MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #8

[gliving]

Terrain Sample:

Thanks crimecurious,
I wonder why they built the pond furthest back from the road. Not that it matters, but that's a lot of work/money and it doesn't look like room enough for cattle.

 

[gliving]

I was just looking at the property layout. Most if not all of you know where the NEW house sets. After looking at this map you can see that there is an utility line easement, from the map it apears that the clearing is about 50 foot wide. After seeing this my mind went right to this post that I wrote a while ago!

I wonder...could the NEAR yet DEEP that they are talking about be in the easement behind AB's house?
It would be easy to get to, and it would be easier to dig than in the woods. If the utility comp. had been doing any tree trimming, or general work back there lately it would be a great cover up too.

JAT

Great post danni. I brought it to the new page so it wouldn't be missed. It would be an easy lane to ride an ATV.

 

[crimecurious]

Thanks crimecurious,
I wonder why they built the pond furthest back from the road. Not that it matters, but that's a lot of work/money and it doesn't look like room enough for cattle.

The pond is actually someone else's property. From what I can tell from NG map (if that's reliable at all) is that the "scene" was just slightly down from the pond. I dunno if my earlier maps were deleted for TMI (so sorry), but if you can find the addy's and look very closely, there's a "trail running from the road, back to the pond... good for moving quickly.

 

[danni]

The pond is actually someone else's property. From what I can tell from NG map (if that's reliable at all) is that the "scene" was just slightly down from the pond. I dunno if my earlier maps were deleted for TMI (so sorry), but if you can find the addy's and look very closely, there's a "trail running from the road, back to the pond... good for moving quickly.

I must have missed that map. I am going to go look for it!

 

[crimecurious]

This is NOT from AB's home, but somewhere that EO would have passed...

 

[danni]

This is NOT from AB's home, but somewhere that EO would have passed...

Is this a "recreate" of NG map?

ETA: If this is the case then the murder and burial were done neither behind EO's house nor AB's house!

 

[Bibliophile]

The pond is actually someone else's property. From what I can tell from NG map (if that's reliable at all) is that the "scene" was just slightly down from the pond. I dunno if my earlier maps were deleted for TMI (so sorry), but if you can find the addy's and look very closely, there's a "trail running from the road, back to the pond... good for moving quickly.

And when LE refers to "deep woods" they mean lots of trees and thick undergrowth.

 

[crimecurious]

Is this a "recreate" of NG map?

It's my own theory going from NG map. The part circled, is the best I could see from NG map. The "trail" is something I discovered awhile back. Pure speculation on my part.

 

[danni]

It's my own theory going from NG map. The part circled, is the best I could see from NG map. The "trail" is something I discovered awhile back. Pure speculation on my part.

Gotcha

 

[ynotdivein]

Morning folks--many thanks for the helpful maps and theorizing. Do I understand correctly that AB's house (1) was not yet built/does not appear on the Google map that we are looking at; and (2) that it sits behind the pond that is cut off at the bottom of that screen shot that Crimecurious is sharing? TIA

To know that Elizabeth was afraid of the woods and then to see the area she was found in... well, it just makes me sick. Poor poor baby girl...

 

[Csquare]

Let me ask a quick question. What is a grave? Could there have already been a hole due to rain washout or just a deep rut and then place limbs leaves or any other brush that was readily available?

 

[Prof]

A poster here was asking about the changing of reports as to Elizabeth calling home before leaving. I found an original copy of the report. If this has already been posted, my apologies.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/st-martins-mo/TK880SFSBSKETJK2F
Body of Missing Missouri Girl, 9, Found in Woods

The body of a 9-year-old Missouri girl who vanished walking home from a friend's house was found in a heavily wooded area Friday.


White said Elizabeth spoke with her parents on the phone before she left her friend's house.

"Her parents said she should leave and get home," he told Fox.

About 70 investigators worked on leads Friday and another 70 people spent the day scouring woody, uneven terrain west of Jefferson City, Mo.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569338,00...

However if you click on the foxnews link, the story has been changed. I guess we will get the answers when the phone records come out at the trial.

"Get home" seems strong language to me. And fox news quotes this as a direct statement from the Sheriff.

Yes, I just posted this a couple of days ago in a discussion of how the online articles are changing original stories--- I found the original article had been copied to many forums on October 22nd, (the day before E was found) but some time since then, the online article at the original source had changed drastically, and obviously last updated Friday morning --- I did not post the whole article in respect of copyright laws, just the quotation from the Sheriff

 

[lajr56]

A thought about Elizabeth being afraid of the woods. My son used to be afraid of the dark. But really, he was afraid of being ALONE in the dark. If someone was with him, he was fine.

Perhaps Elizabeth was afraid of being ALONE in the woods, but felt much more comfortable being there with someone else, who she trusted.

 

[gliving]

Prof, I should probably go back and edit my post but since it's now been deleted by fox news, maybe it's not a copyright violation. If I get a notice, I'll let you know so you can edit your post also.

Now, why would news source go back and edit stories with direct quotes from the Sheriff? I don't know unless it deters the prosecution or the defense. It does note that Elizabeth had contact with her mother before leaving. What was that conversation and why was she told to 'get home'?

 

[Prof]

Prof, I should probably go back and edit my post but since it's now been deleted by fox news, maybe it's not a copyright violation. If I get a notice, I'll let you know so you can edit your post also.

