MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[William N]

I have wondered how it's going to affect policing all this - or if it's affecting policing already. Every white cop in the country has to feel like they have a target on their backs now. They have to know that even if it's a totally justified shooting this could be them tomorrow: automatically branded a racist killer, getting death threats, living in hiding, your face all over CNN, journalists drawing maps to your home, the New York Times writing articles about what your mother did twenty years ago and calling it news. We have no idea if this was a justified shooting or not and look what happened to Wilson already. How can that not affect how they respond to calls?

And IMO the evidence is stronger every day that it was a justified shooting.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I was watching something last night about a study being conducted at some university on the use of deadly force by police.
The preliminary data showed police reacted with heightened vigilance of black suspects by both black and white officers and that they typically over compensated in reaction time...
Did anyone else catch this? I was more than half asleep and failed to get the details.


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[bwt42]

I don't know if he KNEW that MB did not have a weapon, but I wonder why he didn't seem concerned about DJ at all. Did it ever occur to him that DJ might have a weapon? He needed back-up to deal with both of them. JMO

He may have ben concerned. We don't know.

 

[Truthy]

Not sure where your brother lives but he might want to brush up on the actual laws. The rest of your post is pure speculation. You don't know what Officer Wilson KNEW or didn't know. It is Wilson's perception of the situation not anyone else's, especially not in "hindsight"

My brother did 30 years in the NYPD, an was a union delegate protecting cops who had reports filed against them. The rule was, they needed to "see" a weapon or make a credible claim they saw one, and not merely fear they might have a gun.

Otherwsie, you could shoot at anyone, anytime. And we don't want that, do we? IMHO, we do not want to give cops unlimited powers, they should actually abide by law like the rest of us. IMHO, I don't like any excuses that it's okay for cops to break the law. None. That kind of culture leads to idiocy like that one cop threatening to kill people for not moving fast enough. He was dead wrong, and I am glad he was relived of duty with that display of bad temprement.

 

[cady]

I repeat, an individual weighing nearly 300 pounds IS armed. IMO the evidence shows MB was running TOWARD OW. Why do you think all the wounds were to the front?

JMO EEK! Guess we had better be wary of our 300 lb friends and relatives! JMO

 

[gngr~snap]

How do we know that this juvenile record is for the Michael Brown that died on the street in Furgison?

Michael is the 4th most common given name in the US, Brown is the 4th most common surname. Even with less common names, assuming that only one person has that name is a classic mistake.

I am behind this has been stated already.
Probably only one
Michael Orlandus Darrion Brown though.
http://neighborheart.org/ferguson-in-thousands-at-the-funeral-of-michael-brown-in-spike-lees-church/

All posts are MOO

 

[Truthy]

I repeat, an individual weighing nearly 300 pounds IS armed. IMO the evidence shows MB was running TOWARD OW. Why do you think all the wounds were to the front?

Armed has a specific meaning- carrying a weapon. If you want to ignore that- you are ignoring the law of the land, IMHO. Why is ignoring that law okay with you? Not understanding that at all.

 

[Ladylub]

I can't belive I am reading that it was okay to point rifles at the crowd. Or that it is okay under any circumstances that LE do not follow the law.
They are not in uniform if they don't show their badges, there is no excuse for that- it's their job. No one has come out and admitted that they authorized them to hide their identities, despite requests for clarity. Arresting officers MUST identify themselves when they arrest you, but many refused to.
That is a police state, and intolerable. If they cannot "keep the peace" without threatening to shoot people and calling them names, they do not deserve the job. Many officers maintained a sense of calm and did their jobs correctly. The reason people "trust" police is that they are held to a higher standard because they have been gven so much power. The reason people are not "trusting" police is some of them are not holding up their end of the bargain.
I bet if any of you had police spraying bullets at your homes for trying to arrest a neighbor who jaywalked, you'd be protesting too.
All IMHO.

