MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[tlcya]

It won't matter TorisMom, IMO

There are going to be a lot of disappointed people all over when Officer Wilson is not indicted.

I wish I had a big bus to go pick up all those people of Ferguson who were cleaning up after the protests and holding makeshift 'school' in the library, before the sh*! hits the fan.

Yes, those nameless, faceless individuals trying to maintain calm and uphold some semblance of normalcy for themselves and for the children are the mostly unsung heroes in this case IMO. I cannot express the depth of my appreciation for ice pop lady, and those like her who simply want to be kind, helpful, law abiding citizens and have not jumped on any particular bandwagons to further the escalation of misinformation, violence and unrest.

My heart and respect goes out to all those citizens who simply want to make things better.

 

[sorrell skye]

Probably starting back in 2000, the voters of Ferguson should have not re-elected him every election since then if it is believed he's a racist unjust prosecutor. IIRC, he runs every 4 years, last election he defeated a black woman for the position of prosecutor.

St. Louis County DA McCulloch is elected by all the voters of the county, not just the voters of Ferguson.

According to the demographics, the majority of St. Louis County is Caucasian.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/29189.html

White alone, percent, 2013 70.3%

Black or African American alone, percent, 2013 23.7%

....................................................................................

Even if every single African American in St. Louis County registered to vote and also voted against McCulloch, how can they defeat a majority Caucasian/European American population (assuming that African Americans would have voted against the incumbent and assuming that the majority of Caucasians/European Americans would have voted for the incumbent)?

The link below has info regarding the ethnicity of registered voters in St. Louis County.

http://censusviewer.com/county/MO/St. Louis

 

[Linda7NJ]

St. Louis County DA McCulloch is elected by all the voters of the county, not just the voters of Ferguson.

According to the demographics, the majority of St. Louis County is Caucasian.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/29189.html

White alone, percent, 2013 70.3%

Black or African American alone, percent, 2013 23.7%

....................................................................................

Even if every single African American in St. Louis County registered to vote and also voted against McCulloch, how can they defeat a majority Caucasian/European American population (assuming that the African Americans would have voted against the incumbent and assuming that the majority of Caucasians/European Americans would have voted for the incumbent)?

The link below has info regarding the ethnicity of registered voters in St. Louis County.

http://censusviewer.com/county/MO/St. Louis

Waaaay too much assuming IMO. I don't believe people vote based on race.


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[Phoebeb]

What happens if the truth is that Brown did not have his hands in the air? Will the truth really matter to some of those people? Will they continue to claim that a "racist" cop killed a "boy" that had his hands in the air?

I don't think they would ever hear that. They stopped following the story once they heard cops shot unarmed gentle giant kid in broad daylight as he held hands up in surrender. Nope, it won't matter. imo

 

[sorrell skye]

Waaaay too much assuming IMO. I don't believe people vote based on race.


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According to many posts here, it seems that folks are blaming the citizens of Ferguson for not voting McCulloch out of office (claiming that if they don't like him or don't trust him, why didn't they vote him out), which was why I posted the above stats in my preceding post.

 

[Oceans]

What happens if the truth is that Brown did not have his hands in the air? Will the truth really matter to some of those people? Will they continue to claim that a "racist" cop killed a "boy" that had his hands in the air?

IMO, yes, as most people believe, what they WANT to believe! Those slogans "Unarmed boy shot when walking down the street" or "Executed while hands in the air" or "Hands up! Don't shoot!" project a certain image in some people's mind where they no longer will change their mind when actual FACTS come out! I don't know if some people identify with MB or have a son like him who could get into trouble as well. Just some speculation. JMO.

 

[TheDuchess]

What happens if the truth is that Brown did not have his hands in the air? Will the truth really matter to some of those people? Will they continue to claim that a "racist" cop killed a "boy" that had his hands in the air?

Either none of these people have watched a lick of news since the beginning of all of this, they honestly do not care, or they are just too uneducated to understand the law. What kills me the most is that I would love to check the IDs of these protesters taking over the streets of Ferguson and see just how many of them actually live in Ferguson. I can't imagine the actual residents of Ferguson want to deal with this on a daily basis.

