MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #8

[Dal Gal]

Thank you gliving for bumping this post up for us!

It seems evident that this poster has inside information, and as I remember it there was not much discussion about any other adults living or connected to the house (aside from the gps) the aunt before ILC showed up -- I could be wrong
However, IMO this writing is not that close to the writing I have seen on various RP sites, but I am going from memory -- I did not save any, so I cannot really compare the writing fingerprints -- but if it is him, he seems to have matured somewhat

Could it be another person closely connected, even living in the same house?
Seems this poster is fairly touchy about certain records

Bolded by moi.

You are correct. ILC's claim that he was a friend of an adult male living in the house is the first we had heard about additional people living there. He later confirmed that those people were RP and and KNP. Outside of that, I don't believe we've had that information corroborated.

 

[Capri]

In searching for info on the Prenger Center, found info about their detention center, rules, visitation, etc. Passing along for anyone interested:

http://www.colecounty.org/prenger/dent.html

 

[SereneOne]

In searching for info on the Prenger Center, found info about their detention center, rules, visitation, etc. Passing along for anyone interested:

http://www.colecounty.org/prenger/dent.html

Wondering whether any locals know if the suspect has had visitors? Any locals out there with any information on how this person spends her time, what is her demeanor, etc? Someone must know.

 

[crimecurious]

I don't think there's anyway we'd know. The place is very secure and you don't get past the front door if you don't have business there. There's not a lot of people who work there and I don't think they'd be talkin'

 

[SereneOne]

I don't think there's anyway we'd know. The place is very secure and you don't get past the front door if you don't have business there. There's not a lot of people who work there and I don't think they'd be talkin'

I agree we would not expect employees to talk; however, the suspect's visitors would be seen coming and going, people would be visiting other residents, and there would be other juveniles released from time to time.

 

[W8nC]

Has anyone actually seen AB express a personal interest in Twilight? The only relation that I can recall has been FRIENDS of hers who use Forks, WA as their location.

If she was indeed a fan, wow, those Twifans can be rabid with their interest in the stories! I have an adult female friend (43 years old) who is a Twifan and she attends TwiTours and half of her facebook posts involve Twilight.

AB did read the books. I know someone who borrowed one of them from her, but had to wait till she was finished with it.

 

[danni]

I don't think there's anyway we'd know. The place is very secure and you don't get past the front door if you don't have business there. There's not a lot of people who work there and I don't think they'd be talkin'

This if very true, my husband went to put in his "application" for an internship(for a college course he is taking) at the local juvenile detention center. They gave him a "tour" of the place but he was not allowed in where any juveniles would be housed. He ended up accepting an internship with another facility but they are VERY protective of these kids.

As far as people would be coming and going, I don't know many people that hang out in front of the local JDC to see who comes and goes. If there is any locals here that are doing this let me be the first to say, YOU ARE DEDICATED!

 

[W8nC]

As far as people would be coming and going, I don't know many people that hang out in front of the local JDC to see who comes and goes. If there is any locals here that are doing this let me be the first to say, YOU ARE DEDICATED!

I have no plans to hang out at the JDC, but I would like to attend the hearing on the 18th. Does anyone know where it is being held?

 

[Jodibug]

Prenger is next to the YMCA entrance. I am there nearly every day, but I never see anyone coming or going. I don't think anyone has the time to just sit there and watch though.

I don't know what the grandparents look like anyway, so even if I saw someone in the parking lot I wouldn't know if they were there for AB or another juvenille.

 

[MoEquineFan]

Bolded by moi.

You are correct. ILC's claim that he was a friend of an adult male living in the house is the first we had heard about additional people living there. He later confirmed that those people were RP and and KNP. Outside of that, I don't believe we've had that information corroborated.

He did go on to say in a later post that KNP did not live there but visited very frequently (he may have even said daily IIRC). He also said his "friend" was at the house the day this all went down and KNP arrived later after she was off work.

 

[MoEquineFan]

MoEF
Okay you have convinced me! As I said, I had nothing to compare the writing to, and I forgot about the UD site, which has a nice chunk of text; I think the punctuation outside of the quotation marks, and the lc first names are fairly telling combined!

