MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[TheDuchess]

I'm not Hambirg, but I have some thoughts on this.

The potential for State prosecution and Federal prosecution are separate issues. This is one area where there is the possibility of being tried twice for the same "event"-- although the goals and charges that can be brought by the State and the Feds differ.

IMO, it's an interesting little suspension of "double jeopardy". It gives the Feds another "bite of the apple", as it were, to decide if they want to bring civil rights violation charges, or "hate crimes" charges. The Feds cannot bring murder/ manslaughter, etc criminal charges, as I understand it (IANAL)-- that is the responsibility of the state. Back during the Zimmerman trial, I researched the Federal Government bringing hate crimes charges, as the law is only a few years old. Back then, there had only been about 6-8 cases brought successfully by the Feds for hate crimes, and all of those were very gruesomely clear cut (things such as carving hate speech into the victim's bodies, etc).

This is a nice article about the serious difficulties faced by a potential federal prosecution of OW. IMO, there is not even close to enough evidence of the "intent to deprive MB of his civil rights," or the "intent to use more force than was reasonably necessary" to bring a case.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-government-faces-high-bar-charging-cop-ferguson-194253536.html



BBM. The fact that OW was at another police call only minutes before responding, and the extremely brief duration of the entire encounter with MB, the fact of the physical struggle while OW was still INSIDE his police vehicle, the injuries sustained by the officer in the struggle in the vehicle, all indicate strongly to me that there was never any intent to deprive MB of civil rights, nor was excessive force used. Of course, others will see it differently.

I don't think the decision whether or not to try OW by the Feds will be made until AFTER the GJ does their work and returns their opinion. And if there is an indictment, the feds will still hold off to see how a trial goes, before they decide whether or not to prosecute.

I strongly believe nothing will happen with a federal case, although it will be used as a political saber-rattling technique for months to come. There just isn't enough strong and clear evidence, IMO, to bother with a federal case. But then, Eric Holder is involved, so the politics of the situation may dictate what happens, not the evidence-- again, IMO.

Although I followed it quite closely, and remember them contemplating bringing federal charges in the Zimmerman case, I can't for the life of me remember the outcome. Did it just fizzle away? Or did they make a definitive clear cut decision about it? Or is it still "out there?"

 

[al66pine]

Yes, Apollo, I do, and the USAG Eric Holder, was infuriated that the video was released to the public...
Missouri cop was badly beaten before shooting Michael Brown, says source
By Hollie McKayPublished August 20, 2014FoxNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/
<sniped - read more>
The federal government is also investigating the death, and Attorney General Eric Holder has taken the lead – calling “the selective release of sensitive information” in the case “troubling.”

I understand the impression Holder is trying to give, but it's almost comical to me:
1. 'selective release' was made pursuant to multiple FOIA/sunshine law requests.
IDK much about FOIA, but IIUC, FPD's alternative was to wait for media to file in ct,
then City to pay to defend position that was legally pretty much untenable.
2. 'sensitive info' is vid of a person in a store, not formula for chemical weapons,
Although vid is not on public property on the street, is he saying MB or fam had some lawful expectation of rt/privacy?
IOW, not that vid info was actually sensitive wrt investigation, but that vid info did not support Holder's, fam's & others' agendas.

I agree FPD's timing of vid release is a bit curious.

My 2cts, JMO MOO IMO.

 

[Oceans]

Another interesting portion from last night's show:

CNN TONIGHT

An American Jihadist; FBI Analyzing Audio Recording of Brown Shooting

Aired August 26, 2014 - 22:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HOSTIN: But I think we need to address the conversation of whether or not the shooting, the use of deadly force, was appropriate. By most witnesses...

FERRER: It may have been completely inappropriate. It may be unjustified.

HOSTIN: The witnesses that I've heard from, and again, Don, maybe there are more, maybe there are others. But when you have someone that is fleeing, right, perhaps there was an assault. If you have this fleeing felon, you can't just shoot to kill, right? You have to either be -- this person has to be a threat to you or a threat to others in the community.

FERRER: That is -- that is -- OK, that is not true. That is not true.

HOSTIN: That is true.

FERRER: That is not true. No.

JOHNSON: Not if he's a felon. It just has to be...

HOSTIN: The Supreme Court has found that. That is absolutely true.

