MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

[Sonya610]

Everyone who fought on either side of that war is dead and we have come a long way since then.

No, we really haven't come a long way since then. Well legally it looks better but the core issues....that won't change. It will never change.

And if your ancestor died at Andersonville Prison it wasn't because the Confederates wanted to starve him to death, it was because the Confederates were starving and couldn't provide food for the prisoners (if they wanted to kill them they could have done it far more efficiently kwim?).

Things were bad, really bad in the South at that time.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I live on a busy street that leads right to the interstate. When an ambulance is called to my street, or a fire truck, or anything a police officer usually shows up too. They will just kind of direct traffic around the ambulance or make sure any kids that have wandered over to check things out stay on the sidewalk, etc.

Where I live, if oxygen is necessary the fire department brings it. I would think the ambulance would have it, but they don't.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The "suicide by cop" mentally disturbed black kid had a two officer car (for the theft of muffens and two energy drinks). Wonder if the rookie fired first?

Can't have one firing and not the other, that would require explaining.

Have you watched the video?


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[LaLaw2000]

I live on a busy street that leads right to the interstate. When an ambulance is called to my street, or a fire truck, or anything a police officer usually shows up too. They will just kind of direct traffic around the ambulance or make sure any kids that have wandered over to check things out stay on the sidewalk, etc.

Down here, it is the ambulance and a fire truck with a paramedic. LE will respond to the call also if it is a domestic violence injury, a shooting, etc. If it is a call for an ambulance for a heart attack, there is no reason for them to respond, IMO. I can only speak for my area, so MOO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Down here, it is the ambulance and a fire truck with a paramedic. LE will respond to the call also if it is a domestic violence injury, a shooting, etc. If it is a call for an ambulance for a heart attack, there is no reason for them to respond, IMO. I can only speak for my area, so MOO.

Here LE is almost always first on the scene, I've witnessed them start CPR..divert traffic, and assist where ever needed.
We have paramedics and ambulances.


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[Sonya610]

There is going to be an investigation into the police department in Ferguson.

Well that was quick, eh? No reassurances and updates regarding the investigation of Darren Wilson, but Ferguson P.D. as a whole and such.

Guessing the GJ will make a decision soon.

 

[BunnyHop]

There is going to be an investigation into the police department in Ferguson.

Got that. Is there a video of PC? I would like to know exactly what he said.

 

[DebinGA]

MB's birthday is May 20, so he entered first grade a "young" age 6, almost a year younger than many in his class. That's not good, especially for boys who generally mature slower than girls. The pics of young MB around 10 show him noticeably overweight, i.e. a likely target for teasing. I've read descriptions of him from his family/friends as "shy" ... "Don't talk to people" ... "had few friends". Then there's the whole changed high schools 4 times thing, which imo shows a lack of attachment to a group of age-mates. The recent WaPo article on DJ and MB's friendship contained an anecdote I found very revealing. A friend of DJ's came to his home and introduced MB to him. MB "brushed past" DJ without a word and went straight for the video console, and presumably began playing without any interaction with the other two guys. Finally, DJ asked his friend, "Why he don't talk?" I think the answer to that question would help us understand the "failure to communicate" between DW and MB that day.

 

[Minette]

No, we really haven't come a long way since then. Well legally it looks better but the core issues....that won't change. It will never change.

And if your ancestor died at Andersonville Prison it wasn't because the Confederates wanted to starve him to death, it was because the Confederates were starving and couldn't provide food for the prisoners (if they wanted to kill them they could have done it far more efficiently kwim?).

Things were bad, really bad in the South at that time.

Well, he did die at Andersonville, it wasn't from starvation, it was from a festering wound and no adequate medical treatment, so maybe that's a small difference, I don't know. But how can you say that 'nothing has changed?' What are these core issues?? Sonya, you live in the Atlanta area, right? How can you live here and not be so totally infused with all the different cultures that have come in? It isn't just black, here is it is Korean, Latino, Vietnamese, Indian (not Native American, that's still rare here), Pakistani, but it's all of us, meshed together. Granted, I'm in a 'bedroom community' north of Atlanta, but the minorities are rapidly becoming the majorities. Do you think for one moment the predominant Korean business community up here is in favor of crime??? My husband is a legal immigrant, he's pretty pissed about illegal immigrants getting the free ride he never got, but it isn't just black vs. white anymore. How could it be?? There are too many 'others' here now. I think that's pretty effing cool as long as everyone gets the same playing field.
So to me, that's actually the crux of it: if everyone gets the same playing field, well, let the prosperity games begin.

OK, so I've had two glasses of wine now, what is your point, actually?