I am not sure what "comma thing" you are referencing, unless you mean after the quotation marks

I notice the similarity of the parentheticals, and I notice in some posts the omission of small words: On his original post here, he states: "2nd she said the POI picked her to go play." (missing "up") On the other site's post: "and being the home Jays." (missing "of the")


(I hope this discussion is allowed; I am confused considering all of the circumstances!)

FYI I have had no period key last few days, sorry!

oooh, nice catch. I did notice the missing word before Jays but I didn't connect it with the missing "up" - I'm obviously not a pro.

(I think we are allowed to discuss ILC but no bashing, that was reserved for one day only!)

 

[Dal Gal]

He did go on to say in a later post that KNP did not live there but visited very frequently (he may have even said daily IIRC). He also said his "friend" was at the house the day this all went down and KNP arrived later after she was off work.

Yes. This was when we were trying to clarify who all from the AB house went over to EO's that night after the police had been there. He said that AB stayed home "to take a shower" and KNP was working, but that the "friend" (RP) went with the GPs, twins, and 6yo to EO's. IIRC.

I did get (and still am) confused on the actual residence status of the aunt and her husband. Not that it ultimately matters now, but it does establish some credibility for the accounts of AB's behavior.

 

[Capri]

I agree we would not expect employees to talk; however, the suspect's visitors would be seen coming and going, people would be visiting other residents, and there would be other juveniles released from time to time.

From looking at the photo on the Prenger Center's website, I originally assumed it housed many kids in the juv det. Ctr. I was wrong. The average daily juveniles housed in the detention center is only four.

 

[vjlaw]

Yes. This was when we were trying to clarify who all from the AB house went over to EO's that night after the police had been there. He said that AB stayed home "to take a shower" and KNP was working, but that the "friend" (RP) went with the GPs, twins, and 6yo to EO's. IIRC.

I did get (and still am) confused on the actual residence status of the aunt and her husband. Not that it ultimately matters now, but it does establish some credibility for the accounts of AB's behavior.

I was wondering, since the daycare was no longer in operation, if the young married couple could have been staying in the daycare house.

 

[desquire]

I have no plans to hang out at the JDC, but I would like to attend the hearing on the 18th. Does anyone know where it is being held?

It will be in Judge Beetem's courtroom in the Cole County Circuit Court, 301 East High Street, on the corner of High and Monroe in downtown Jefferson City. Juvenile Division hearings usually start at 1 and are done by 4:30, you might be able to find out when AB's certification hearing is scheduled by calling (573)-761-3641 on Wednesday.

Although there won't be much detailed evidience about AB's alleged acts in relation to the crime, the prosecutor will likely introduce testimony and evidence regarding the violent nature of the crime, any use of weapons, and any evidence of premeditation in an attempt to convince the judge that the juvenile system is inadequate to address the seriousness of the crime or to safely rehabilitate AB. The defense will try to show that AB is not competent to be tried in adult court and has mental issues that cannot be properly treated in the adult corrections system. If there is any truth to the rumors about accomplices or drug use, the defense will likely raise them. The Juvenile Office will report on its evaluation of AB and her background and mental state, which ought to provide details about her upbringing, any previous behavioral or psychological problems/treatments, any drug use, etc. So while Wednesday's hearing will not yield many answers about what happened on Oct. 21, it should provide a better picture of what happened to Eilzabeth and what type of person AB is.

I don't think the outcome of Wednesday's hearing is much in doubt. With Missouri's dual jurisdiction system there is not much incentive for any judge to keep a first degree murder case in juvenile court. The most the defense can hope for is to keep the defendent in juvenile detention until trial. If the rumors about premeditation and the post mortem mutilation have any substance, I think it's a very safe bet that AB wakes up on Thursday in an adult prison (or, at best, a Fulton State Hospital criminal ward) where she will stay until trial in an adult Criminal Division court.

 

[Prof]

Hi, I've been lurking since this case started. I hadn't seen this post before it was deleted. Just a few comments on it: "First" is obviously true since the half sister EPA is only 6 but I thought the speculation was that AuntK worked at MODOT since there is someone by the name of KP working as a secretary there. If ILC is RP then this "First" statement could have been an attempt to protect his wife. I don't think that the "second" statement is true, to the extent it imples that the kids were in MO and the grandparents moved to MO to take care of them. I know that AB and AuntK lived together with GM in Hollister, CA in 2003 at least - where Aunt K played on the San Benito HS tennis team and both Aunt K and AB were involved in equestrian activities. This was before GM obtained guardianship of AB in MO in 2005. Does anyone know when/where GM and GP got married or when they moved to MO? Does anyone know if the "Third" statement is true?

