MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #8

[ynotdivein]

Wow, I was out of town for 36 hours and can't believe all that I missed! Kudos to all on the handling of the IncidentLotsaChaos... Tricia, much respect for everything you do here.

Oh, side note from ex-journalism teacher: not sure how JCHS does it, but we always had a core staff actually taking the class and then would accept non-j-class students' writings for review and possible publication. This included both news/feature-type stories and items for the fiction page.

 

[vjlaw]

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/27/news_local/065local15currieremembered09.txt

The first comment shows we aren't the only ones wondering why.

If your reference is to the investigation, that is standard comment when someone does not die of natural causes.

 

[vjlaw]

I saw the rule about not posting to web pages authored by minors. I wanted to add some info for future reference as this case unfolds.

Missouri's law regarding juveniles and the concept of "minors" is a convoluted mess. Here's the condensed version -

• Anyone under the age of 21 is considered a minor under Missouri law as it relates to alcoholic beverages.

• Otherwise, anyone 18 years old and over is an adult and anyone under 18 is a minor.

• EXCEPT in juvenile court statutes (Chap 211) where "Adult" means a person seventeen years of age or older except "for seventeen-year-old children as otherwise defined. "

• In the juvenile court statutes, "child" means any person under seventeen and "in addition, any person over seventeen but not yet eighteen years of age alleged to have committed a status offense ..."

• No person under the age of seventeen years can be held in an adult jail.

• Juvenile authorities can retain jurisdiction over a child/adult until 21 years of age.

• Anyone seventeen years and over who is suspected of crime is treated as an adult. Name/proceedings/record is public.

• Parents/Guardians are required to provide food/clothing/shelter etc. until 18 years of age but have no real authority over the child after they turn 17.

• Because of the lack of authority once they reached 17, Missouri law has some liability protections for parents with regard to the acts of their children.

• "Upon apprehension and arrest, jurisdiction over the criminal offense allegedly committed by any person between seventeen and twenty-one years of age over whom the juvenile court has retained continuing jurisdiction shall automatically terminate and that offense shall be dealt with in the court of general jurisdiction as provided in section 211.041."

• Any child between the ages of twelve and seventeen that commits a felony the court,the juvenile officer, the child or the child's custodian may petition for the child may be transferred to the court of general jurisdiction and prosecuted under the general law - "except that if a petition alleges that any child has committed an offense which would be considered first degree murder under section 565.020 ... the court shall order a hearing, and may in its discretion, dismiss the petition and transfer the child to a court of general jurisdiction for prosecution under the general law."

And then of course, there are all the laws dealing with general and dual jurisdiction, most of which have been previously discussed here.

People should no longer what is take so long to have a hearing. Thanks for the post. It was a fun read.

 

[Jules71]

If your reference is to the investigation, that is standard comment when someone does not die of natural causes.

Pretty sure they were referring to the first comment left on that article:

" I pray for this man. Never knew him a day in my life. I was told why and my God what he must have felt. No, he was not to blame. "

 

[MoEquineFan]

I found the following in an article on the Mormon Times website titled, "How to keep the faith when children fall" (fitting?)

(Snipped)
To illustrate this point, Taylor shared a story about by an old Cherokee man who tells his grandson about the inner battle each person fights.

In the story, the man says the battle is between two inner wolves. One wolf, akin to the natural man, is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow and so forth. The other wolf is every good sentiment.

The grandson then queries, "which wolf win?" and the old man replies, "the one you feed."

Full article here: http://www.mormontimes.com/mormon_voices/mormon_experience/?id=10094

Now... the interesting part... I realized I had read this before...this SAME story was in one of the Twilight books that have been discussed here several times... the author, Stephenie Meyer, is also Mormon.

This, along with several scriptures I have read during my search, makes me firmly believe the wolf references come from their religion.

 

[vjlaw]

Pretty sure they were referring to the first comment left on that article:

Oh, I will go back and read that to see who may have left it, student, fellow teacher or someone else. Mr Currie was in the 65yrs old, give or take. I just think even if he had received a writing from her, he has seen alot in those years, he would not have killed himself over it. I think there are other people who were specialist in the field who would have had feelings of guilt over what happened before this man. We will probably never know if she was under the care of a mental health specialist. I would assume she was seeing an at-risk counselor at the high school. But this was the first year for her in the high-school building, the counselors there may still have been trying to get to know her. But, that is all just my opinion.

 

[Bibliophile]

All this wolf talk has piqued my interest... I haven't yet found a DIRECT correlation or explanation but a quick search of "wolf" and AB's religion provides a TON of references.

My 13 yr old is very interested in wolves and believe me has educated me on the subject.

