MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

[Lovejac]

Has it occurred to anyone posting today to post a prayer for the deceased Michael Brown? Have some respect please. His family laid a 17 year old son to rest.
I ask for a moment of silence for the repose of his soul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC6RXAJpPjo

Respectfully
Starry

my humble opinion

I thought he was 18.

 

[branwynbreeze]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2014_Ferguson_unrest

The owners of the convenience store told FOX 2 St. Louis that no employee of the store reported a robbery; a customer inside the store made the call.[10]
Store owners speak out about surveillance video after release, KTVI, August 15, 2014

You know what else...I can't seem to find it anywhere, but I remember reading an article right after this first started that mentioned the store owners had basically refused to cooperate or make any statement or whatever, completely distancing themselves from the case altogether. Basically, it was a statement they supposedly made that said that THEY didn't call the police on MB and THEY didn't identify the suspect as MB and that THEY basically had nothing to do with anything. Makes me wonder if some after-the-fact additional intimidation didn't take place. And wasn't his store looted and pretty much destroyed after all of that as well? So sad.

 

[SStarr33]

I agree. :loveyou: But it makes that 'ignore' feature a little more troublesome :giggle:
ignore on........off..........on...........off :biggrin:

LOL, you took the words out of my mouth.

Ignore is very helpful to avoid TOs

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh, Linda, I would say, "shut up, you! Smooch!" but then I would get a time out. (PLEASE don't give me one, it wasn't Linda who I joked with like this before, and also I think she's cool with being teased, well ITO me if I'm wrong.) I don't know, I'm OK with praying for peace or whatever for everyone involved, and I'm not even particularly religious. I'm just---today, IMO wasn't really about the real MB, it was all about this Cause, the Narrative, and he was a very minor player. It makes me sad, but what can you do???

((((You ))))) and I are so cool...we could be ice cubes!


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[popsicle]

stevegiegerich ‏@stevegiegerich 5m
W Florissant, early Mon. evening: Lone protester, 2 t-shirt vendors, 3 TV crews. #Ferguson
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bv69hrUIUAEvkFW.jpg

 

[Frydaddy]

Do you think he was a driver? I looked at the distances on a map a while ago and it seemed like the market was pretty far away from the shooting.

1/2 mile

 

[magnolia]

It's something I find hard to come to terms with, that there is apparently SO much family involvement, especially with the church, and yet somehow MB did the actions that he did. Forgive me for not going into details, because this day is NOT about me, but I had an upbringing much more like DW's with all the chaos & hurting than MB's with all these family members in his court, preachers of the word, etc., and still he did things (stealing & threatening from that tiny store clerk) and scuffling with a LEO that I would have never have thought to do. I don't know, is it because my skin is a different color??? It's so freaking sad and confusing. But he had TWO apparently loving & involved parents AND a grandmother and a great uncle who is a pastor, so what happened? And this whole community who evidently knew and loved him and yet....he did what he did. Why??? I don't get it. How the hell do you have all that love and support and yet go on to menace this poor little shopkeeper and then have a 'serious altercation' with a cop in his own car? Those are questions I am asking today.

Look who he had for a friend.

 

[tlcya]

I avoided this thread today for three reasons

1) a very busy workday
2) I wanted to just lay off the case while the funeral was happening out of respect
3) I worried that if I watched or followed the details of the funeral and there was spin happening I would become angry and that did not feel right in light of the fact a young 18 year old man was being buried and no matter whether the shooting was justified or not I felt he deserved his funeral to be about him and not my disgust with that spin.

 

[Muffet]

We just don't have enough information to say either way. MB may have posed a threat at the time of the confrontation but did he pose a threat at the time he was shot dead? Maybe, maybe not. We just don't know. The only thing I think we can say for certain is that MB got to at least a point 35 feet away from the vehicle and that he was shot multiple times from the front.
We can surmise or speculate as to whether or not he continued to pose a threat once he was 35 feet away, but I don't think there is any way possible for us to say one way or the other definitively based on the information we know. Personally, I'll wait for more information to be released.

After assaulting officer Wilson (and I hope we've all caught up to speed enough to agree on that), if he wasn't in a submissive position for being cuffed, on the ground or at least with his back facing officer, hands behind his back or head, then only an incredibly foolish and poorly trained officer would not consider him a threat, eta - I mean even if he was 35' away. (on last thread, there's a lot of good info about distances related to threat speed)

He needed to demonstrate submissiveness in a huge way after what he did in the car.

At the moment, I can't think of any witness on either side say that he did so. Their descriptions of what he did were not nearly enough.