FERRER: I know -- I know the case you're referring to.

HOSTIN: We all do. Garner.

FERRER: And that is not true.

LEMON: OK.

FERRER: If it is a fleeing felon from a violent felony, if you believe the story, because we don't have the officer's story, and as I said, this may be a completely unjustified shooting.

LEMON: OK.

FERRER: But if the officer's story is he fractured the orbit of his eye, he could shoot him. HOSTIN: That is not true.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: It's in Garner.

LEMON: I let you guys because it's such an a intriguing conversation.

HOSTIN: And I don't want...

LEMON: But unfortunately -- conversation, but unfortunately, I have to end it here. Thank you, guys.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/26/cnnt.01.html

BBM: Regarding the witnesses: I thought I heard Judge Alex Ferrer reply to Sunny Hostin that there are a dozen witnesses who corroborate ODW's version. Did someone else heard this as well?

 

[K_Z]

Although I followed it quite closely, and remember them contemplating bringing federal charges in the Zimmerman case, I can't for the life of me remember the outcome. Did it just fizzle away? Or did they make a definitive clear cut decision about it? Or is it still "out there?"

IMO, it died a death of benign neglect. There was never, AFAIK, an "announcement" that they were not going to bring charges. Certainly if they WERE, we would hear about it by now. And IMO, Mark O'Mara would not be on camera as a commenter about THIS case if federal prosecution was looming ever closer over George Zimmerman.

There simply wasn't enough clear cut evidence for the Feds to charge GZ, IMO. And with an acquittal for murder, that is just not another multimillion dollar trial anyone is willing to push for. IMO.

 

[SStarr33]

Although I followed it quite closely, and remember them contemplating bringing federal charges in the Zimmerman case, I can't for the life of me remember the outcome. Did it just fizzle away? Or did they make a definitive clear cut decision about it? Or is it still "out there?"

they still have it hanging over GZ's head. Which is ridiculous.

 

[Suthrnqt]

FOIA for Caylee Anthony's case went that quickly and smoothly, too :happydance:

Yes it did. I remember how we all eagerly awaited the doc dumps. Then our own Muzikman would upload them for us.

 

[al66pine]

If trying to take an officer's loaded weapon isn't reasonable danger, then I don't know what is.

Au contraire, Lovejac, if I may parse your words.

LE officer would have a reasonable belief that a person trying to take his loaded weapon is a danger to LE & others.

MOO

 

[DebinGA]

One sure winner out of this is the Fraternal Order of Police, the national union representing Officer Wilson. The GA state constitution forbids public employees like teachers, LE, firefolk, from striking, which I like. But I can see the appeal of joining a union in a case like this with Crump, Inc. salivating in the wings with visions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ dancing in their venal heads.. imo. Every GA educator I know joins the NEA for $25 a yr. just in case a parent tries to sue them.

 

[tlcya]

This is a interview of Ms. Crenshaw, the day of the shooting, at the scene. I hadn't realize she had hung out with MB. There are several videos so scroll down a little,

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/crime/2014/08/09/police-shooting-ferguson/13832083/

thank you. At the 1:10 mark she begins describing things she heard from other witnesses. MOO much of what she heard from others colored her own perceptions of what she actually may have seen, if anything.

 

[SStarr33]

IMO, it died a death of benign neglect. There was never, AFAIK, an "announcement" that they were not going to bring charges. Certainly if they WERE, we would hear about it by now. And IMO, Mark O'Mara would not be on camera as a commenter about THIS case if federal prosecution was looming ever closer over George Zimmerman.

There simply wasn't enough clear cut evidence for the Feds to charge GZ, IMO. And with an acquittal for murder, that is just not another multimillion dollar trial anyone is willing to push for. IMO.

Nope. It is ongoing:

http://www.mynews13.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2014/3/19/george_zimmerman_dec.html

But Wednesday, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said Zimmerman could still face federal charges in the case, and hinted that decision could come soon.

"We are still in the process of doing the kinds of investigative things and analysis that are necessary before we can make the determination," Holder said. "So that matter's ongoing."

 

[LambChop]

I don't think the information about the injuries were due to a FOI request.

http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/darren-wilson-injuries-michael-brown-scuffle/2014/08/21/id/590101/

The robbery information was purportedly and that has been linked, though I will say I only wish all FOIA requests went that quickly and smoothly. There is a link upthread concerning a TV interview with some TV "expert" talking about that exact issue as well.

