MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

[Muffet]

and yet, flip side of the coin, wasn't releasing the store video with strongarm robbery a smear?

I actually don't disagree with you, we can all say whatever want and think it, but I do agree with other members that any number of journalists could and should have long since called Crump out on that inflammatory and inaccurate selection of words/soundbite. JMO

If the dead pastor whatshisface from Westboro was on their shows being interviewed they would certainly attempt to slow or challenge his rhetoric. To some, what Crump & Co. are doing amounts to the same thing. encourage hate and spout misinformation.

Yes. I've also been wondering how far things have to go before it's technically "incitement to riot?" I'm not knowledgeable about the laws.

I have seen so many lies intentionally propagated to keep the fires burning, it has made me wonder where some accountability starts to kick in.

Not necessarily from the government, but we need more public pressure, and maybe even lawsuits from the victims of the riots or roadblocks. IMO

 

[tlcya]

They are accusing officer Wilson of murder. That is their belief that is fair, why should they not be able to say that in interviews. killed, even murdered. That is being investigated and is not proven but it IS what has been put before the grand jury.

But to use the word execution, in light of evidence and witness testimony that his hands were not over his head and he was not pleading for his life as first reported, well that is simply a word meant to inflame hatred. MO very strongly felt O

 

[TaylurRose02]

Personally, I don't think it's ethical to use the word murder to describe this particular killing as a murder either. By definition, murder is unlawfully killing a person with premeditation. Until we know if MB was charging at OW or not, I don't think it's right to pronounce him as a murderer if he really was protecting himself. It does look unprofessional, IMO, to use such harsh terms to describe a case we know so little about.

 

[Oceans]

Is that really the case, though? Plenty of people are accused of murder and are found not guilty. IMO, the use of murder only indicates guilt if the person is actually convicted of murder.

It always bothers me if there is a suspect, if there is an ongoing investigation and the media which includes lawyers, prosecutors ect. and they are doing it. They know the difference.

JMO.

 

[CHERIE.T]

They are accusing officer Wilson of murder. That is their belief that is fair, why should they not be able to say that in interviews. killed, even murdered. That is being investigated and is not proven but it IS what has been put before the grand jury.

But to use the word execution, in light of evidence and witness testimony that his hands were not over his head and he was not pleading for his life as first reported, well that is simply a word meant to inflame hatred. MO very strongly felt O

Thank you very much.

 

[TheDuchess]

I am paraphrasing here...but want to know I am stealing this thought from "elsewhere" but it really stuck with me.

How prejudicial is it for the Attorney General of the United States of America to declare an investigation of the ENTIRE police force of Ferguson, which will extend to St. Louis, while a Grand Jury is still looking at the case in front of it. I mean, seriously. We have all of this coming down with the full force of the leader of the entire justice department literally based on ONE INCIDENT that is currently being investigated. While looking more and more like there will not be an indictment, and certainly not a conviction of OW, how is this even appropriate in our country??? How can this look to anyone as anything more than inflammatory, prejudicial, threatening, retaliatory and reactionary?

All in the name of racial injustice - while not even ONE of my fellow websleuthers can provide ONE specific shred of evidence that OW shot MB because of the color of his skin.

And we wonder why racism still exists. Create and fuel an "us vs. them" environment and you will get what you ask for, unfortunately. It's like begging people to take sides. And I see this as the mother of a multi-cultural family!!! It truly scares me for my children's future.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Freedom of speech?

It's inaccurate and inflammatory...IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Muffet]

Freedom of speech?

Our right to freedom of speech only prohibits the government from silencing us on most, not all things.

It does not give us the right to set up a soapbox wherever we want to say whatever we want.

People are publicly lambasted by the public and the media, and often get fired for saying things that are politically incorrect or even disagreeable to some people's feelings.

The problem comes when some people or groups are immune from such accountability.

The world would be a better place if we all kept an even hand and used our heads and ears more than emotions and tongues. IMO

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

At common law, murder was defined as killing another human being with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought is a legal term of art, that encompasses the following types of murder:

"Intent-to-kill murder"
"Grievous-bodily-harm murder" - Killing someone in an attack intended to cause them grievous bodiliy harm. For example, if a person fatally stabbed someone, even if she only intended to wound her victim, she could still be executed.
"Felony-murder" - Killing someone while in the process of committing a felony. Note that at common law, there were few felonies, and all carried the death penalty. For example, at common law, robbery was a felony. So if a robber accidentally killed someone during a robbery, the robber could be executed.
"Depraved heart murder" - Killing someone in a way that demonstrates a callous disregard for the value of human life. For example, if a person intentionally fires a gun into a crowded room, and someone dies, the person could be convicted of depraved heart murder.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/murder

If everyone (everyone?) is presumed innocent before trial, should the act not be referred to as alleged rape or alleged murder or alleged robbery? "Murder," according to the above Cornell definition, carries a presumption of guilt. MOO.

 

[TaylurRose02]

I am paraphrasing here...but want to know I am stealing this thought from "elsewhere" but it really stuck with me.

How prejudicial is it for the Attorney General of the United States of America to declare an investigation of the ENTIRE police force of Ferguson, which will extend to St. Louis, while a Grand Jury is still looking at the case in front of it. I mean, seriously. We have all of this coming down with the full force of the leader of the entire justice department literally based on ONE INCIDENT that is currently being investigated. While looking more and more like there will not be an indictment, and certainly not a conviction of OW, how is this even appropriate in our country??? How can this look to anyone as anything more than inflammatory, prejudicial, threatening, retaliatory and reactionary?