If a bullet ended up in my house over jaywalking I might get mad. If a bullet ended up hitting my house when it came to a person who already hit that cop I would be out their shaking their hand and making sure they were okay.
If not showing their badge helped protect their kids I glad they were out of uniform. Who says the officers did not ID themselves to these people who were detained? Yes it is okay to point a gun a a rowdy group of people threatening the officers.

As I said they should have kept the animals comments under their breathe but in the heat of the moment things get said. Least of my worries with this case are annoyed cops calling the ones causing issues like they see them.

 

[Dana]

I can't belive I am reading that it was okay to point rifles at the crowd. Or that it is okay under any circumstances that LE do not follow the law.
They are not in uniform if they don't show their badges, there is no excuse for that- it's their job. No one has come out and admitted that they authorized them to hide their identities, despite requests for clarity. Arresting officers MUST identify themselves when they arrest you, but many refused to.
That is a police state, and intolerable. If they cannot "keep the peace" without threatening to shoot people and calling them names, they do not deserve the job. Many officers maintained a sense of calm and did their jobs correctly. The reason people "trust" police is that they are held to a higher standard because they have been gven so much power. The reason people are not "trusting" police is some of them are not holding up their end of the bargain.
I bet if any of you had police spraying bullets at your homes for trying to arrest a neighbor who jaywalked, you'd be protesting too.
All IMHO.

Jaywalked????????????? Who??

 

[bwt42]

I know something serious happened between MB & OW at the car. A gun going off would have to be reported IMO. My guess is that if MB surrendered (if he had the chance) before he ran he would have been charged with assualt & resisting arrest. Not saying it would be right, only that is what would happen. Anyone disagree?

 

[gngr~snap]

Okay, I got to check this out now. I myself heard Don Lemon live on CNN say that the New Black Panther Party was now known as the Black Lawyers for Justice. Being there, I assume he'd know, and he's certainly MSM, but can anyone confirm if this is true?

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/18/wolf.01.html

Don Lemon: At this point, though, what will it take to end the violent protests? I want to bring in someone who says he is ready to call and -- to ask, I should say, that's more like it for you, moratorium on protesting. And that is Malik Shabazz, the National President of the Black Lawyers for Justice which was formerly the New Black Panther Party. So, what are you -- what are you asking for? You said you're not calling, you're asking. For what?*

MALIK SHABAZZ, NATIONAL PRESIDENT, BLACK LAWYERS FOR JUSTICE: Well, first of all, due to those results and the people's demands for justice in this case, that they do have to march. But what we're asking for, and they're going to march tonight, and we're going to help them. But what we're going to make sure is that after sundown, that there -- that everything ends peacefully. And that the cause is respected. And that agents and people that are here to mess up the good will of these demonstrators are not allowed to take over this

All posts are MOO

 

[DebinGA]

Armed has a specific meaning- carrying a weapon. If you want to ignore that- you are ignoring the law of the land, IMHO. Why is ignoring that law okay with you? Not understanding that at all.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2008-2012.xls

FBI: personal weapon: hands, fists, feet, and including pushing .... over 700 murders annually

 

[Ladylub]

I don't know if he KNEW that MB did not have a weapon, but I wonder why he didn't seem concerned about DJ at all. Did it ever occur to him that DJ might have a weapon? He needed back-up to deal with both of them. JMO

I think OW either did not see where DJ went or was not trying to arrest DJ or didn't find him a threat b/c DJ was not involved in the "tussle" in the car.

Not sticking up for DJ but DJ already put the stuff back on the counter. Seems like he was not trying to get caught up in that, I doubt he would get caught up in a "tussle" with a police officer.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

According to my brother, 30 years on the job- as soon as the unarmed perp is running away, the danger is over. He KNEW he had no weapon. That seems more like revenge, than protecting anyone. IMHO- spraying the bullets all over that street shows how little interest he had in protecting the community.

How exactly did OW know he was unarmed? Without doing a pat down, he could not have known.