 

[K_Z]

During the last week, there were two reports of Colorado motorists unintentionally shooting themselves while sitting in their cars. In both cases, they kept a round in the chamber. Deathly afraid that the boogeyman might pop up at any moment and only a quick draw would save their life.

If officer Wilson did the same, it increases the chance that that first shot was unintentional.

BBM. If OW didn't keep a round chambered while in uniform and on patrol duty, he would be a complete fool, continuously risking his own life, and greatly slowing his response time, and hampering his ability to save, protect, or defend ANY OTHER CITIZEN, IMO.

He's a professional police officer, not a civilian, on duty in a very violent, dangerous, crime and gang-ridden community. Not keeping a round chambered would be playing Russian Roulette with his own life, and other citizens' lives, too, IMO.

Ask yourself, wouldn't you want a police officer to be able to immediately protect and defend a small child, or your loved one, or innocent bystanders? That's why they have a round chambered and ready, to be immediately, instantly ready to protect and defend. And sometimes that means firing their weapon at a dangerous suspect, to stop an imminent threat. I want them well prepared and immediately ready for that scenario. That's the job they are trained and commissioned to do-- protect and defend.

 

[Linda7NJ]

MB's birthday is May 20, so he entered first grade a "young" age 6, almost a year younger than many in his class. That's not good, especially for boys who generally mature slower than girls. The pics of young MB around 10 show him noticeably overweight, i.e. a likely target for teasing. I've read descriptions of him from his family/friends as "shy" ... "Don't talk to people" ... "had few friends". Then there's the whole changed high schools 4 times thing, which imo shows a lack of attachment to a group of age-mates. The recent WaPo article on DJ and MB's friendship contained an anecdote I found very revealing. A friend of DJ's came to his home and introduced MB to him. MB "brushed past" DJ without a word and went straight for the video console, and presumably began playing without any interaction with the other two guys. Finally, DJ asked his friend, "Why he don't talk?" I think the answer to that question would help us understand the "failure to communicate" between DW and MB that day.

Odd...because that day he was certainly allegedly very chatty...

Maybe he's just rude? A few of my sons friends have done the same thing the first time walking in my house and not say a word to me. I think it's incredibly rude and call em on it. "You're going to walk in my house and not even say hello?" They always do, apologize and it never happens again.

IMO


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[Muffet]

[h=1]St. Louis County Circuit Court Judge Mulls Over Release of Possible Michael Brown Juvenile Records[/h]
“There’s no other legitimate basis to go almost two years into his past,” Gray says.
He says it’s an attempt to make the police shooting look justified.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/09...e-of-possible-michael-brown-juvenile-records/

There is no way anything in MB's record would be relevant imo IF the case didn't hinge on whether or not he assaulted and threatened ODW.

I think some of it could be relevant because THAT question is clearly the basis of ODW's defense, AND the protesters are basing their protests on an image of MB being non-threatening to ODW (including arguments that MB wouldn't have dared to come toward a firing officer).

Anything that would show MB's having a reason or propensity - drug-induced or by nature - to dare those things are important to know.

When. Needs to know how much when?
Not as clear. I would say it would be important only at trial, but at this point, subduing the motives to protest is important.

Think about how many changed their minds and did not join in because of the video.

Just another of my hunches, but I think the reason the activists are trying so hard to suppress the juvenile record is because they know they will lose even more support.

The best thing that can happen now, I believe, is for the MB vs ODW outrage to be acknowledged as another Duke LaCrosse miss-fire, and the focus be turned toward a transparent, fair, non-political analysis of this department and the bigger picture.

(Caps used only because formatting for emphasis is a pain from mobile. )

 

[i.b.nora]

The Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9b47ba-2ee2-11e4-9b98-848790384093_story.html

"Sometime in March, a buddy stopped by with a stranger.

“Wow,” Johnson said, “that’s a big dude.”

The dude, Michael Brown, was 6-foot-4, and he had brushed past Johnson with barely a hello as he headed to the video-game console and began to play.

“I asked, ‘Why he don’t speak?’ ” Johnson recalled in a 90-minute interview with The Washington Post last week — his first interview since federal authorities questioned him shortly after the shooting, his attorneys said.

“He don’t like to talk to people,” the buddy said.

“He’s in my house, he’s going to talk to me,” Johnson replied — then he engaged Brown. Johnson soon had the answer to his own question.

“His voice didn’t fit his body. He might as well have been my size,” said Johnson, who is a lean 5-foot-7.

“Everybody we came around felt a little intimidated by him,” he said. “When he opened up his mouth . . . you’d say, ‘Naw, this guy wouldn’t hurt anybody.’ When he talked, you heard the kid in his voice.”"​

 

[Gypsy Road]

"Naw, this guy wouldn't hurt anybody." - yeah right. We saw the video of him shoving the shop owner into a food display.

