MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #2

[Sundog]

And that includes drugs unknowingly laced with fentanyl.

... and also synthetic marijuana. They may have gone out to the backyard to smoke some marijuana before leaving, not wanting to smoke in the house or in one of their cars. If one of the men left his coat in the house, then maybe he planned to go back to get it after they finished in the backyard, or else he was already inebriated from the alcohol consumption and just forgot to grab his coat when he left, not planning to be outside for very long.

 

[SMK777]

If there was illegal drug overdose to death, why wouldn't there be a homicide investigation into source?

There would, and may well be underway.

 

[SMK777]

... and also synthetic marijuana. They may have gone out to the backyard to smoke some marijuana before leaving, not wanting to smoke in the house or in one of their cars. If one of the men left his coat in the house, then maybe he planned to go back to get it after they finished in the backyard, or else he was already inebriated from the alcohol consumption and just forgot to grab his coat when he left, not planning to be outside for very long.

Agreed!

 

[al66pine]

LE Welfare Checks. Warrant?

And that has to be risk of imminent harm. That is when they can hear a fight or there is a fire, none of which were the case here. This is common sense. You cannot call the police and say go in that house because my boyfriend didn't come home. The police can knock and look around the outside, but police do not go entering people's houses. This is basic constitutional knowledge.

@darring21 Paraphrasing ^, a phone call for a welfare check does not necessarily allow LE to enter home without owner's permission or make forced entry. There must be more, like a fire or an audible/visible fight, something indicating exigent circumstances. Or????

IF LE arrived ~ ten min after friend stopped pounding on door (per FB posts by fiancee or friend, or am I misremembering?), could LE have secured a WARRANT to conduct a search at this house? DId they?

IF so, that's a snappy, speedy-fast, lightning-quick warrant.

IF so, did the fiancee call in info which provided probable cause for a warrant, allowing LE to force entry to house?
Or did Friend #5 phone LE w info leading to a warrant?
Or someone else?

What info would justify a warrant to force entry in this case?
(Not saying they did use force, as JW admitted LE into house.)

A call on Tues. 9 or 10-ish w caller saying something like - I heard that John Doe dropped off ___ (drugs?) at ___ address on Sun. evening, and people who were there have not been heard from since then, despite repeated calls, texts, messages from fam & friends. Maybe. Maybe not. IDK.

What other info could have triggered issuance of a warrant?

Not saying any drugs were CoD or a factor in this tragedy.

 

[10ofRods]

In my opinion, the fact that everyone - including the family members apparently - is waiting for the toxicology results indicates the deaths are related to some sort of poison or toxin, in which alcohol is included. Alcohol. Drugs. Poison. What else might be included in that?

Other drugs or medications with potential for overdose, is one group. That anesthetic that Michael Jackson OD'd on. Ketamine. If they find metabolites of opiates, they may have to do more lab work to try and figure out the actual drug (codeine vs oxycodone vs fentanyl, etc).

I imagine they already have the blood alcohol results, but the rest of this can take up to six weeks - or longer.

 

[NCWatcher]

BBM. Evidently the girlfriend didn't agree with your "most probable" scenario because she broke into the home.

In this case, the families say they DID try to reach the men and got no response. #5 had been at the house and JW wasn't responding to him. JW didn't answer knocks at the door and the men's vehicles were still at the house. If it happened to me, my biggest fear would be carbon monoxide poisoning and I would phone LE for a welfare check.

JMO

When I said in my post the most probable outcome for a missing boyfriend isn't death or imminent danger at a long-time friend's house after watching a game, I wasn't speaking from the girlfriend's perspective. And we really don't know *exactly* what she thought except that she obviously was willing to break into the friend's home when she couldn't find her boyfriend. However, I don't think LE would have done the same thing for a "welfare check" for a competent adult who didn't live at that house. I don't believe LE would have been justified in breaking down the door because it just wasn't very likely the boyfriend was in danger or that a crime was occurring in the house. Clearly unlikely things sometimes happen. But to have probable cause requires a reasonable belief something is likely.
MOO

 

[iamnotagolem]