Josie's statements on the radio have been linked ad naseum and I can go find it yet again if I really need to.

So here is another question for you. Do you think the Chief released a statement that DW was injured because of all the misinformation that was being circulated as fact regarding the fracture? Whenever a news article says there information is from "inside sources" you have to wonder how accurate it is. Did anyone actually confirm Josie's story or was it just someone randomly calling with a story??? Not that we should sleuth her, just what kind of confirmation did MSM get.

You don't have to look for the information, just wondered if anyone has this information to consider for the media thread.

 

[lonetraveler]

You know that feeling you get when you type a well thought out post, hit send and then get the dreaded "THREAD CLOSED" message?

:tantrum: :gaah: :desert:

That just happened to me

Yep, I do personally know the feeling that the train left the station just before you boarded. Can be very traumatic! :gaah:

 

[SStarr33]

CNN Experts Think Audio of Brown Shooting Is a Hoax: &#8216;Someone&#8217;s Trying to Punk CNN&#8217;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLzAqCMnmnA

 

[TheDuchess]

CNN Experts Think Audio of Brown Shooting Is a Hoax: &#8216;Someone&#8217;s Trying to Punk CNN&#8217;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLzAqCMnmnA

:shame:

LOL - didn't I mention this earlier? Wouldn't it be interesting to find out that it's all a hoax? Giving the FBI a hoax tape would be a crime. But giving a hoax tape to CNN and saying you gave it to the FBI would not be, correct?

:rollercoaster:

ETA - I still think the tape is real, but who knows...

 

[jggordo]

Why isn't the media covering the killing of an unarmed white youth by a black police officer?

Meanwhile, the case of Dillon Taylor, a white 20-year-old shot and killed by a black policeman outside a 7-Eleven in Utah has received virtually no media coverage beyond local news reports. His brother, who was with him at the 7-Eleven, says Taylor was unarmed.

The negligible coverage of the Taylor case by the mainstream media prompted many conservative critics to address the racial double standard. The Washington Times reports: "Talk-show host Rush Limbaugh blamed the discrepancy between the two cases on 'the liberal world view' that portrays whites as oppressors and blacks as victims."


Kind of how it goes with reverse racial makeup.

http://theweek.com/article/index/26...unarmed-white-youth-by-a-black-police-officer

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I can't imagine what it will be like if the GJ finds that the shooting was justified.

I also cannot imagine what it will be like if they decide to indict OW. Then they will be wanting an immediate trial and it may take years before going to trial. And then we will hear about how that is also unfair to them.

The law seems to be more fair to defendants than to victims when there is a crime committed. The Prosecution has to protect the rights of the defendant, that's what I think they will have a hard time accepting IF it comes to that.

 

[LambChop]

Yep, I do personally know the feeling that the train left the station just before you boarded. Can be very traumatic! :gaah:

I am truly sorry. :therethere: Would you folks like a little more time before I close? I use 5 minutes but I could bump it up to 10 minutes if you feel you need more time...

 

[Linda7NJ]

Tick tock


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jggordo]

CNN Experts Think Audio of Brown Shooting Is a Hoax: &#8216;Someone&#8217;s Trying to Punk CNN&#8217;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLzAqCMnmnA

I hope so, as it would serve them right. I swear the first time I heard this audio I immediately thought " Barry White " . What he is saying about "you're So Fine" is right out of Barry White's lyrics. If that ever makes it to a trial, how will an attorney keep a straight face while presenting it?


https://search.yahoo.com/search;_yl...8&p=barry white can't get enough of your love

JMO

 

[Truthy]

So here is another question for you. Do you think the Chief released a statement that DW was injured because of all the misinformation that was being circulated as fact regarding the fracture? Whenever a news article says there information is from "inside sources" you have to wonder how accurate it is. Did anyone actually confirm Josie's story or was it just someone randomly calling with a story??? Not that we should sleuth her, just what kind of confirmation did MSM get.

You don't have to look for the information, just wondered if anyone has this information to consider for the media thread.

Did the police say a fracture or just swelling? In the other link you provided earlier it just said swelling. Thanks!