There are so many wonderful examples of young African American males these people can be focusing their civic efforts on. There is a boy from the Jackie Robinson Little League, for example, that was homeless the entire time he was playing in the series! There are so many black leaders who can be the voice of reason for this community, but they reject them. Why? Look at Dr. Ben Carson, for example. A successful, extremely well educated man who rejects this kind of race baiting and blaming. Who talks about personal responsibility.

But no...Michael Brown is the person they have decided to make a martyr. The one they have chosen as their epitome of the black struggle. The one they hold up as a shining example of what is right with the world. They want to teach our children to hate whites, to hate cops and extoll the virtues of change. For Michael Brown, a young man who chose, during the last moments of his short life, to strong arm rob a convenience store, to defy a cops authority, to assault him, etc... The lesson here isn't that being black will get you killed. The lesson here is that if you don't want to get shot by a cop some day, then don't commit violent crimes and provoke an officer of the law by assaulting him.

And finally....as far as the racial issue goes....I don't give a good gosh darn if it IS proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt that OW did in fact shoot MB in cold blood exactly as first described. There isn't one SHRED of proof that race has ANYTHING to do with it. There I NO evidence that anything about this incident has ANYTHING to do with race. Even DJ never said OW called them a racist name. OW has no history of being a racist despite an exhaustive search of his past. NOTHING.

All that does is further the myth that the ONLY reason for conflict between a white person and a black person is race. How did we ever get back to this place???

 

[tlcya]

Waaaay too much assuming IMO. I don't believe people vote based on race.


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I don't but then I am finding that similarities I assumed I shared with many may not be so.

 

[Linda7NJ]

According to many posts here, it seems that folks are blaming the citizens of Ferguson for not voting McCulloch out of office (claiming that if they don't like him or don't trust him, why didn't they vote him out), which was why I posted the above stats in my preceding post.

I understand...

My point is if they were so unhappy with him...the least they could have done was turn out to vote. They didn't.



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[oceanblueeyes]

Before I go to bed I wanted to address this particular post that was made in the prior thread. I will say goodnight to everyone now:loveyou: and have a great Sunday. Sorry I had to copy and paste jmcladr's post.

QUOTE=jmcgladr;10910503]Not sure it this "proves" he is unfair (depends on your perspective) but McCulloch DOES have a history of upholding grand jury "no bills" on police officer shootings. This does worry me, and make me think an indictment is unlikely if the grand jury proceeds. Not because of the facts, per se, but who controls the facts and molds the opinion of the jurors (the prosecutor). McCulloch has also expressed political opinions on this specific case to the media:
"McCulloch decried Missouri Governor Jay Nixon’s decision to pull the St. Louis County Police out of Ferguson and put the State Highway Patrol in charge, even after the local force’s response to the protests turned Ferguson into a war zone. “To denigrate the men and women of the county police department is shameful,” he said."
http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-prosecutor-robert-p-mccullochs-long-history-siding-police-267357

My reply:

First I was commenting on the violence. intimidation, strong arm bullying tactics, and terroristic threats that have been made from the beginning of this case. There is never an acceptable reason for any of these things to occur. Gone are the Salem Witch hunt days or I thought so anyway but maybe not. I have never seen where someone thinks they are entitled to demand by threatening violence against an entire town and a police officer about which way a case is to go. Well until this case and it has been filled with nothing but violence, bullying, and terroristic threats. It has been disgusting to watch. It is appalling that this is happening in America which prides itself on IUPG in our justice system. In fact many of these people who have done nothing but incite hatred. rage, and violence should be arrested, and thrown in jail and that includes the elected people as well. IMO

I respectfully disagree. McCullough is following the letter of the law.

When a police officer is involved in a shooting it MUST go before the GJ for an indictment. He cannot bring charges on his own. It is always decided by 12 citizens in MO with 9 making it the majority vote either way. He has no other choice but to honor what the citizens of his own county as voted upon and their decision. So it seems he has a history of following rules and procedures and nothing more. Now he does have a right if he gathers more evidence to return to the GJ and ask for an indictment again but if he has no further evidence then what the GJ voted upon......stands. If they true bill a case it is solely up to the Prosecutor if they take it to trial or not since they are the ones who have the sole burden to prove the case BARD. With a no bill it is entirely different though and his hands are tied.

He does not control the proceedings in the grand jury room. The grand jurors do. I have been on a GJ before and my hubby was just on GJ duty 3 weeks back and they true billed some cases and no billed others which is typical.