I appreciate your other post today Desquire; I know that the poster ElizaAvalon stated early on that she (or he) found the gps marriage record in CA,in case you have not found the answer I would like to know how long AB has been with gps because I am sure that will be a factor for the prosecution? If it is true that she has been living with them as far back as 2003, then she would have been 8 or 9? If they have had that much influence in her life, I dont' see how the parents records could have that much weight? I know nothing about these laws, but maybe the gps had to move to MO because that is where the parents were residents, and had to establish residency to get custody, even though unofficially they had been raising the grandkids in CA? IDK Anyone?

 

[vjlaw]

I appreciate your other post today Desquire; I know that the poster ElizaAvalon stated early on that she (or he) found the gps marriage record in CA,in case you have not found the answer I would like to know how long AB has been with gps because I am sure that will be a factor for the prosecution? If it is true that she has been living with them as far back as 2003, then she would have been 8 or 9? If they have had that much influence in her life, I dont' see how the parents records could have that much weight? I know nothing about these laws, but maybe the gps had to move to MO because that is where the parents were residents, and had to establish residency to get custody, even though unofficially they had been raising the grandkids in CA? IDK Anyone?

The date of the bio-dad's charge in camden co. MO is dec. 2002. At least the bio-dad was in MO when AB was still in CA. Curious as to what the bio-parents to MO. There is an army base in the area where he was arrested. So maybe military is what brought the parents to MO. Maybe the kids came a little later and then the gp's came when both bio's became unfit. I don't know who found the marriage records of gp's but I would think there would have been a record of bio-parents. I thought I read somewhere the AB's dad was from CA also. I don't know about the custody laws either, but that can be the only thing I can think of as to why they moved here instead of taking the kids back to CA. That really meant a big sacrifice and adjustment for KP. I think the KP who works at MODOT is a different KP. This of course just my opinion.

 

[lbminnesota]

The date of the bio-dad's charge in camden co. MO is dec. 2002. At least the bio-dad was in MO when AB was still in CA. Curious as to what the bio-parents to MO. There is an army base in the area where he was arrested. So maybe military is what brought the parents to MO. Maybe the kids came a little later and then the gp's came when both bio's became unfit. I don't know who found the marriage records of gp's but I would think there would have been a record of bio-parents. I thought I read somewhere the AB's dad was from CA also. I don't know about the custody laws either, but that can be the only thing I can think of as to why they moved here instead of taking the kids back to CA. That really meant a big sacrifice and adjustment for KP. I think the KP who works at MODOT is a different KP. This of course just my opinion.

The KP who works for MODOT is connected to KNP's husband.

 

[lbminnesota]

I appreciate your other post today Desquire; I know that the poster ElizaAvalon stated early on that she (or he) found the gps marriage record in CA,in case you have not found the answer I would like to know how long AB has been with gps because I am sure that will be a factor for the prosecution? If it is true that she has been living with them as far back as 2003, then she would have been 8 or 9? If they have had that much influence in her life, I dont' see how the parents records could have that much weight? I know nothing about these laws, but maybe the gps had to move to MO because that is where the parents were residents, and had to establish residency to get custody, even though unofficially they had been raising the grandkids in CA? IDK Anyone?

Good questions which I've been trying to figure out. If only we knew the grandmother's last name when she had MLB. That's a mystery.

This is the Alameda County property records search for Pleasanton, CA (where KNP was born): http://www.acgov.org/auditor/clerk/propertysearch.htm

It looks like grandmother married current husband in 1996 based on mortgage filings. She uses the middle initial W with 2nd husband and S with current husband. KNP's father took out a mortgage with his girlfriend/now wife in 1999.

 

[Capri]

The KP who works for MODOT is connected to KNP's husband.

You may be right, but I know for at least a time she was recently going full-time to a haidressing school- Merill, or similar.