MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #3

[imstilla.grandma]

Does the court of public opinion believe this ancient Roman phrase:
ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
the burden of proof is on the one who declares, not on one who denies

This presumption of innocence rule prevents the harassment, embarrassment, and punishment of the ‘innocent responsible people’ who might be wrongfully or maliciously framed. How can JW possibly live through this if the possible blown out of proportion claims on the world-wide-web are rumors at best? How can he ever begin to address the claims being made? He’s in rehab, a controlled environment, but they still have television in the common areas. How might msm coverage affect his recovery and interaction with other patients?
*grammar edited

 

[SMK777]

So it can be seen now that although police insisted it was NOT a homicide investigation, prosecutors told family that nothing was being discounted:

Police were quick to rule out anything suspicious and state firmly that the case was not being treated as a triple homicide, angering relatives of some of the men.

Linda said her family met with Platte County prosecutors, noting it “went well.”

“We got this reassurance that they are looking into this case fully,” she said.

Bodies of 3 Kansas City Chiefs fans could not be ID’d in person because they had to ‘thaw out’: stepmom

“We were not asked to go identify the body. They told us that the bodies had to thaw out,” Ricky Johnson Jr. ‘s stepmother told Ashleigh Banfield.

nypost.com

 

[Howl]

It's been reported an unnamed source close to his family said JW felt he needed to face his "addiction" in rehab. That statement--- assuming it's true-- could refer to an addiction to alcohol. While alcohol IS a drug, often people don't mean alcohol when using the term "drug addiction." We don't know if JW did other drugs that night or if he felt he had a "drug" problem. But it has been reported neighbors saw two of the men who later died arriving at JW's house after the game carrying 60 beers.

MOO: Let's consider alcohol blackouts as a possible missing piece.

During an alcohol blackout, it is possible for someone to witness/experience/do all sorts of things, but zero memories of those events are formed.

"During a blackout, the mind is not functioning properly because the brain is not functioning properly. The fundamental mental dysfunction is that short-term memory is no longer being uploaded into longer-term memory." (Psychology Today: Why Alcohol Blackouts are Nothing to Joke About They're evidence of a possible genetic vulnerability to alcohol.)

More from the linked article:

"People often confuse blacking out with passing out. The two are fundamentally different.

People pass out when they have had so much to drink that it is like going under anesthesia. Consciousness lapses and people become comatose, unable to be aroused...

...Alcohol-induced blackouts are defined as amnesia, or memory loss, for all or part of a drinking episode. This memory loss can be sputtering, called fragmentary, or continuous, called en bloc.

The experience can be compared to snapping photos only to discover later that there was no film in the camera. There is no way to recover the pictures you thought you were taking. The difference with a blackout is that, not only are there no pictures in the camera, but your mind has absolutely no memory of having taken the pictures."

I'm extrapolating from the info above and considering a hypothetical scenario where bad things are happening but the person witnessing or experiencing these events in the midst of an alcohol blackout isn't forming a memory of what's happening, and therefor doesn't take appropriate action (like calling for an ambulance, for example, or going back inside where it's warm?). In addition, judgement is impaired because drunk. Alcohol blackouts can go on for days. Add any type of additional drug into the mix...
<modsnip>

 

[SMK777]

MOO: Let's consider alcohol blackouts as a possible missing piece.

During an alcohol blackout, it is possible for someone to witness/experience/do all sorts of things, but zero memories of those events are formed.

"During a blackout, the mind is not functioning properly because the brain is not functioning properly. The fundamental mental dysfunction is that short-term memory is no longer being uploaded into longer-term memory." (Psychology Today: Why Alcohol Blackouts are Nothing to Joke About They're evidence of a possible genetic vulnerability to alcohol.)

More from the linked article:

"People often confuse blacking out with passing out. The two are fundamentally different.

People pass out when they have had so much to drink that it is like going under anesthesia. Consciousness lapses and people become comatose, unable to be aroused...

