MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[1&2&3]

Many years ago, before computers and cell phones, there was a city LE with the same name as hubby. We got a number of scary and frightening phone calls which were meant for this man. We always reported them to the police so they were aware of them. We even took hubby's name out and used initials only in the phone directory. This slowed things down, but calls and threats still came. By this time, we had removed our address from the directory. Once my firstborn started school, I became terrified, so we were advised to put the phone listing in my name.

Now for a funny part to this story, many times over the years, I was turned down trying to pay for items using a check. Our account was Mr & Mrs. First name, Middle initial, Last name, the cops middle initial was different, however, stores never noticed that! The man finally got promoted to inside and life calmed down after ten years! Whew. . .:happydance:

 

[LambChop]

Please do not give me a link!

You no likie linkies? :floorlaugh:

 

[EvilSoup]

Please do not give me a link!

Don't worry, lol. I can't seem to get it right. Think I'll go light the grill.

 

[Oceans]

Haven't seen this yet....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnAV9h3bFiI&feature=youtu.be&a

ETA- this is a video of Piaget telling her story to a reporter, which is being also recorded by someone from the NBPs. I'm not sure if I hear any discrepancies. One thing I did hear that was different was that she said LE came and pulled down the community cameras. I know I had heard there was no video that existed from the shooting and OW wasn't wearing a body cam. But wondering if there is a possibility that there really is an actual video of the shooting. I'm sure it would have been released by this point, however.

Good catch! I had to listen very carefully to even hear it. It was at 5.20. It would be great if the actual events would be on that surveillance camera!

What I noticed: Piaget Crenshaw put her hand in the air (don't shot me position) and claimed that was when the cop shot. IMO, this does NOT corroborate with the autopsy report as the arm shows wound from the front (with arms in the air it would be the backside of the arm, IMO), she is also standing straight and claims MB was shot in the face which would not corroborate either as the head would have to bend forwards (shot above the eye brow with exit would through neck/chest) and the top of the head would also be caused by having the head bend forwards.

ETA: All the noise around that apartment is very annoying, IMO, it's very hard to listen to this video. I wonder why they would not go inside her apartment instead of standing outside during this entire interview. JMO.

 

[LambChop]

Okay for those who just have to vent their political views, here is the elevator right to the basement.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?27-The-Political-Pavilion

 

[human]

That is great that you have the empathy, patience, and energy to provide assistance and support.
I'm sure you have positively impacted many people's live and serve as a role model to many.
I just want to add that it is possible to come from an alcoholic environment that is mixed with sexual abuse and become highly successful in academia and in a career as well. But one thing is for certain, one can never lean on the excuse that they shouldn't achieve because the odds are stacked against them. If you believe you should never expect much -- that's when you're giving in. If you believe groups of people hate you and are holding you down, then you will buy it and be held down. Anger only destroys from within and built-in excuses for failure only flame that anger.

Coming from a point of dysfunction makes some of life more difficult.
But overcoming it can and does happen.

Kudos once again, human....for all you do through your strength to help society. My blessings for sure.

Yes, people are their own worst enemies. We are often hostages of our own minds.

People can overcome. It happens. But with so many odds against them, it is almost impossible even with help. Where I live, public transportation stops around 11 PM. The jobs people can get starting out often are overnight shifts at the grocery store, nursing home, hospital, cleaning and so on. Where does your child go overnight? And how do you get your child there and how do you get to work?

Many women had gone to those for profit schools which prepared them for a minimum wage job and gave them huge loans for the huge tuition they charge.

So now they had to try to pay those loans back on low wage jobs . They cannot go to school for additional training until they pay those loans back, which will be in 20-30'years.

Another sweet thing that happens is that they want love. So they fall for some loser's BS love story. He is a lying loser so he ends up doing something that gets the woman kicked out of govt housing. Once you are kicked out, you are kicked out for ten years.

Now the woman needs housing, but landlords don't want her. They do background checks here.

She now has to rent from a slum lord who charges huge money because he knows that these people have no options and will default soon. She cannot afford the rent so she has to start selling her body or drugs to survive.

Many women do not have families to fall back on for help. The families have their own crises.

Then there is the mental illness caused by who knows what. Is it the abuse they were raised with? Is it genetic?

Everyone has to choose what they will do, but the choice is a lot easier if you have a loving home, money, food, health, and hope.

How many people are there that came from huge wealth and squandered their lives?

The grandson of the founder of Bakelite , the first plastic, was gay. His mother did not like that so she had sex with him to try to get him to go straight. He eventually murdered her. The family of Pabst brewing. More tragedy. All opportunities, but mess up your life big time!

 

[reedus23]

I can only answer for myself. Out of all of the videos I've seen and heard, I give this witness the most weight because to me it appears he has no hidden agenda, he hasn't run to the media, etc. He seems to be a bystander just talking about what he saw.