 

[cady]

LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Private Autopsy; Restoring The Peace In Ferguson, Missouri; Two Shot In Ferguson Chaos Overnight

Aired August 18, 2014 - 12:00 ET

Excerpt:

I now want to bring in Dr. Jen Garavaglia from Discovery Health Dr. G Medical Examiner program. She's live in Orlando. And also here with me live in New York, criminal defense attorney Midwin Charles and CNN legal analyst Mark O'Mara.

Dr. G, I'd like to beginning with you, if I can. We've just all been learning at the same time what this independent autopsy from Dr. Michael Baden shows us and perhaps doesn't show us. And from your trained eye, I'd like to get your perspective and your thoughts about what information we now know that we didn't know before from what they've given us.

DR. JAN GARAVAGLIA, MEDICAL EXAMINER IN ORANGE-OSCEOLA, FLORIDA: Ooh, from my trained eye, we don't have very -- still don't have very much information, and neither does Dr. Baden. We don't have the pictures. I can't analyze how he's interpreting this wound. He has not seen the x- rays. He's not seen the clothing. He has not seen - oh, the car. So you really can't even start to try to reconstruct this shooting.

You know, justice takes a long time. The medical examiner's independent and the original one that did the autopsy. And I would much rather wait for that independent autopsy with pictures that we can evaluate than I would go on a second autopsy, which is probably why they're doing a third autopsy.

BANFIELD: And I just want to be very clear on what Dr. Baden said if his live news conference because so much depends on what happened in that initial struggle. Dr. Baden said there's no forensic evidence to suggest a struggle occurred, but does that also mean there's no forensic evidence to suggest a struggle didn't occur?

GARAVAGLIA: Right. Most of the time with a struggle, you will see some evidence of close-range firing. But not all the time. And you certainly would need to look at the clothes. You want to make sure that those wounds didn't go through something first that would stop any evidence of close-range firing. And, keep in mind, the body's already been washed and manipulated by the time Dr. Baden has gotten it.

BANFIELD: Actually that was another question I had for you. We're talking about a second autopsy. And there is still to be a third for the federal authorities. How much does a body - and I hate to speak in these terms, but it is critical -- how much does a body get compromised each time an investigator like yourself finishes his or her work?

GARAVAGLIA: Right. The first autopsy is going to be the most critical one to look at, to look at their pictures and to look at the x-ray, because once that -- organs are taken out during the autopsy, it's very difficult to follow the path. The body is washed and then made ready for the funeral. And then Dr. Baden looks at it. So he's got to relook at what the wounds look like originally before he can really make a determination.

If you notice very closely when they stated that there was a federal autopsy would rely on some of the findings of the first autopsy, that's critical. That's what should be done. These take a long time to sort out.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/18/lvab.01.html

BBM

Dr. G made some excellent comments which explains some important points. I highlighted the once which I found the most interesting.

I'm also under the impression that whoever hires an expert like Dr. Baden, that Dr. Baden will then "interpret" his findings in favor of the party who hired him. IMO, certain findings can be interpreted in one way - or the other.

Thanks for this. As I recall, Dr.Baden addressed all the issues he had in performing a second autopsy. He deferred to the state autopsy which would clarify the questions that he could not answer due to lack of stipling, trajectory, etc. The family wanted an autopsy right away so that they could know what happened. I believe that Crump and Parks were the ones who hired the questionable analyst Purcells, or whatever his name is. He is not Baden's sidekick. Baden speaks for himself. IMO of course, the state autopsy is the important one. I have not heard that there are any major discrepancies between the two. JUST MY OPINION

 

[CHERIE.T]

Daryl Parks to NG who'd asked if MB had a juvie arrest record:

"I'll say this. He was a typical kid. Some situations [plural] may have occurred while (he was) a juvenile, but we need to not be at a point where we start to blame the victim."

on yeah? personally I hope his juvie record is released before the GJ meets.

 

[Minette]

((((You ))))) and I are so cool...we could be ice cubes!


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Y'all just don't know how much Linda & have I tangled on other threads! Nevertheless, I always respect the smart and especially someone who can keep me on my mental toes which Linda ALWAYS does, whether I'm agreeing with her or not!! I like smart people, I like witty people, and I like HONEST people, we don't have to be in mental lock step for any of that.<3



:loveyou:

 

[bettybaby00]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2014_Ferguson_unrest

The owners of the convenience store told FOX 2 St. Louis that no employee of the store reported a robbery; a customer inside the store made the call.[10]
Store owners speak out about surveillance video after release, KTVI, August 15, 2014

Says a lot IMO, he was likely used to...not saying from MB, just getting ripped off in general and being either too afraid to "snitch" or police never find the perps. :dunno:

 

[Lovejac]

In My opinion, the HUGE monolithic entertainment complex, which provides teens 24/7 images of violence and lust and greed, and low morals, and puts the -life up on a pedastal, is partly to blame. If you listen to the rap lyrics, play violent video games, watch some of the -life music videos, then you will see what inspired MB, imo.