When I said in my post the most probable outcome for a missing boyfriend isn't death or imminent danger at a long-time friend's house after watching a game, I wasn't speaking from the girlfriend's perspective. And we really don't know *exactly* what she thought except that she obviously was willing to break into the friend's home when she couldn't find her boyfriend. However, I don't think LE would have done the same thing for a "welfare check" for a competent adult who didn't live at that house. I don't believe LE would have been justified in breaking down the door because it just wasn't very likely the boyfriend was in danger or that a crime was occurring in the house. Clearly unlikely things sometimes happen. But to have probable cause requires a reasonable belief something is likely.
MOO

You don’t think 4 men who have not responded to calls, texts, and door knocks for 48 hours isn’t reason enough to force entry?

In reality, they wouldn’t have needed to force entry. JW answered the door, granted maybe it was the lights from police cars that alerted him to the fact that someone was at the door if he had earbuds in.

Edit: I may be the only one but if my husband was 2 days late returning home from anywhere, I’d 100% assume he was dead. I wouldn’t think of any other scenario that would prevent him from returning to me.

 

[monkey222]

There would, and may well be underway.

Yet the police publicly stated this was not a homicide investigation.

 

[NCWatcher]

You don’t think 4 men who have not responded to calls, texts, and door knocks for 48 hours isn’t reason enough to force entry?

In reality, they wouldn’t have needed to force entry. JW answered the door, granted maybe it was the lights from police cars that alerted him to the fact that someone was at the door if he had earbuds in.

No, I don't think the police would have broken down the door based only the report that adult men were not answering their phones and hadn't gone home after a sports-related gathering. In this case something had happened but I doubt before the fact many of us would have thought there were 3 dead bodies in the backyard. And what matters is what is reasonable to conclude before the fact. LE can't just batter down doors because something might have happened.
MOO

 

[MyBelle]

When I said in my post the most probable outcome for a missing boyfriend isn't death or imminent danger at a long-time friend's house after watching a game, I wasn't speaking from the girlfriend's perspective. And we really don't know *exactly* what she thought except that she obviously was willing to break into the friend's home when she couldn't find her boyfriend. However, I don't think LE would have done the same thing for a "welfare check" for a competent adult who didn't live at that house. I don't believe LE would have been justified in breaking down the door because it just wasn't very likely the boyfriend was in danger or that a crime was occurring in the house. Clearly unlikely things sometimes happen. But to have probable cause requires a reasonable belief something is likely.
MOO

We'll agree to disagree.

JMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

No, I don't think the police would have broken down the door based only the report that adult men were not answering their phones and hadn't gone home after a sports-related gathering. In this case something had happened but I doubt before the fact many of us would have thought there were 3 dead bodies in the backyard. And what matters is what is reasonable to conclude before the fact. LE can't just batter down doors because something might have happened.
MOO

We will have to agree to disagree. 4 men MIA for 48 hours with all vehicles and phones at their last known location would seem reasonable that something catastrophic happened.

But I’m sure I’m wrong since the wives, fiancés, parents, etc didn’t report them missing or ask for a welfare check so apparently I’m the only one that assumes horrible things when someone doesn’t show up.

Edit: except the fiancé clearly was concerned 2 days later when she broke into the house

 

[MyBelle]

You don’t think 4 men who have not responded to calls, texts, and door knocks for 48 hours isn’t reason enough to force entry?

In reality, they wouldn’t have needed to force entry. JW answered the door, granted maybe it was the lights from police cars that alerted him to the fact that someone was at the door if he had earbuds in.

Edit: I may be the only one but if my husband was 2 days late returning home from anywhere, I’d 100% assume he was dead. I wouldn’t think of any other scenario that would prevent him from returning to me.

BBM. I know for a fact LE will do it, especially when there are extreme weather conditions. Carbon Monoxide poisoning happens in frigid weather.

JMO

3 dead, 1 hospitalized from carbon monoxide poisoning in Kansas City, Missouri

KCFD crews responded to the home on Fuller Avenue just south of Independence Avenue early Saturday morning

www.kmbc.com

 

[NCWatcher]

We will have to agree to disagree. 4 men MIA for 48 hours with all vehicles and phones at their last known location would seem reasonable that something catastrophic happened.