As for his version being generally accepted, I can't answer that. But I have seen other posters that expressed the same thoughts.

Thanks for that. I don't think I was clear in what I was asking though. I'm not asking for people to weigh in again on this person's credibility. What I am trying to do is figure out exactly what he said. I have seen different sources attribute different words to what they think they hear on the tape. I am wondering if there is an "official" version of what words were actually spoken? I imagine if that had happened we would have heard about it. So my next question is, is there a source that is generally deemed more reliable in transcribing what they think they are hearing.

Again, not asking if his "version" is generally accepted as true. Asking if there is a generally accepted transcription of what he supposedly is saying because I have read varying words attributed to the person. TIA and thanks for your response.

 

[reedus23]

Black Canseco witness:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/excited-utterance


An exclamation made at the moment of an accident or other unexpected and disturbing event, considered under the rules of evidence to be likely to be truthful because of the urgency of the surrounding circumstances and, therefore, an exception to the hearsay rule

I am assuming you are responding to me as well and I thank you for that. I get what excited utterances are and am not looking to get into a debate of what constitutes an excited utterance and what doesn't. I am simply looking for an accurate transcription of what is believed to be heard. I have read various transcriptions of what people think they hear and I'm wondering which one, if any, is generally accepted as accurate if there is not an "official" transcription.

 

[branwynbreeze]

For me the biggest confirmation that MB did crime is lawyers claiming it's irrelevant to shooting. I think they would address it if he was innocent. Omission is a good tool.

I bought into the whole "MB committed a strong arm robbery" thing for quite a while too, but I too am starting to question if this was really the case. I'll leave it at that, because I don't have any MSM links to back up the other scenarios I've heard suggested. I have read, though, that the store clerk never actually called in a robbery at his store, or filled out a robbery report, which seems odd to me. Apparently another customer did - but did that customer have the whole story of what happened?

 

[bettybaby00]

Okay for those who just have to vent their political views, here is the elevator right to the basement.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?27-The-Political-Pavilion

:lol:

 

[bettybaby00]

For me the biggest confirmation that MB did crime is lawyers claiming it's irrelevant to shooting. I think they would address it if he was innocent. Omission is a good tool.

Add in what they do admit and it's not hard to connect the dots.

JMO

 

[TheDuchess]

Okay for those who just have to vent their political views, here is the elevator right to the basement.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?27-The-Political-Pavilion

Thank you and ITA. It is really easy to get sidetracked onto the political discussions, which is EXACTLY what the agitators want. Because look at us. We have stopped talking about whether the shooting of MB was justified by OW. We have gone onto tangents about race relations, traffic fines, standard of living. We are talking about what OTHER police officers have done in the past. We are talking about cases that date back 14 years and longer. We have even forayed into the cases of OJ, Rodney King, etc...

The outside agitators have gotten everyone's focus AWAY from the rule of law and the evidence in the case and onto so many other potentially volatile and emotional issues outside of that to cloud the important issue.

Was the shooting of MB justified and reasonable force. I believe that at the end of the day, the actual evidence will determine if it is or isn't. All this other nonsense we have all gotten sidetracked by is smoke and mirrors for people with a completely different agenda.

 

[Dana]

I don't know about anyone else but I find it suspect/weird that Paiget, Tiffany and DJ were all on the same side of the street after the MB shooting discussing what took place (from the pictures I've seen in the Media Thread). They all were very sure that MB was surrendering and he had his hands up. YET, MBrady, who was on the opposite side had no idea what was said and he stated, to various interviewers (ACooper for one, also in the Media Thread) that he did NOT see any hands up or surrendering. He also stated he missed seeing part since he left the window and ran outside. The altercation and shooting took only minutes so it seems he missed a portion of what happened. The fact NO ONE that was interviewed bothered to film this incident until after MB is on the ground bothers me because they all had their iphones out calling people or taking pics after the fact. I do give 'some' weight to MBrady only because MB was directly across from his apartment and could actually see most of what happened, ie MB punching/'movin his arms' at OW, MB running, OW in pursuit outside the vehicle, DJ hiding behind the cars. Brady gets outside to see MB with his arms DOWN in front of him and falling to the ground.

I found it very amazing that all these witnesses could not hear gun shots through a window right in front of them OR only heard 4 shots while standing in the vicinity
outside. I'd truly hate to be on the GJ and have to sift through all this.

I call the 3 witnesses, Paiget, Tiffany and DJ ground zero for why we have all the hands up craziness. IMO, I don't at all think MB was surrendering or had his hands up. I do hope when these three have to testify in front of a GJ and knowing the repercussions of lying, that they are scared enough to tell the truth of what they saw and heard, not what they've been coached to say to the media. MOO

Also note and also in the media thread, the activist(s) that arrived at the scene immediately and were photographed behind DJ giving his hands up account interview.