All in the name of racial injustice - while not even ONE of my fellow websleuthers can provide ONE specific shred of evidence that OW shot MB because of the color of his skin.

And we wonder why racism still exists. Create and fuel an "us vs. them" environment and you will get what you ask for, unfortunately. It's like begging people to take sides. And I see this as the mother of a multi-cultural family!!! It truly scares me for my children's future.

Well according to various reporting articles , the investigation into the department extends past the case at hand. It isn't one incident. There's a lot of allegations against the department that have to do with race. I'm not saying anything is set in stone proof of racism. I just know I've read a lot of statements about Ferguson police targeting African Americans. But I don't think anyone knows whether or not MB's case was racially motivated or self defense.

 

[tlcya]

Personally, I don't think it's ethical to use the word murder to describe this particular killing as a murder either. By definition, murder is unlawfully killing a person with premeditation. Until we know if MB was charging at OW or not, I don't think it's right to pronounce him as a murderer if he really was protecting himself. It does look unprofessional, IMO, to use such harsh terms to describe a case we know so little about.

I follow you. And I think based on what I know at this time, the shooting was justified so I refer to it as a shooting. But I do feel his family has every right to say they think it was murder if they do. But using terms like execution etc in attempt to keep things in an uproar and achieve what they want thru bullying tactics should be challenged.

 

[tlcya]

In a perfect world people would choose their words carefully even when having differing POVs, sort of like we do here, alleged murderer. But Brown's parents and their attorney are not bound by WS rules of decorum.

I just wish more journalists would ask the hard questions and challenge purposefully inflammatory statements and call their guests out on it.

 

[Muffet]

Interesting thoughts about the use of the word "murder." My preferred reaction would probably depend on who's using it.

If only the rest of the rhetoric could be so borderline. Most is intentionally misleading and meant to cause further division and injustice. IMO

 

[TaylurRose02]

I follow you. And I think based on what I know at this time, the shooting was justified so I refer to it as a shooting. But I do feel his family has every right to say they think it was murder if they do. But using terms like execution etc in attempt to keep things in an uproar and achieve what they want thru bullying tactics should be challenged.

I didn't think of it that way. I agree with the family comment. I think if I had been a member of his family I would probably use the word murder as well due to the severity of the shooting and the emotions felt by those who knew him outside of the person that others chose to portray him as. Justified or not, I think it would be hard to see it as anything but a murder if someone is emotionally involved. Just my opinion! Not saying he's innocent! Or guilty for that matter. Just trying to put myself in someone else's shoes.

 

[Lovejac]

In a perfect world people would choose their words carefully even when having differing POVs, sort of like we do here, alleged murderer. But Brown's parents and their attorney are not bound by WS rules of decorum.

I just wish more journalists would ask the hard questions and challenge purposefully inflammatory statements and call their guests out on it.

Or at least send them the definition of 'execution'

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

As you can all see by the amount of posts that disappeared last night that the second shift did some clean up on isle 9. There was a lot of off-topic discussion last night so let's try to keep on-topic. Good job at sleuthing, though. :cheer:

I think all of us appreciate your wicked sense of humor, Lamb!!!
:loveyou:

 

[LambChop]

I think all of us appreciate your wicked sense of humor, Lamb!!!
:loveyou:

I sometimes think I'm on "ignore". :floorlaugh:

 

[branwynbreeze]

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am paraphrasing here...but want to know I am stealing this thought from "elsewhere" but it really stuck with me.

How prejudicial is it for the Attorney General of the United States of America to declare an investigation of the ENTIRE police force of Ferguson, which will extend to St. Louis, while a Grand Jury is still looking at the case in front of it. I mean, seriously. We have all of this coming down with the full force of the leader of the entire justice department literally based on ONE INCIDENT that is currently being investigated. While looking more and more like there will not be an indictment, and certainly not a conviction of OW, how is this even appropriate in our country??? How can this look to anyone as anything more than inflammatory, prejudicial, threatening, retaliatory and reactionary?

All in the name of racial injustice - while not even ONE of my fellow websleuthers can provide ONE specific shred of evidence that OW shot MB because of the color of his skin.

And we wonder why racism still exists. Create and fuel an "us vs. them" environment and you will get what you ask for, unfortunately. It's like begging people to take sides. And I see this as the mother of a multi-cultural family!!! It truly scares me for my children's future.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I follow you. And I think based on what I know at this time, the shooting was justified so I refer to it as a shooting. But I do feel his family has every right to say they think it was murder if they do. But using terms like execution etc in attempt to keep things in an uproar and achieve what they want thru bullying tactics should be challenged.

I'm with you on the family. They can say whatever they want and they won't get any grief from me. People in grief often lash out, aggravated by the sheer pain of their loss, of trying to make sense of their upended lives. If I was judged as a person for some of the emotions I felt, or things I said in the midst of grief...Oy. Even so, some of their statements, at least their public ones, have been rather measured. And they are doing this with cameras in their faces. Yes, you can say they choose to speak to the cameras, but we all know in a high profile case the media hounds the family of the deceased and often doesn't take no for an answer either. They didn't ask to be the subjects of so much media attention - I'm sure if they had their choice, they'd have Michael and their anonymity back and it wouldn't even be a close call.

That's not to say I think the family's decision to link up with the likes of Crump and Parks was healthy or wise.

We should expect more though from our community leaders, politicians, elected officials, etc.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I sometimes think I'm on "ignore". :floorlaugh:

I'm ignoring you. Only because when you deleted my earlier post, you also deleted my little drummer. I just found him today, and I kind of liked him. So....:drumroll: he's back!

(Just kidding, btw. About the ignoring you part. Not the drummer. I really do think he's cute.)