MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #5

[Jamiejy]

That youtube acct is a bit scary, isn't it? I mean how many people (15 or otherwise) would list their "hobbies" as killing & cutting people?

And if you look at the comments there is another young person with the same name just added numbers to the end.

 

[Jules71]

Yes and they are things to think about. What did LE or the press specify? Did they say "called" or something more ambiguous like "contacted by cell phone?"

On the other hand, I think AB had plenty of time to do what she intended to do, especially if she had done preparation beforehand. Someone else mentioned that they thought she was killed at that site - I agree. I think its possible AB offered to walk her home because of her fear of the dark or followed her and/or led or forced her there, possibly at knifepoint.

Remember LE has said that Elizabeth was killed around the time the call was placed and that location was "several hundred yards" from the house. I'm guessing 10 to 20 minutes to get to the location and less time for AB to get back.

LE would also spend some time with Elizabeth's mother getting info.

Right. I had forgotten about the statement that they believed she was killed around the time of the call.

It is about 900-1000 yards from AB's house to E's house. How would you interpret "several hundred yards"?

 

[vjlaw]

Is he a public defender appointed to her?

Kurt Valentine is not a public defender. Depending how much money on hand the grandparents have, she could be assigned one later. The public defenders offices are overwhelmed in Missouri.

 

[Lola]

Interestingly, the judge, Jon Beetem, who presided at the guardianship hearing for AB's grandparents is also hearing the certification as to whether or not she will stand trial as an adult. He must be fully aware of all circumstances surrounding her home life.

 

[Jules71]

This looks like the reason her mom called police so quickly:

Elizabeth Olten disappeared on October 21 about 6:15 p.m. while walking home from a friend's house. She never made it home and by 7 p.m., because 9-year-old Elizabeth was afraid of the dark and the woods by which she walked home, the Olten family called the police. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2333070/elizabeth_olten_case_15yearold_girl.html?cat=17

 

[Bibliophile]

It is about 900-1000 yards from AB's house to E's house. How would you interpret "several hundred yards"?

I recall her body being found being found "several hundred yards" into the woods, but I don't know if they meant from AB's house or Elizabeth's. I think they were indicating it was several hundred yards into the woods from the pathway the kids usually walked through the backyards.

 

[Cortne]

I recall her body being found being found "several hundred yards" into the woods, but I don't know if they meant from AB's house or Elizabeth's. I think they were indicating it was several hundred yards into the woods from the pathway the kids usually walked through the backyards.

I recall this as well...

I know I cannot ask for links to the you tube stuff but may I ask what I might do to locate them myself? :waitasec:

 

[danni]

I recall her body being found being found "several hundred yards" into the woods, but I don't know if they meant from AB's house or Elizabeth's. I think they were indicating it was several hundred yards into the woods from the pathway the kids usually walked through the backyards.

I might be totally off here but I thought I heard them say that her body was found several hundred yards behind her OWN home.

First of all would interperate several hundred anything from 300-1000
Here is my question, there is a pond that is behind AB's house, back in the woods a little bit, do you think she could have used that to clean up?

 

[Bibliophile]

This looks like the reason her mom called police so quickly:

No doubt it was probably the descending darkness that prompted her mom to call. Elizabeth may have been one of those kids that completely freaked out and in no way would be out in the dark.

On October 21st, the sun set at 6:22 p.m.. The end of civil twilight was 6:49 p.m..

It should have been about a 3-5 minute walk and if Elizabeth's mom was watching for her, she probably went out calling for. The distance is so short, I am sure it didn't take long for her to panic.

 

[Raebie]

Something else I've been thinking. What if the kids (AB, her sister, maybe a brother or two) were already out in the woods playing when Elizabeth's mom called or texted? Perhaps AB sent the others home saying that Elizabeth had to leave and that only the two of them out there alone in the vicinity she where
was found. That would have given her alot more time to do what was done as opposed to luring her out there once Elizabeth's mom called.

 

[gliving]

There is a HUGE HUGE HUGE factor that we have failed to catch and just occured to me this mornong when re-reaeding the posts from last night.