 

[reedus23]

Thank you and ITA. It is really easy to get sidetracked onto the political discussions, which is EXACTLY what the agitators want. Because look at us. We have stopped talking about whether the shooting of MB was justified by OW. We have gone onto tangents about race relations, traffic fines, standard of living. We are talking about what OTHER police officers have done in the past. We are talking about cases that date back 14 years and longer. We have even forayed into the cases of OJ, Rodney King, etc...

The outside agitators have gotten everyone's focus AWAY from the rule of law and the evidence in the case and onto so many other potentially volatile and emotional issues outside of that to cloud the important issue.

Was the shooting of MB justified and reasonable force. I believe that at the end of the day, the actual evidence will determine if it is or isn't. All this other nonsense we have all gotten sidetracked by is smoke and mirrors for people with a completely different agenda.

Great post. I would only add that while yes, the agitators try to redefine the issues, it is also being redefined by the other side as well. Having said that, those other issues are probably still issues that have to be addressed, but just maybe not related to whether or not this shooting specifically was justified.

 

[jmcgladr]

Coming into the discussion late, so not even sure how it became an issue or why it is, but I will say I think it's not even feasible that everyone in a department reside in that city. Some of these cities are just not that large. While I certainly get the concept or thought that officers being a member of the community would help stop the "us versus them" mentality, I just don't know that it is feasible, regardless of the any danger/risks/threats from living in that community.

I had given some thoughts way earlier in the threads that what I do think needs to be done more, is the officers need to be involved with the community more. More than DARE talks to kids where they show up in uniform. I'm talking about community events where they show up in plain clothes and interact with the community to show the community they are human beings, not just some object in a uniform. Develop relationships with the community so they know you are not there just to issue as many tickets and make as many arrests as possible. Show them that you are there to serve them, not just arrest them. There are obviously a ton of things that can and need to be done from the community end as well, starting with the adults taking more of a role in the young people's lives and not turning a blind eye to inappropriate behavior. But I think there are things the department can do to eliminate the "us versus them" mentality without actually living in the city in question.

I agree very much with the BBM. Our city has always had positive interactions with police like this. My kids' elementary school has a very kind and friendly constable, always the same one, who comes in and talks about various issues with them. Ditto for my practicum school, who had an officer come in and discuss online safety with the kids heading to middle school. I was enjoying a coffee at my local donut shop and some motorcycle cops were standing outside and letting kid after kid climb up on their bikes. Not an event, just an ordinary day.

 

[TheDuchess]

I don't know about anyone else but I find it suspect/weird that Paiget, Tiffany and DJ were all on the same side of the street after the MB shooting discussing what took place (from the pictures I've seen in the Media Thread). They all were very sure that MB was surrendering and he had his hands up. YET, MBrady, who was on the opposite side had no idea what was said and he stated, to various interviewers (ACooper for one, also in the Media Thread) that he did NOT see any hands up or surrendering. He also stated he missed seeing part since he left the window and ran outside. The altercation and shooting took only minutes so it seems he missed a portion of what happened. The fact NO ONE that was interviewed bothered to film this incident until after MB is on the ground bothers me because they all had their iphones out calling people or taking pics after the fact. I do give 'some' weight to MBrady only because MB was directly across from his apartment and could actually see most of what happened, ie MB punching/'movin his arms' at OW, MB running, OW in pursuit outside the vehicle, DJ hiding behind the cars. Brady gets outside to see MB with his arms DOWN in front of him and falling to the ground.

I found it very amazing that all these witnesses could not hear gun shots through a window right in front of them OR only heard 4 shots while standing in the vicinity
outside. I'd truly hate to be on the GJ and have to sift through all this.

I call the 3 witnesses, Paiget, Tiffany and DJ ground zero for why we have all the hands up craziness. IMO, I don't at all think MB was surrendering or had his hands up. I do hope when these three have to testify in front of a GJ and knowing the repercussions of lying, that they are scared enough to tell the truth of what they saw and heard, not what they've been coached to say to the media. MOO

Also note and also in the media thread, the activist(s) that arrived at the scene immediately and were photographed behind DJ giving his hands up account interview.

BBM - FWIW MB's mother was with them as well and that man in the green that has been running around with the NBPs organizing protests was there with them as well.