All McCullough does is call witnesses and swears them in before they take the stand and ask questions BUT all of the 12 grand jurors present are allowed to ask as many questions as they want individually of each and every witness who testifies. They also have the power to ask that other witnesses be brought before them to testify if they want to hear from them. It is the jurors who have great power. The only one that does not have to testify in this case is OW. Everyone else summoned either by the GJ or Prosecutor must testify.

I am not sure why you quoted the above article since it does not mention anything about the grand jury. But he does have a right to voice his opinion..... for goodness knows every other elected official up there has certainly voiced theirs continuously.

Imo he is right. It was a war zone even before the police came in with force and then of course they decided to bring in Captain Johnson with the MSP and how did that work out when he tried to play Mr. Rogers in the neighborhood? An innocent person was shot by a and I have heard the victim has now died although I cannot confirm that.

The police cant ignore violence and pretend it isn't there. That is what happened in the LA riots when the police just left the protestors alone to commit murder, loot, and burn the area down leaving it in total devastation. And if these people in Ferguson had been left to be lawless on their own they would have burned the entire town down, looted all businesses there, and robbed, and hurt more innocent people.

And not one person was killed by the police when they came in with tear gas and smoke bombs. Yet when they pulled back and when Johnson was over the operation playing touchy feely ......the violence ended up erupting with a person being shot and critically wounded or killed and it was not done by the police.

The police should never be expected to coddle a mob of angry people who were trying to injure the police and create mayhem for innocent others. Officers were injured and 20 police cars damaged. LE wasn't at their annual police picnic. Riots are some of the most volatile situations that can ever take place. They can explode into a horrific event within moments.

JMO

 

[sorrell skye]

I understand...

My point is if they were so unhappy with him...the least they could have done was turn out to vote. They didn't.



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Can you kindly provide a link that states the voters of Ferguson didn't turn out to vote against McCulloch? If this info was posted previously, I may have missed it. TIA

 

[Linda7NJ]

Either none of these people have watched a lick of news since the beginning of all of this, they honestly do not care, or they are just too uneducated to understand the law. What kills me the most is that I would love to check the IDs of these protesters taking over the streets of Ferguson and see just how many of them actually live in Ferguson. I can't imagine the actual residents of Ferguson want to deal with this on a daily basis.

There are so many wonderful examples of young African American males these people can be focusing their civic efforts on. There is a boy from the Jackie Robinson Little League, for example, that was homeless the entire time he was playing in the series! There are so many black leaders who can be the voice of reason for this community, but they reject them. Why? Look at Dr. Ben Carson, for example. A successful, extremely well educated man who rejects this kind of race baiting and blaming. Who talks about personal responsibility.

But no...Michael Brown is the person they have decided to make a martyr. The one they have chosen as their epitome of the black struggle. The one they hold up as a shining example of what is right with the world. They want to teach our children to hate whites, to hate cops and extoll the virtues of change. For Michael Brown, a young man who chose, during the last moments of his short life, to strong arm rob a convenience store, to defy a cops authority, to assault him, etc... The lesson here isn't that being black will get you killed. The lesson here is that if you don't want to get shot by a cop some day, then don't commit violent crimes and provoke an officer of the law by assaulting him.

And finally....as far as the racial issue goes....I don't give a good gosh darn if it IS proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt that OW did in fact shoot MB in cold blood exactly as first described. There isn't one SHRED of proof that race has ANYTHING to do with it. There I NO evidence that anything about this incident has ANYTHING to do with race. Even DJ never said OW called them a racist name. OW has no history of being a racist despite an exhaustive search of his past. NOTHING.

All that does is further the myth that the ONLY reason for conflict between a white person and a black person is race. How did we ever get back to this place???

Brilliant post, thank you!


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[Lovejac]

St. Louis County DA McCulloch is elected by all the voters of the county, not just the voters of Ferguson.

According to the demographics, the majority of St. Louis County is Caucasian.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/29189.html

White alone, percent, 2013 70.3%

Black or African American alone, percent, 2013 23.7%

....................................................................................

Even if every single African American in St. Louis County registered to vote and also voted against McCulloch, how can they defeat a majority Caucasian/European American population (assuming that African Americans would have voted against the incumbent and assuming that the majority of Caucasians/European Americans would have voted for the incumbent)?