 

[TheDuchess]

http://thepolicenews.net/default.as...ry=News+1-2&newsletterid=47254&menugroup=Home

ETA: Title of the piece: "Can unarmed individuals kill police officers?"

"The answer is absolutely YES. And here's how: 511 law enforcement officers in the past decade have been murdered on duty. And 53 of them have been executed by their own guns by the UNARMED harmless innocent people.?!

Media MUST stop repeating every minute that an unarmed innocent person was murdered by the police. And fuel and cause the riots we have seen every night in Ferguson....."

BBM- I am just replying to myself again for emphasis. This is a staggering statistic!!! That means that over 10% of officers killed were killed by UNARMED people!!! Most of them by gaining the officers weapon. While being "unarmed" is of note, it is NOT equivalent as being "not a danger." 10%!!! :gaah:

 

[gngr~snap]

I was watching something last night about a study being conducted at some university on the use of deadly force by police.
The preliminary data showed police reacted with heightened vigilance of black suspects by both black and white officers and that they typically over compensated in reaction time...
Did anyone else catch this? I was more than half asleep and failed to get the details.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are still playing that clip today. It was done in Washington State IIRC.

All posts are MOO

 

[JLSChook]

Armed has a specific meaning- carrying a weapon. If you want to ignore that- you are ignoring the law of the land, IMHO. Why is ignoring that law okay with you? Not understanding that at all.

Not true. Deadly weapons include hands and feet. (this has been posted in the many threads on this case)

 

[Dana]

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/18/wolf.01.html

Don Lemon: At this point, though, what will it take to end the violent protests? I want to bring in someone who says he is ready to call and -- to ask, I should say, that's more like it for you, moratorium on protesting. And that is Malik Shabazz, the National President of the Black Lawyers for Justice which was formerly the New Black Panther Party. So, what are you -- what are you asking for? You said you're not calling, you're asking. For what?*

MALIK SHABAZZ, NATIONAL PRESIDENT, BLACK LAWYERS FOR JUSTICE: Well, first of all, due to those results and the people's demands for justice in this case, that they do have to march. But what we're asking for, and they're going to march tonight, and we're going to help them. But what we're going to make sure is that after sundown, that there -- that everything ends peacefully. And that the cause is respected. And that agents and people that are here to mess up the good will of these demonstrators are not allowed to take over this

All posts are MOO

Oh, REALLY??

Malik Zulu Shabazz led a crowd in a chant, calling for the death of Darren Wilson, the officer identified in the shooting death of Michael Brown:

“What do we want?” “Darren Wilson.” “How do we want him?” “Dead.”

**Hmm, sounds like he's all about peace to me <sarcasm>

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168...ath-chant-officer-involved-ferguson-shooting/

 

[LambChop]

My brother did 30 years in the NYPD, an was a union delegate protecting cops who had reports filed against them. The rule was, they needed to "see" a weapon or make a credible claim they saw one, and not merely fear they might have a gun.

Otherwsie, you could shoot at anyone, anytime. And we don't want that, do we? IMHO, we do not want to give cops unlimited powers, they should actually abide by law like the rest of us. IMHO, I don't like any excuses that it's okay for cops to break the law. None. That kind of culture leads to idiocy like that one cop threatening to kill people for not moving fast enough. He was dead wrong, and I am glad he was relived of duty with that display of bad temprement.

This officer was attacked by the suspect. In MO no gun is needed if you are attacked. Are the laws in NYC different that MO? Stand your ground is a law to protect private citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

The use of force by LE for MO has been posted here numerous times. If a poster has that handy maybe they can post it again if anyone is unclear on what is considered a threat.

 

[Truthy]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2008-2012.xls

FBI: personal weapon: hands, fists, feet, and including pushing .... over 700 murders annually

The context of the discussion is when it is okay to use "deadly force", and the threat must be real and current.

If the first volley of those shots were fired as he was running away- as every single direct witness we have heard from claims- that is very troublesome, because there was not current threat.