...Alcohol-induced blackouts are defined as amnesia, or memory loss, for all or part of a drinking episode. This memory loss can be sputtering, called fragmentary, or continuous, called en bloc.

The experience can be compared to snapping photos only to discover later that there was no film in the camera. There is no way to recover the pictures you thought you were taking. The difference with a blackout is that, not only are there no pictures in the camera, but your mind has absolutely no memory of having taken the pictures."

I'm extrapolating from the info above and considering a hypothetical scenario where bad things are happening but the person witnessing or experiencing these events in the midst of an alcohol blackout isn't forming a memory of what's happening, and therefor doesn't take appropriate action (like calling for an ambulance, for example, or going back inside where it's warm?). In addition, judgement is impaired because drunk. Alcohol blackouts can go on for days. Add any type of additional drug into the mix...

<modsnip>

It sounds like this could be a perfect explanation for what occurred with these men, IF they hadn’t found 3x the level of fentanyl in the toxicology reports. The fentanyl coma and death happens so rapidly and instantly that memory loss doesn’t even come into play.
ETA: For Willis’ lack of action, it could serve as an explanation, certainly.

 

[ExitMusic]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
I am a recovering alcoholic with almost 3 years sober. I have blacked out too many times to count. I have driven home with no memory, I have woken up in the hospital with no memory, I have been really cruel to my loved once with no memory. I have gotten plastered at family gatherings, sporting events, just on a Monday night home alone.

I can see if JW got drunk during his favorite team playing with buddies over. I can see him not contacting his friends for a few days because he’s embarrassed of what he said or did because he doesn’t remember. I can almost feel the absolute horror of finding out your friends died and you were too wasted to realize.

All my opinion but if JW did go to rehab for alcoholism, I could see this as being a possible scenario. Of course, all speculation.

ETA: Looking back, I think you may have been referring to the victims as blacking out. I don’t think all 3 of them blacked out together. JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I don’t open the door to strangers/saleman. But would answer the door to LE.

Same (and was thinking the same). JW doesn't know the people who came to his house (and may not have been connecting all the dots in his mind). But LE, with flashlights and banging and shouting, "Open up, Police here!" and fanning out to shine lights on other windows and preparing to enter the backyard (they had, after all, been called because a woman dialed 911 and said there was a dead man in the back yard)...much more likely to stir.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Same (and was thinking the same). JW doesn't know the people who came to his house (and may not have been connecting all the dots in his mind). But LE, with flashlights and banging and shouting, "Open up, Police here!" and fanning out to shine lights on other windows and preparing to enter the backyard (they had, after all, been called because a woman dialed 911 and said there was a dead man in the back yard)...much more likely to stir.

The woman who called the police - did she call from the house? Or did she leave and call from outside?

Really looking forward to reading this police report.

 

[housewife]

I guess I can kind of understand why family members are grasping at whatever straws they can find to blame JW, even though 100,000 families experience the same grief every year. What I don’t understand is why some of these news organizations feed into this kind of stuff.

They report on fentanyl overdoses every day. They know how common it is. Why run with crazy conspiracy theories?

Because it's how they make money.
More clicks=more $
Most "news" orgs purposely make headlines misleading and/or outrageous to entice people to click on them. They know it's not factually correct information, and they are not required to actually be truthful.

I stick to Reuters or BBC.

 

[Laughing]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
I am a recovering alcoholic with almost 3 years sober. I have blacked out too many times to count. I have driven home with no memory, I have woken up in the hospital with no memory, I have been really cruel to my loved once with no memory. I have gotten plastered at family gatherings, sporting events, just on a Monday night home alone.

I can see if JW got drunk during his favorite team playing with buddies over. I can see him not contacting his friends for a few days because he’s embarrassed of what he said or did because he doesn’t remember. I can almost feel the absolute horror of finding out your friends died and you were too wasted to realize.

All my opinion but if JW did go to rehab for alcoholism, I could see this as being a possible scenario. Of course, all speculation.