I think the "Julie and the Wolves" type popularity began to return with all the hullabaloo about the reintroduction of wolves into areas where they had previously been killed off. There have no doubt been hundreds of programs on Animal Planet, Discovery, Nova, etc. extolling their virtues. And they really are some of the coolest, most intelligent animals we have in North America (some humans included )

There are a few popular children/teen's book series which feature wolves as central theme. And let's not forget that it appears the grandmother's family comes from SoCal and the SW where Native American symbolism and tradition feature the wolf. Heck, we even have one here at Websleuth's ::wolf::

 

[PeriodicalCuriosity]

I've thought about the wolf name too. Interesting about the youtube name translation. The gator name is of another interest to me. Both predatory animals with sharp teeth. Anyways, I doubt it's anything, but it's been on my mind too.

 

[cdan]

I found the following in an article on the Mormon Times website titled, "How to keep the faith when children fall" (fitting?)

(Snipped)
To illustrate this point, Taylor shared a story about by an old Cherokee man who tells his grandson about the inner battle each person fights.

In the story, the man says the battle is between two inner wolves. One wolf, akin to the natural man, is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow and so forth. The other wolf is every good sentiment.

The grandson then queries, "which wolf win?" and the old man replies, "the one you feed."

Full article here: http://www.mormontimes.com/mormon_voices/mormon_experience/?id=10094

Now... the interesting part... I realized I had read this before...this SAME story was in one of the Twilight books that have been discussed here several times... the author, Stephenie Meyer, is also Mormon.

This, along with several scriptures I have read during my search, makes me firmly believe the wolf references come from their religion.

Lifelong Mormon here...just an FYI: I have NEVER heard one time a reference to wolves in regards to our religion/culture. However, I DO like this story very much, thanks!

 

[hoppyfrog]

Friends:

I do *not* want to turn this thread away from EO, but I just had to say thanks for your kind support a few days ago when my DD16's classmate passed away. He suddenly collapsed and despite immediate and excellent emergency care, he passed away. He had a previously undetected heart defect, it turns out. DD16's school is only 200 kids. They are a very tight-knit community, yet she is coping well and has a great support system.

So thanks, and back to EO, that precious one.

Hoppy

 

[MoEquineFan]

Hoppy, I am sorry to hear about your daughter's friend.

Do you know if there is a place where I can find all of the Websleuth acronyms?? As a newbie here and long time lurker, I can pick up on most of them based on the content of the post but there are a few that still throw me. (When I Google DD16 I get something on Heavy Duty Diesel Engines!)

 

[crimecurious]

Hoppy, I am sorry to hear about your daughter's friend.

Do you know if there is a place where I can find all of the Websleuth acronyms?? As a newbie here and long time lurker, I can pick up on most of them based on the content of the post but there are a few that still throw me. (When I Google DD16 I get something on Heavy Duty Diesel Engines!)

I think DD16 is Hoppy's daughter.

 

[paris_paris]

I've thought about the wolf name too. Interesting about the youtube name translation. The gator name is of another interest to me. Both predatory animals with sharp teeth. Anyways, I doubt it's anything, but it's been on my mind too.

I've been away, and didn't realize the wolf names were being queried. AB and her brothers have wolf nicknames. I thought they were related to World of Warcraft. I don't remember seeing "gator" referenced, but it could relate to WOW too.

edit: I may be thinking of a different game. Koichi Maru. I'm sure I saw that referenced on one of AB's websites.

 

[crimecurious]

I can't stop thinking about the 2 graves. I can't help but have the feeling the second was meant for her little sister... I dunno why...

 

[MoEquineFan]

Lifelong Mormon here...just an FYI: I have NEVER heard one time a reference to wolves in regards to our religion/culture. However, I DO like this story very much, thanks!

CDan - congrats on your first post!

I thought I was onto something with the wolf reference. Here's another article that mentions the Three Wolves of Marriage: http://institute.lds.org/manuals/Eternal-Marriage-Student-Manual/a-c-covenants-2.asp

 

[Mom2Yaya]

Hoppy, I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your dd's classmate. :*( My prayers are with your dd, her school and the family.

The two grave thing bugs the daylights out of me as well. I wonder if she had other people in mind and EO became a victim of circumstance.

 

[crimecurious]

Hoppy, I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your dd's classmate. :*( My prayers are with your dd, her school and the family.

The two grave thing bugs the daylights out of me as well. I wonder if she had other people in mind and EO became a victim of circumstance.

I dunno, but I've always thought EO was the intended victim...

 

[crimecurious]

2 things I've been trying to find out if anyone can help....

1) info on AB's bio Mom. I know her last known address... but the house is now for sale and appears empty. I guess the reason for curiosity is I've been wondering what AB's early years were like.

2) An exact location of where EO was found. I guess there was a map on a local news channel, but it's not on their website.

 

[bigflaw]

I can't stop thinking about the 2 graves. I can't help but have the feeling the second was meant for her little sister... I dunno why...

Food for thought: “He who seeks vengeance must dig two graves: one for his enemy and one for himself” - Chinese Proverb

Who knows if this is mentioned in religious or pop-culture literature.

 

[crimecurious]

Food for thought: “He who seeks vengeance must dig two graves: one for his enemy and one for himself” - Chinese Proverb

Who knows if this is mentioned in religious or pop-culture literature.

Sorry to say, that prob would have been for the best after the fact.