fans may ALSO subscribe to said styles. In actuality there is more death, and horror in Harry Potter than in Twilight.

 

[SommerSunshine]

A little OT: Maybe I'm just super protective of my favorite series right now...but Twilight is really not that dark at all. Sure I'm an adult and can distinguish things a little better, but if "AB" is a fan of twilight I can't imagine that this would have any bearing on the alleged act she commited. Just my :twocents: of course.

 

[Kimster]

Hi BellaSC!

We are not allowed to refer to that, due to her being a minor. Those who found out did it on their own...

 

[lawlady84]

I agree about the clothes not making the person, I posted maybe on the last thread how when I was that age I dressed "emo," went to concerts, quoted sappy songs in my AOL profile, moped around - but I never drank, smoked, had sex, or got in any trouble, and neither did my friends. I think maybe its a little easier to find trouble in certain places, but good kids who are raised by attentive caregivers will stay out of trouble and avoid the bad kids, even in "alternative" scenes.

Also, thinking objectively, I bet most of us here read a lot more macabre things than these teenagers. At 15 I listened to music about dying, but not until law school/WS did I know anything about decomposition! Think about all the awful crime stuff we all read about on a daily basis. Sure we're doing it because we care about the victims and want justice, but we're still looking at autopsy photos.

 

[Kimster]

Actually, we do not accept members under 13 due to the COPPA rules.

Lillyanne said she is 15. After she meets Tricia, I hope she returns. Let's all remember she is a young lady with a lot to sort out. Let's give her the help she needs. :blowkiss:

 

[Kimster]

I agree about the clothes not making the person, I posted maybe on the last thread how when I was that age I dressed "emo," went to concerts, quoted sappy songs in my AOL profile, moped around - but I never drank, smoked, had sex, or got in any trouble, and neither did my friends. I think maybe its a little easier to find trouble in certain places, but good kids who are raised by attentive caregivers will stay out of trouble and avoid the bad kids, even in "alternative" scenes.

Also, thinking objectively, I bet most of us here read a lot more macabre things than these teenagers. At 15 I listened to music about dying, but not until law school/WS did I know anything about decomposition! Think about all the awful crime stuff we all read about on a daily basis. Sure we're doing it because we care about the victims and want justice, but we're still looking at autopsy photos.

Oh my gosh..that just reminded me of my own transgression....When I was in high school, an Elton John song came out called "Think I'm Gonna Kill Myself". I would play it on my record player and sing along LOUDLY for my mom to hear whenever I was serving a consequence.

EEEEEkkkkk...how embarrassing to think about that now!

 

[gxm]

Im a lurker gone registered member. color me stupid but I cannot find anywhere in this thread how to find her twitter name
anyone want to clarify?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased MO-Elizabeth Olten, 9, St. Martins Thread #3


ETA: Welcome to the board!