ETA: Looking back, I think you may have been referring to the victims as blacking out. I don’t think all 3 of them blacked out together. JMO.

CONGRATULATIONS on your recovery!!!

 

[10ofRods]

The woman who called the police - did she call from the house? Or did she leave and call from outside?

Really looking forward to reading this police report.

We don't know. What MSM is reported is that she enters through the basement, goes upstairs, goes to the back door, opens it and sees a body, whereupon she dials 911. I would expect her to be hysterical and dialing that phone ASAP - so my imagination says she dialed from just inside the kitchen or just outside it. 911 probably kept her on the phone for at least a couple of minutes and likely directed her to go back to the front yard to meet the incoming LE (for many reasons).

There were two other people with her - one was the man who "knocked for 20 minutes" (keep in mind that's from a very upset person - the same person who entered the house). The other was her best friend (the man's girlfriend).

 

[CrimeDawg123]

We don't know. What MSM is reported is that she enters through the basement, goes upstairs, goes to the back door, opens it and sees a body, whereupon she dials 911. I would expect her to be hysterical and dialing that phone ASAP - so my imagination says she dialed from just inside the kitchen or just outside it. 911 probably kept her on the phone for at least a couple of minutes and likely directed her to go back to the front yard to meet the incoming LE (for many reasons).

There were two other people with her - one was the man who "knocked for 20 minutes" (keep in mind that's from a very upset person - the same person who entered the house). The other was her best friend (the man's girlfriend).

Thanks. I'm trying to piece together the scene - him answering the door to the police in his knickers holding a glass of wine with the frantic 911 caller being in the house? outside the house? with her two friends somewhere. It's not making much sense.

 

[branmuffin]

So it can be seen now that although police insisted it was NOT a homicide investigation, prosecutors told family that nothing was being discounted:

Police were quick to rule out anything suspicious and state firmly that the case was not being treated as a triple homicide, angering relatives of some of the men.

Linda said her family met with Platte County prosecutors, noting it “went well.”

“We got this reassurance that they are looking into this case fully,” she said.

Bodies of 3 Kansas City Chiefs fans could not be ID’d in person because they had to ‘thaw out’: stepmom

“We were not asked to go identify the body. They told us that the bodies had to thaw out,” Ricky Johnson Jr. ‘s stepmother told Ashleigh Banfield.

nypost.com

That article is old news; it was printed before the tox screen came in so everything that family members say is discounted in my opinion. One thing I found curious though, is that RJ's stepmother said that his backpack was still in the house. Who told her that? LE? If it was LE there'd be no reason for it not to be in the house if those outside had not planned on leaving JW's home when they went outside. Of course everything would be there, his keys, his OTC drugs, etc. But it also brings into question, for me at least, as to when AWL actually left the premises.

 

[10ofRods]

Thanks. I'm trying to piece together the scene - him answering the door to the police in his knickers holding a glass of wine with the frantic 911 caller being in the house? outside the house? with her two friends somewhere. It's not making much sense.

I believe the woman who went into the house says that she observed JW "come down the stairs" to answer the front door (so that seems to mean she was still in the house or standing near the front door - which sounds like it was closed, as the police "knock on it." Therefore, I believe she was still inside the house (where her two companions were, I don't know - she could have opened the front door and let them in, then closed it again). It was cold at 9-10 pm that night.

I do remember reading in more than one article that she observed him "come downstairs with a wine glass, in his boxers." That's how we know that (the girlfriend's account).

Now I can't remember when she discovers the two other bodies. What's she's been through is just horrific. JW says it was water in the wine glass.

IIRC, IMO.

 

[Forest_Wood]

The woman who called the police - did she call from the house? Or did she leave and call from outside?

Really looking forward to reading this police report.

I'd love to read the police report as well. Will it be published in this case if no crime was committed?

I don't know about others, but if I had just broken into someone's home, and saw a dead body, I'd be high-tailing it out of there really fast since I'd be thinking I might be next. The mind wouldn't know how to process that information without initial terror of the same demise happening to yourself imo. I can't see her making the call right then and there while remaining inside the house. I would think if she stayed in the house, she wasn't very scared of just seeing a dead body imo.