 

[reedus23]

I don't know about anyone else but I find it suspect/weird that Paiget, Tiffany and DJ were all on the same side of the street after the MB shooting discussing what took place (from the pictures I've seen in the Media Thread). They all were very sure that MB was surrendering and he had his hands up. YET, MBrady, who was on the opposite side had no idea what was said and he stated, to various interviewers (ACooper for one, also in the Media Thread) that he did NOT see any hands up or surrendering. He also stated he missed seeing part since he left the window and ran outside. The altercation and shooting took only minutes so it seems he missed a portion of what happened. The fact NO ONE that was interviewed bothered to film this incident until after MB is on the ground bothers me because they all had their iphones out calling people or taking pics after the fact. I do give 'some' weight to MBrady only because MB was directly across from his apartment and could actually see most of what happened, ie MB punching/'movin his arms' at OW, MB running, OW in pursuit outside the vehicle, DJ hiding behind the cars. Brady gets outside to see MB with his arms DOWN in front of him and falling to the ground.

I found it very amazing that all these witnesses could not hear gun shots through a window right in front of them OR only heard 4 shots while standing in the vicinity
outside. I'd truly hate to be on the GJ and have to sift through all this.

I call the 3 witnesses, Paiget, Tiffany and DJ ground zero for why we have all the hands up craziness. IMO, I don't at all think MB was surrendering or had his hands up. I do hope when these three have to testify in front of a GJ and knowing the repercussions of lying, that they are scared enough to tell the truth of what they saw and heard, not what they've been coached to say to the media. MOO

Also note and also in the media thread, the activist(s) that arrived at the scene immediately and were photographed behind DJ giving his hands up account interview.

Do we have any witnesses that say, with certainty, that MB's hand's were NOT up? Serious question. Brady doesn't say he never had them up, just says he didn't see that. I'm going to guess not since we haven't heard from DW. I suppose it is up to each individual to simply discard eye witness testimony even if there is no eye witness testimony to the contrary.

Myself, I don't discount it but will wait and weight it against all of the evidence. I mean, for all we know, DW's version will be that MB stopped, turned, put his hands up and then charged him. In that event, all of the eye witnesses that have been discounted were, in fact accurate.

Only point is, while it's one thing to come to a conclusion based off of what is known, we (or at least I) will remain flexible enough to reach a different conclusion when we actually know more.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Do we have any witnesses that say, with certainty, that MB's hand's were NOT up? Serious question. Brady doesn't say he never had them up, just says he didn't see that. I'm going to guess not since we haven't heard from DW. I suppose it is up to each individual to simply discard eye witness testimony even if there is no eye witness testimony to the contrary.

Myself, I don't discount it but will wait and weight it against all of the evidence. I mean, for all we know, DW's version will be that MB stopped, turned, put his hands up and then charged him. In that event, all of the eye witnesses that have been discounted were, in fact accurate.

Only point is, while it's one thing to come to a conclusion based off of what is known, we (or at least I) will remain flexible enough to reach a different conclusion when we actually know more.

If I were his defense attorney (hoping he doesn't need one), I might go with that one so that all witness statements line up.

 

[jmcgladr]

Thank you and ITA. It is really easy to get sidetracked onto the political discussions, which is EXACTLY what the agitators want. Because look at us. We have stopped talking about whether the shooting of MB was justified by OW. We have gone onto tangents about race relations, traffic fines, standard of living. We are talking about what OTHER police officers have done in the past. We are talking about cases that date back 14 years and longer. We have even forayed into the cases of OJ, Rodney King, etc...

The outside agitators have gotten everyone's focus AWAY from the rule of law and the evidence in the case and onto so many other potentially volatile and emotional issues outside of that to cloud the important issue.

Was the shooting of MB justified and reasonable force. I believe that at the end of the day, the actual evidence will determine if it is or isn't. All this other nonsense we have all gotten sidetracked by is smoke and mirrors for people with a completely different agenda.

Personally, I like to investigate the other aspects that are involved in this case, though. Some are more relevant than others, of course, but lots of things play into why Ferguson is the way it is and a narrow focus won't give us many answers, IMO. I don't think people mention things that are tangentially related to the case to be "agitators," it's because they (me included) are intellectually curious. Also, the case is at a standstill right now with the snail pace of the grand jury proceedings, so it's nice to have things to discuss, IMO.

 

[reedus23]

Personally, I like to investigate the other aspects that are involved in this case, though. Some are more relevant than others, of course, but lots of things play into why Ferguson is the way it is and a narrow focus won't give us many answers, IMO. I don't think people mention things that are tangentially related to the case to be "agitators," it's because they (me included) are intellectually curious. Also, the case is at a standstill right now with the snail pace of the grand jury proceedings, so it's nice to have things to discuss, IMO.

Those other aspects as you say will go to helping make sure a situation like this is less likely to happen again. And I'm not talking about just the shooting, though that is certainly included. But also the aftermath that we've seen as well. Getting an answer to strictly whether or not this shooting was justified will not go a long way to making sure it doesn't happen in the future. Frankly, even if the officer were charged and found guilty of an unjustified killing, it's still not going to fix the problems that are present in Ferguson and other communities like it.