 

[TheDuchess]

[h=1]St. Louis County Circuit Court Judge Mulls Over Release of Possible Michael Brown Juvenile Records[/h]
“There’s no other legitimate basis to go almost two years into his past,” Gray says.
He says it’s an attempt to make the police shooting look justified.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/09...e-of-possible-michael-brown-juvenile-records/

I'm curious where he came up with the "almost 2 years prior to his death thing. It sounds like he is referencing something specifically here that has a specific date on it. That would put MB at just over the age of 16, correct?

 

[popsicle]

By "that day" you mean the day MB died? DJ said he did all the talking with OW. Did MB seem to speak during the store robbery, because I don't remember that he did? DJ initally tried to put words of surrender in MB's mouth, but I think he's backed off from that and now says MB was about to do/say this or that but the shots prevented it.

He was reportedly chatting with 2 tree cutters.

 

[BunnyHop]

The Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9b47ba-2ee2-11e4-9b98-848790384093_story.html

"Sometime in March, a buddy stopped by with a stranger.

“Wow,” Johnson said, “that’s a big dude.”

The dude, Michael Brown, was 6-foot-4, and he had brushed past Johnson with barely a hello as he headed to the video-game console and began to play.

“I asked, ‘Why he don’t speak?’ ” Johnson recalled in a 90-minute interview with The Washington Post last week — his first interview since federal authorities questioned him shortly after the shooting, his attorneys said.

“He don’t like to talk to people,” the buddy said.

“He’s in my house, he’s going to talk to me,” Johnson replied — then he engaged Brown. Johnson soon had the answer to his own question.

“His voice didn’t fit his body. He might as well have been my size,” said Johnson, who is a lean 5-foot-7.

“Everybody we came around felt a little intimidated by him,” he said. “When he opened up his mouth . . . you’d say, ‘Naw, this guy wouldn’t hurt anybody.’ When he talked, you heard the kid in his voice.”"​

what's your point? Do you believe this testimony?

 

[SStarr33]

I'm so confused now.

About what?

 

[K_Z]

Based only on my intuition, derived on no one thing, but a lot of little things (intuition as in the way we read body language - not psychic woo woo )
... I think MB might have not had a mind that was cut out for traditional academics. I see a lot of kids like that, who, unlike those who want to succeed but can't because of the disruptions or dumping down in the school or family, really have mental limits they cannot help. I think there's actually an epidemic of it, in large part due to teen pregnancy, poor prenatal and child nutrition.. And that cycle is at the heart of so many problems, but out of the scope of this thread.

As it pertains to your posts, though, (great ones, btw!) I wish we could "segregate" kids into three groups:

*academically motivated
--plus an accelerated for gifted
*trades - starting early for academic strugglers or not motivated
*disciplinary troublemakers

This is very oversimplified, but I think putting all these groups into the same basket creates a sad handicap on the first two.

I just wonder how different he might have been if MB had been able to go into a trade-focused school in his early high school years.

I agree with you about the different groups, but those days are over in public schools. "Tracking" is illegal in American public schools. (ETA- but the European and Asian systems still use vocational and college bound tracking as their norms.) Every classroom has to have a balance of over achievers, average achievers, and under achievers, males and females, and the behavior problem kids are widely distributed to many different classrooms, whenever possible.

The fantasy is a bell shaped curve for every class, at least at the elementary and middle school level. No one is allowed to achieve too fast, and the focus is making sure the average and high performing kids will perform well enough on standardized tests to mask the effects of the behavior problems and underperformers on the whole educational process. And everyone singing *advertiser censored* ba yah about the wonderful benefits of diversity, while overall academic performance declines, behavior management dominates instructional time, and instructional rigor is dismantled. IMO, behavior management problems are the single biggest obstacle to improving public education and student achievement today.

I will say one thing more, and then get back on topic. It's a complete fantasy to think that any social institution, like public education, can "fix" the problems that produce underachievement in 6-7 hours a day. It's a complete fantasy, IMO, to also think that busing kids from failing neighborhoods and failing schools will fix the root problems, either.

We simply can't "fix" the dire social problems where most the underachieving kids come from, and they go back to at the end of every school day. We can throw all the money at underperforming schools we want, but "we" can't fix the social circumstances that lead to student failure and underachievement, on a wide scale, IMO. Individual families and kids can personally work on closing the achievement gap, but society cannot fix the root problems-- poverty, crime, substance abuse, lack of parental education, lack of ambition, children who are not being parented effectively, or parented at all, etc. It's ridiculous to expect any school can fix all that in 6-7 hours a day, or even more ridiculous, for people to think that none of that should affect student performance. <stepping down off soapbox>

 

[Tawny]

About what?

Nevermind! It was removed.