MOO

 

[SMK777]

That article is old news; it was printed before the tox screen came in so everything that family members say is discounted in my opinion. One thing I found curious though, is that RJ's stepmother said that his backpack was still in the house. Who told her that? LE? If it was LE there'd be no reason for it not to be in the house if those outside had not planned on leaving JW's home when they went outside. Of course everything would be there, his keys, his OTC drugs, etc. But it also brings into question, for me at least, as to when AWL actually left the premises.

True, but that’s exactly what I was pointing out— that even before the toxicology reports there was an effort to view it from all angles on the part of the prosecution, despite law enforcement insisting that homicide was ruled out.

Yes, that raises a question, indeed. What else was left in the house? And what is the actual timeline?

 

[Coppertop15]

Some people have different reactions or sensitivities to drugs. The ER gave me Valium and morphine before giving me a chest tube for a lung collapse. It.didn’t.help. The ER doctor looked at the anesthesiologist because I was screaming in so much pain. He said he gave me the recommended dosage based on my height/weight and the doctor had to explain that not everyone reacts the same and not everything is cookie cutter. Regardless to say, worst experience of my life.

You wouldn't be red haired, would you?

 

[branmuffin]

MOO: Let's consider alcohol blackouts as a possible missing piece.

During an alcohol blackout, it is possible for someone to witness/experience/do all sorts of things, but zero memories of those events are formed.

"During a blackout, the mind is not functioning properly because the brain is not functioning properly. The fundamental mental dysfunction is that short-term memory is no longer being uploaded into longer-term memory." (Psychology Today: Why Alcohol Blackouts are Nothing to Joke About They're evidence of a possible genetic vulnerability to alcohol.)

More from the linked article:

"People often confuse blacking out with passing out. The two are fundamentally different.

People pass out when they have had so much to drink that it is like going under anesthesia. Consciousness lapses and people become comatose, unable to be aroused...

...Alcohol-induced blackouts are defined as amnesia, or memory loss, for all or part of a drinking episode. This memory loss can be sputtering, called fragmentary, or continuous, called en bloc.

The experience can be compared to snapping photos only to discover later that there was no film in the camera. There is no way to recover the pictures you thought you were taking. The difference with a blackout is that, not only are there no pictures in the camera, but your mind has absolutely no memory of having taken the pictures."

I'm extrapolating from the info above and considering a hypothetical scenario where bad things are happening but the person witnessing or experiencing these events in the midst of an alcohol blackout isn't forming a memory of what's happening, and therefor doesn't take appropriate action (like calling for an ambulance, for example, or going back inside where it's warm?). In addition, judgement is impaired because drunk. Alcohol blackouts can go on for days. Add any type of additional drug into the mix...
<modsnip>

I can relate to that. I think I've mentioned before that I suffered from debilitating anxiety attacks years ago. Until you have a full blown one, you can't really understand what is happening to someone who has them. My doctor prescribed me halcion. Even though it was a drug associated with sleep disorders it wasn't unusual for it to be prescribed for AA.

My family and I were in Europe traveling around. We'd been in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, etc. I remember a lot about that trip but what was unnerving was after we had all our photos processed. I kept saying to my husband, "Where was that?" or "I don't remember being there". Even though I'm in the pics smiling or standing in front of the Tower of Pisa doing that silly holding-it-up pic. So much I didn't remember and people were grilling me, "How can you not remember being in Pisa". "Well, you're smiling and posing." etc. etc.

I remember reading about President George W. H. Bush having been prescribed that drug and people were very concerned that he may have made decisions he was unaware of because of its association with amnesia, paranoia and hallucinations. He was taken off that medication, I was prescribed a different drug. England outright banned it in 1992.