She may have been a drug/alcohol baby. I strongly suspect tha is the case as mom and dad are proven drug users. Mom was young when she got pregnant and most likely did not realize she was pregnant or seel pre-natal care early in the pregnancy. Either way I suspect she would have done drugs or drank at some point during her pregnancy.

There is no telling the amount of mental damage that could cause. If there is even a chance of this being the case you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be a large part of AB's defence.

Now that I got that idea in my head I can just see this going in a milion different directions.

MDATCA, if AB has a defect from her mother's use during pregnancy, it would be an irreversible biological defect; one that can not be rehabilitated ie: fetal alcohol syndrome. I think he would skip over that in a flash. He'll try to prove she has teen angst or something that can be helped through rehab. Otherwise, it's lock her up and throw away the key. She's damaged goods.

 

[Bibliophile]

Here is my question, there is a pond that is behind AB's house, back in the woods a little bit, do you think she could have used that to clean up?

I don't think she needed to.

 

[*~Aimee~*]

I recall this as well...

I know I cannot ask for links to the you tube stuff but may I ask what I might do to locate them myself? :waitasec:

be on look out for it. hope this helps you. ​

 

[Bibliophile]

MDATCA, if AB has a defect from her mother's use during pregnancy, it would be an irreversible biological defect; one that can not be rehabilitated ie: fetal alcohol syndrome.

But she could still receive a lighter sentence with "Diminished mental capacity."

That's why it may be better that she is not tried as an adult and instead under dual jurisdiction. Under DJ she can still receive life without parole, be sent to a juvenile institution until she ages out and then on to the Dept of Corrections.

 

[danni]

I don't think she needed to.

You don't think there was any blood involved?

another quesiton.
When PD showed up would they have came lights and sirens?
If they did and AB was still in the woods she would have heard that. Giving her signal to get out of there.

 

[danni]

But she could still receive a lighter sentence with "Diminished mental capacity."

That's why it may be better that she is not tried as an adult and instead under dual jurisdiction. Under DJ she can still receive life without parole, be sent to a juvenile institution until she ages out and then on to the Dept of Corrections.

I think DJ would be the best case. BECAUSE, even if she is tried as an adult the max she would get is life without parole, she is to young for a death penalty case.

 

[gliving]

But she could still receive a lighter sentence with "Diminished mental capacity."

That's why it may be better that she is not tried as an adult and instead under dual jurisdiction. Under DJ she can still receive life without parole, be sent to a juvenile institution until she ages out and then on to the Dept of Corrections.

Yes, but how do they fit in her being on the honor roll and top 85% in math? No diminished mental capacity here. Equestrian and fencing awards; no physical handicaps.

MOO> she's toast.

 

[vjlaw]

I think DJ would be the best case. BECAUSE, even if she is tried as an adult the max she would get is life without parole, she is to young for a death penalty case.

Didn't LE already ask that she be tried as an adult? If so, then they think that is the best way to go also.

 

[Bibliophile]

You don't think there was any blood involved?

We have heard through blogs and boards that she was strangled and had knife wounds. Think about forensics for a moment. If strangulation was the actual cause of death, the heart had stopped. If the knife wounds were inflicted postmortem, there would be no splatter.

Gruesome and horrible, but it helps it to make more sense.

another quesiton.
When PD showed up would they have came lights and sirens?
If they did and AB was still in the woods she would have heard that. Giving her signal to get out of there.

I don't think they would have used sirens responding to a call of a lost or missing child.

 

[Bibliophile]

Yes, but how do they fit in her being on the honor roll and top 85% in math? No diminished mental capacity here. Equestrian and fencing awards; no physical handicaps.

MOO> she's toast.

Well that would be a great point for the prosecution, but expert testimony could tear it to shreds. Its very well known that certain injuries or substances can affect a particular part of the brain and you still remain very intelligent - must like cerebral palsy or even ADHD.

But I'm just playing devil's advocate. I want her to be locked away for life.