Now, why would news source go back and edit stories with direct quotes from the Sheriff? I don't know unless it deters the prosecution or the defense. It does note that Elizabeth had contact with her mother before leaving. What was that conversation and why was she told to 'get home'?

I wondered if I should post the whole thing when I originally posted my snip of it, because as you said it's "deleted," but is it still in print version? (I also thought we are asked not to post whole articles here)

I think news sources should be held accountable for changes to stories--and should not be able to completely change an original posting without tracking the changes! Since I read local sites for news the days E was missing, it really was confusing when I could not trace back what I thought I knew from a news source -- I guess sleuthers should archive important news articles just like some do with any other types of websites related to a suspect

As far as the why the news source would change the story? Perhaps the news source got it wrong (maybe they quoted someone else quoting the Sheriff) or perhaps the Sheriff himself misquoted E's family (got his stories mixed up, both families involved having different accounts), or perhaps the quote is correct, but as you suggested LE or prosecution decided for some reason (I can't figure out) that it is too much information --

I am leaning toward it being an error on the part of news or Sheriff --
Gliving, Do you think the "Get home" suggests that the mother knew E was in danger?

 

[mia g]

I wondered if I should post the whole thing when I originally posted my snip of it, because as you said it's "deleted," but is it still in print version? (I also thought we are asked not to post whole articles here)

I think news sources should be held accountable for changes to stories--and should not be able to completely change an original posting without tracking the changes! Since I read local sites for news the days E was missing, it really was confusing when I could not trace back what I thought I knew from a news source -- I guess sleuthers should archive important news articles just like some do with any other types of websites related to a suspect

As far as the why the news source would change the story? Perhaps the news source got it wrong (maybe they quoted someone else quoting the Sheriff) or perhaps the Sheriff himself misquoted E's family (got his stories mixed up, both families involved having different accounts), or perhaps the quote is correct, but as you suggested LE or prosecution decided for some reason (I can't figure out) that it is too much information --

I am leaning toward it being an error on the part of news or Sheriff --
Gliving, Do you think the "Get home" suggests that the mother knew E was in danger?

I could go either way.. I often tell my kids "Its time to "get home" (I am southern ) I have also said " HEY !!!! GET!!!! HOME!!!!". Usually when they were late or had not done a certain chore etc before they left..

If I thought my child was in danger I would GO TO THAT child. I also believe Eo's mom would have done this, she called police w/i 45 minutes of her child missing(many would "try not to panic" and search on their own or with neighbors. She was proactive) SO I totally believe IF she thought EO was in danger she would have gone to find her, not called and said "get home" JMHO

 

[gliving]

Gliving, Do you think the "Get home" suggests that the mother knew E was in danger?

Who knows? It could be anything from Elizabeth saying someone was mean to her and mom tells her to 'get home' or an innocent comment of supper is on the table and 'get home'.

Either way, mom was concerned when she didn't return and alerted the authorities.

Interesting that E went to play with the six year old and AB inserts herself into their play. E seemed like a sweet little girl, still dressing in a pink and blue outfit complete with a pretty pink scarf and AB dressing in her 'scene' attire. I don't see them as having much in common. Why would AB even be interested in their activities? I picture her more likely to be surfing the web or listening to music and wishing she had her phone back.

moo

 

[Gray]

I agree. Living in Missouri, saying "get home" is not nearly as scary as it sounds.... I grew up in Ohio and that wouldn't be too nice to hear, but in Missouri it seems a little more commonplace, IMO.

I really think that she was covered up with brush or thrown in a pit or something as opposed to actual digging of graves. The terrain is so rough and rocky here in SW MO, that I couldn't imagine a 15 year old girl digging a grave easily without blisters on her hands or being incredibly muddy. I would imagine someone would have noticed even a shovel being missing. Or maybe not. Maybe AB's grandparents didn't pay any attention to her and didn't care about her comings and goings.

 

[everyoneneedsavoice]

FINALLY...I FOUND IT IN MY CACHE!

http://foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=17316&external=99371.proteus.fma

The article we've been relentlessly searching for...found the "mobile" edition stored in my cache...I was hoping I had backed my phone up on my laptop that night and hadn't had time to go through everything and look.

I hope this link works for everyone...fyi...it was a fox article and posted by them (Fox) on Oct 23, 2009 5:20 PM EDT. And there it is...

"White said Elizabeth spoke with her parents on the phone before she left her friend's house.

"Her parents said she should leave and get home," he told Fox." from article linked above.

 

[lawlady84]

So you have that much to hide, eh?

Hoppy

ROFL. Fair enough, I'm borderline obsessive & extremely Type-A (couldn't y'all tell?). But I have had nightmares of walking into a job interview and on the table there are computer printouts:

JanNnz 1998-
DeaR AOL DiARyYy,
ScHOoL SuXzZ! JayKaY I LoVeE iTTT. At LuNCH I TaLkKeD To MiKeEeEY<3<3 He iZ sO HoT! I WaNNa MaKE BaBBbBiEZ wiT hIM. AsHLeY WUZ a Bi0TcH ToDaY!
ThAz ALL,
PeEaCE OuTT- LL


... "I'm sorry Sir, I used to be an idiot." :woohoo: [I took way too much time making that rainbow haha]