Bush Is to Avoid Using Controversial Sleeping Pill (Published 1992)

www.nytimes.com

 

[Shamrock1]

I guess I can kind of understand why family members are grasping at whatever straws they can find to blame JW, even though 100,000 families experience the same grief every year. What I don’t understand is why some of these news organizations feed into this kind of stuff.

They report on fentanyl overdoses every day. They know how common it is. Why run with crazy conspiracy theories?

Because clicks mean money. It’s also why they put “HIV” (as in HIV researcher) in many headlines - it’s still a stigmatized medical condition, unfortunately, and these outlets know that stigmas and taboos drive clicks. JMO.

 

[NCWatcher]

I believe the woman who went into the house says that she observed JW "come down the stairs" to answer the front door (so that seems to mean she was still in the house or standing near the front door - which sounds like it was closed, as the police "knock on it." Therefore, I believe she was still inside the house (where her two companions were, I don't know - she could have opened the front door and let them in, then closed it again). It was cold at 9-10 pm that night.

I do remember reading in more than one article that she observed him "come downstairs with a wine glass, in his boxers." That's how we know that (the girlfriend's account).

Now I can't remember when she discovers the two other bodies. What's she's been through is just horrific. JW says it was water in the wine glass.

IIRC, IMO.

I don't doubt your account here or in your previous post. And I may not have read as much as you have. But 1) I can't find anything that says definitively the fiancee who broke in was accompanied to the home by the two friends you describe. I have read accounts supplied by two friends to reporters but it's not clear (to me) they were actually there when she broke in. 2) The person who banged on the door was there banging earlier in the day per most reports. Did he not see the men's vehicles? Supposedly the fiancee broke in after discovering the vehicles were there that night. If he was such a close friend (the boyfriend of the fiancee's best friend) why wouldn't he have told her the vehicles were there earlier in the day? 3) I've honestly never read the fiancee was standing inside the house to see JW come down the stairs when LE arrived. If I'd found an unexpected dead body, I'd have left I'm pretty sure. And I'd think LE would have told her to leave too. 4) Lots of accounts say she only found one body, not all three. MOO

The account below is typical of what I've read. Also it seems to say the homeowner is in his 40's & lives in Denver.

Search for fiancé turns into the discovery of 3 dead bodies at Northland home

The case remains a suspicious death investigation after KCPD found no obvious signs of foul play

www.kmbc.com

 

[10ofRods]

I'd love to read the police report as well. Will it be published in this case if no crime was committed?

I don't know about others, but if I had just broken into someone's home, and saw a dead body, I'd be high-tailing it out of there really fast since I'd be thinking I might be next. The mind wouldn't know how to process that information without initial terror of the same demise happening to yourself imo. I can't see her making the call right then and there while remaining inside the house. I would think if she stayed in the house, she wasn't very scared then imo.

MOO

And I would be the opposite. I would want to stay near my dead friend. I also think that the girlfriend had a pretty good idea that there was not a spree killer inside the house - after all, she went inside by herself. At any rate, perhaps she did bolt out the front door and then call police (apparently closing it behind her as the police are reported as knocking or pounding on the door and JW is reported as coming to the front door).

My own mind would be trying to take in every detail of what was happening. At any rate, she says she dialed 911 upon finding a body (the body on the porch - the one that we now know was in a "lawn chair" Harrington's body) .

I'm sure she was panicked. For me, getting that all into 911 would be absolutely the first thing I"d do. I'd want to dial 911 even if I thought there was a maniac in the house. That would be the only way to protect myself and the two other people with me.

The article below says that JW did make it to the front door when the police pounded, but doesn't say what perspective AM had on the events (it quotes one of her relatives, so it's a second hand account in that section). Daily Mail has this:

//April, who had been with McGeeney for 12 years, called police after finding Harrington. Officers then discovered the other victims in the backyard.//

Detectives hoping to access phones for answers in Chiefs fans deaths

Relatives told DailyMail.com detectives are trying to gain access to the cellphones of Chiefs fans David Harrington, 37, Clayton McGeeney, 36, and Ricky Johnson, 38.

www.dailymail.co.uk