The link below has info regarding the ethnicity of registered voters in St. Louis County.

http://censusviewer.com/county/MO/St. Louis

But that kind of thinking it what makes people apathetic about voting. The ole "my one vote won't matter so why bother."

Regarding the percentage of caucasian and AA people in that county , no one can help who decides to live where. That should not be a factor in whether to vote or not. I know you're not saying it is sorrell skye, just commenting in general.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Can you kindly provide a link that states the voters of Ferguson didn't turn out to vote against McCulloch? If this info was posted previously, I may have missed it. TIA

There's a link ^^^ about two threads ago that stated 12% turnout.

This this will work

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-lack-diversity-goes-way-beyond-its-cops
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[TheDuchess]

I have a question (that I can't believe I don't know the answer to) but IF the GJ returns a "no true bill" is that the end of it? Or would someone like the feds be able to come in after the fact and appoint a special prosecutor like they did with Trayvon Martin? I know the feds are doing a "parallel" investigation. What's the rush to pull McCullough?

 

[DebinGA]

According to many posts here, it seems that folks are blaming the citizens of Ferguson for not voting McCulloch out of office (claiming that if they don't like him or don't trust him, why didn't they vote him out), which was why I posted the above stats in my preceding post.

McCulloch has been St Louis County DA since 1991 iirc. People obviously approve of the job he's doing. He's a Democrat, and he's so popular there's not even a Republican on the ballot in the general election.

 

[Lovejac]

According to many posts here, it seems that folks are blaming the citizens of Ferguson for not voting McCulloch out of office (claiming that if they don't like him or don't trust him, why didn't they vote him out), which was why I posted the above stats in my preceding post.

Ha, my issue wasn't necessarily about them voting, I wish they knew just the basics about civil rights in general.

 

[Lovejac]

IMO, yes, as most people believe, what they WANT to believe! Those slogans "Unarmed boy shot when walking down the street" or "Executed while hands in the air" or "Hands up! Don't shoot!" project a certain image in some people's mind where they no longer will change their mind when actual FACTS come out! I don't know if some people identify with MB or have a son like him who could get into trouble as well. Just some speculation. JMO.

Don't forget 'in broad daylight"

 

[Lovejac]

Either none of these people have watched a lick of news since the beginning of all of this, they honestly do not care, or they are just too uneducated to understand the law. What kills me the most is that I would love to check the IDs of these protesters taking over the streets of Ferguson and see just how many of them actually live in Ferguson. I can't imagine the actual residents of Ferguson want to deal with this on a daily basis.

There are so many wonderful examples of young African American males these people can be focusing their civic efforts on. There is a boy from the Jackie Robinson Little League, for example, that was homeless the entire time he was playing in the series! There are so many black leaders who can be the voice of reason for this community, but they reject them. Why? Look at Dr. Ben Carson, for example. A successful, extremely well educated man who rejects this kind of race baiting and blaming. Who talks about personal responsibility.

But no...Michael Brown is the person they have decided to make a martyr. The one they have chosen as their epitome of the black struggle. The one they hold up as a shining example of what is right with the world. They want to teach our children to hate whites, to hate cops and extoll the virtues of change. For Michael Brown, a young man who chose, during the last moments of his short life, to strong arm rob a convenience store, to defy a cops authority, to assault him, etc... The lesson here isn't that being black will get you killed. The lesson here is that if you don't want to get shot by a cop some day, then don't commit violent crimes and provoke an officer of the law by assaulting him.

And finally....as far as the racial issue goes....I don't give a good gosh darn if it IS proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt that OW did in fact shoot MB in cold blood exactly as first described. There isn't one SHRED of proof that race has ANYTHING to do with it. There I NO evidence that anything about this incident has ANYTHING to do with race. Even DJ never said OW called them a racist name. OW has no history of being a racist despite an exhaustive search of his past. NOTHING.

All that does is further the myth that the ONLY reason for conflict between a white person and a black person is race. How did we ever get back to this place???

This deserves more than just hitting the thanks button (which isn't working at the moment for me :waitasec: anyone else?)

:tyou: :goodpost:

 

[Frydaddy]

This deserves more than just hitting the thanks button (which isn't working at the moment for me :waitasec: anyone else?)

:tyou: :goodpost:

Site has been flaky. I hit the previous page number, then the current one and it refreshes with thanks button available for posts.