And it's been further reinforced by this case.

It sends the message, if you rob a store, assault the owner, ignore a LE direct request, assault LE, and try to take his gun, you will be held in high regard and rap singers, movie producers and political figures will attend your service that is live streamed on several major networks.

Does anyone really wonder what is wrong with so many kids today?

Do enough people in Ferguson even care?

 

[branwynbreeze]

I don't really care about his juvie record since committing 2 felonies in 10 minutes is enough for me.

The real injustice might be when all these big names suck blood out of situation and leave Ferguson no better than they found it. To me that will be another tragedy.

Daryl Parks to NG who'd asked if MB had a juvie arrest record:

"I'll say this. He was a typical kid. Some situations [plural] may have occurred while (he was) a juvenile, but we need to not be at a point where we start to blame the victim."

 

[EvilSoup]

Huh, the linked article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution about today's funeral is MUCH more balanced than I thought it would be especially considering the cartoon they published the other day of a white cop shooting a MLK Jr. statue with the caption, "I have a dream..."

Anyway, here it is: http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/top-news/michael-browns-family-prepares-to-lay-him-to-rest/ng8Kh/

Respectfully, Luckovich is a Pulitzer Prize winning political cartoonist.

Many may not agree with the sentiments illustrated, but many do, and it is their right, and his to express that view.

IMO. MOO. (Except the info about Luckovich. That is fact.)

http://www.pulitzer.org/biography/2006-Editorial-Cartooning

 

[Linda7NJ]

Y'all just don't know how much Linda & have I tangled on other threads! Nevertheless, I always respect the smart and especially someone who can keep me on my mental toes which Linda ALWAYS does, whether I'm agreeing with her or not!! I like smart people, I like witty people, and I like HONEST people, we don't have to be in mental lock step for any of that.<3



:loveyou:

Love you too for ALL the same reasons!!!!


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[reedus23]

After assaulting officer Wilson (and I hope we've all caught up to speed enough to agree on that), if he wasn't in a submissive position for being cuffed, on the ground or at least with his back facing officer, hands behind his back or head, then only an incredibly foolish and poorly trained officer would not consider him a threat.

He needed to demonstrate submissiveness in a huge way after what he did in the car.

At the moment, I can't think of any witness on either side say that he did so. Their descriptions of what he did were not nearly enough.

I will agree that there seems to have been a confrontation at the vehicle. Exactly what that was or how severe it was I don't know yet. Obviously, there have been rumors, leaks, friends of friends on radio stations, talk of injuries, talk of no injuries. Unless I missed something that was formally released. As one example, actual medical records recording the exact nature and extent of injuries.

Beyond that, I would respectfully suggest the law is not that clear cut, and rarely is. The law does not require you to be submissive or you'll be shot. It requires that you endanger life or serious physical injury before deadly force can be used. I could be wrong on this point, but I imagine that is the exact decision that a jury would be called upon to determine. An officer simply saying he feared for his life or serious physical injury isn't sufficient all the time. A jury would then determine if that fear was reasonable or not. Again, I just don't know enough facts to determine one way or another if, at the time of the fatal shots, MB posed a danger to life or serious physical injury.

More thorough reports should be able to shed more light on that. For example was MB charging at the time? How far away he was at the time of the various shots? Had MB traveled 55 feet, to turn around and charge to within 35 feet of the car? Where the officer was at the time of the various shots? I'll simply wait and see what further information is released.

 

[Linda7NJ]

on yeah? personally I hope his juvie record is released before the GJ meets.

Honestly, I don't.
I'm curious as all get out....and have my suspicions.
But IMO it should have no baring on this case at all. His actions, that day are all that really matter. To me.




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[TheDuchess]

IMO, y'all are saying the same thing.

I agree that Mike probably thought he was home free until OW started backing up.........

Then MB wigged out and although we know the end result, the specifics are still foggy. (MOO)

I wish we had more than dodgy eyewitness accounts to go on. And as far as MSM; geez Louise, one day it's this, the next it's that. (MOO)

BTW, I read a post up thread that OW is in PRISON? How is that possible? He has not been charged with anything, has he? Why would he be in prison?

Sorry if I missed anything, I had a lot of catching up to do.

Well, luckily we do have one very highly solid and believable witness - a well trained police officer with a spotless police record.