But I’m sure I’m wrong since the wives, fiancés, parents, etc didn’t report them missing or ask for a welfare check so apparently I’m the only one that assumes horrible things when someone doesn’t show up.

Edit: except the fiancé clearly was concerned 2 days later when she broke into the house

I don't disagree that many spouses/partners fear a partner or spouse could be dead if they don't come home especially if it's never happened before. But 1) LE has to operate from a different perspective so far as breaking down doors or doing other things that could violate someone's rights. And 2) most 30-40 year old men who are reported missing by their wives or girlfriends aren't dead. But yeah, on the rest we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[LMDlong]

Yeah homemade or tainted alcohol is the only way I can see alcohol killing them all.

I think LE found something in the backyard, near or on one of the bodies to make them think the case is not a homicide. if so they won’t release that information until toxicology results come back.

 

[branmuffin]

Banfield

Ashleigh Banfield is the definitive authority on the nation’s biggest true crime stories. A veteran award-winning journalist, Ashleigh brings a sharp focus to the crime stories gripping America, distilling facts and analyzing context in a way which captures viewers’ interests and imaginations...

www.newsnationnow.com

Really, I find her a bit sensationalist to be honest.

"First and foremost, this case is 100% NOT being investigated as a homicide," Captain Jake Becchina of the Kansas City Police Department told Fox News Digital.

"There have not been any arrests [or] charges, and no one is in custody. There are no specific threats or concerns for the surrounding community at this time," Becchina said. "The resident at the house was cooperative with detectives the day the deceased were discovered."

3 Kansas City Chiefs fans found frozen outside home of friend who had 'no knowledge' of deaths: lawyer

Family and friends are clamoring for answers after Ricky Johnson, Clayton McGeeney, and David Harrington died in below-freezing temperatures after watching the game.

www.fox5atlanta.com

* why did the capt. tell us how this case is not being investigated instead of telling us how this case is being investigated? Did the capt. even tell us this case is being investigated at all?

Maybe one of them was found with a meth pipe. Or had drug paraphernalia on them. Maybe one of them had a needle in his arm. Maybe all of them were drunk, sweating, not wearing appropriate clothing. Maybe evidence they fell asleep with a lit cigarette and had burns on their clothes.

 

[SMK777]

Yet the police publicly stated this was not a homicide investigation.

As I said in my other post, they are allowed to make false statements and do so frequently.

 

[Curious Me]

There may have been signs that their deaths were accidental drug toxicity most commonly fentanyl related. Note please, we don't know if any drugs were actually involved, but it's not too wild to consider a fast acting toxic fentanyl-laced drug.

I have read about this foam around the mouth when it's fentanyl or opioids, and wondered if there was any signs of that on the found frozen bodies. There's so many indicators. That, I would think, would be considered not a sign of foul play, and make LE surmise possible drug-related. Just because they said initially that it isn't a Homicide Investigation then, IMO, that could change

All just my own thoughts & MOO.​

Opioid Toxicity

In recent years, there has been a substantial increase in opioid use and abuse, and in opioid-related fatal overdoses. The increase in opioid use has resulted at least in part from individuals transitioning from prescribed opioids to heroin and fentanyl, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"In opioid fatalities, there is often a variable amount of foamy fluid about the mouth and/or nose (“foam cone”), resulting from the marked pulmonary edema..."

 

[Curious Me]

...Carbon Monoxide poisoning happens in frigid weather.

Wait, those people in your article were inside a house. Right? Carbon Monoxide happens from a gas leak inside a room, house, or car, but since when can it happen outside? I'm seriously asking why people keep considering that. Is it because you think they were dragged outside? Why didn't the "dragger" die too? ​

 

[SMK777]

The fifth friend is reported to have drug charges, the picture is becoming clearer. Friend 5 also said JW had his dogs in the home. The fiancee went over, and banged on the door. It is stated she could not get into the fence. She would have heard the dogs, and may not have broke in. Yet she broke into the basement, and went out of the home to get into the fenced in area. So no dogs in the home.

Why did friend 5 say the dogs were there if they weren’t?

 

[SMK777]

Maybeeee, some kind of grain or moonshine?

But why, when liquor is so readily available?