MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

[reedus23]

If one of the people in the group was a political activist, and the stories went against the Police version, then yes, I would be suspicious.There are white 'anarchists' that pull chit like that all the time.

Katy, I know we come from differing starting points but help me understand this. I get the political activist portion, whether I agree or not, I get it. Why would you be suspicious simply because a given version went against the Police version. I am sure I am missing something and thus I am asking because that, as my brain reads it, makes it sound like the police can never be wrong.

 

[reedus23]

Exactly! Especially as he is supposedly a lawyer and should know the difference! He should not use the word "murdered" either. As those words indicate guilt.

Instead, he should be more professional by using a neutral term like "killed" or "shot" which does not indicate guilt but just describes the incident.

JMO

Not only are the media allowing him to use that word but I bet a Judge will let him in closing arguments if it ever went to trial. So while some might not agree with it, some might think it is inflammatory, it doesn't mean he can't say it.

 

[reedus23]

It always bothers me if there is a suspect, if there is an ongoing investigation and the media which includes lawyers, prosecutors ect. and they are doing it. They know the difference.

JMO.

I presume you take as much issue with good Mr. Johnson throwing MB's name out there as connected to a murder as well then?

 

[reedus23]

I am paraphrasing here...but want to know I am stealing this thought from "elsewhere" but it really stuck with me.

How prejudicial is it for the Attorney General of the United States of America to declare an investigation of the ENTIRE police force of Ferguson, which will extend to St. Louis, while a Grand Jury is still looking at the case in front of it. I mean, seriously. We have all of this coming down with the full force of the leader of the entire justice department literally based on ONE INCIDENT that is currently being investigated. While looking more and more like there will not be an indictment, and certainly not a conviction of OW, how is this even appropriate in our country??? How can this look to anyone as anything more than inflammatory, prejudicial, threatening, retaliatory and reactionary?

All in the name of racial injustice - while not even ONE of my fellow websleuthers can provide ONE specific shred of evidence that OW shot MB because of the color of his skin.

And we wonder why racism still exists. Create and fuel an "us vs. them" environment and you will get what you ask for, unfortunately. It's like begging people to take sides. And I see this as the mother of a multi-cultural family!!! It truly scares me for my children's future.

To your list I will only add...and much needed and much overdue.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I know right?
I hate not being "in the loop"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know! lol

 

[Oceans]

Not only are the media allowing him to use that word but I bet a Judge will let him in closing arguments if it ever went to trial. So while some might not agree with it, some might think it is inflammatory, it doesn't mean he can't say it.

I remember a case where the lawyer of a suspect actually took on the media and threatened with law suits -libel and/or slander if they would not change their tune. And the media did change their tunes! I don't know if this will happen in this case.

 

[katydid23]

Katy, I know we come from differing starting points but help me understand this. I get the political activist portion, whether I agree or not, I get it. Why would you be suspicious simply because a given version went against the Police version. I am sure I am missing something and thus I am asking because that, as my brain reads it, makes it sound like the police can never be wrong.

That was 'shorthand' for the officers version, which includes the forensics, and their corroborating witnesses. In the MB case. the police version is going to be, in my opinion, corroborated by things like MB's prints on the gun, injuries to the officers face, AND eye witnesses who saw the struggle, up close. Thus the term 'officers version' includes forensics and eye witnesses.

So because a few people, who huddled together AFTER the incident, and took video AFTER the shooting was well over, then come forward to tell their story, it does not mean they are credible.

I don't always automatically take an officers word as gospel. They have been known to lie and to cover and deflect. But it is not a racial thing, imo.
Your hypothetical seemed to be implying that we were discounting these witnesses on a racial bias. jmo

 

[human]

Our right to freedom of speech only prohibits the government from silencing us on most, not all things.

It does not give us the right to set up a soapbox wherever we want to say whatever we want.

People are publicly lambasted by the public and the media, and often get fired for saying things that are politically incorrect or even disagreeable to some people's feelings.

The problem comes when some people or groups are immune from such accountability.

The world would be a better place if we all kept an even hand and used our heads and ears more than emotions and tongues. IMO

I love London where they have the Speakers Corner where people give all kinds of speeches.

 

[Oceans]

I presume you take as much issue with good Mr. Johnson throwing MB's name out there as connected to a murder as well then?

No, I don't because he does not state it as a fact. He makes it clear that he got some info from some 'police sources' but to find out about the TRUTH he filed the lawsuit. JMO.

 

[jmcgladr]

OT, but just read on a FB post that Justin Ross Harris was indicted for malice murder of Cooper Harris. Also felony murder and cruelty to children. Thank goodness!

 

[CHERIE.T]

we have an excellent thread for Cooper.

 

[jmcgladr]

we have an excellent thread for Cooper.

I know, I used to post there quite a bit when it was first in the news. It had kind of fizzled out after a while, but I bet it's hopping now! I plan to check it again, just thought I'd post here for anyone that hadn't heard the news! Such good news, justice for Cooper!

 

[K_Z]

I am paraphrasing here...but want to know I am stealing this thought from "elsewhere" but it really stuck with me.

How prejudicial is it for the Attorney General of the United States of America to declare an investigation of the ENTIRE police force of Ferguson, which will extend to St. Louis, while a Grand Jury is still looking at the case in front of it. I mean, seriously. We have all of this coming down with the full force of the leader of the entire justice department literally based on ONE INCIDENT that is currently being investigated. While looking more and more like there will not be an indictment, and certainly not a conviction of OW, how is this even appropriate in our country??? How can this look to anyone as anything more than inflammatory, prejudicial, threatening, retaliatory and reactionary?

All in the name of racial injustice - while not even ONE of my fellow websleuthers can provide ONE specific shred of evidence that OW shot MB because of the color of his skin.

And we wonder why racism still exists. Create and fuel an "us vs. them" environment and you will get what you ask for, unfortunately. It's like begging people to take sides. And I see this as the mother of a multi-cultural family!!! It truly scares me for my children's future.

Wanted to respond to the BBM part of this first, even though it's out of sequence with the flow-- and this is my one off topic post on this.

I'm also a mom of a multicultural family, and I agree that it's not just the black community who experiences racism (although sometimes I think their activist leaders encourage all blacks to think they are the ONLY ones.) One of our kids is adopted internationally, and I live in a middle class area, in a state that is friendly and very progressive toward international adoption. But ignorance and insensitivity still exists.

Just want to share a snippet of the things I have experienced as a mom to a child who is not the same race as I am-- it's up to the reader to determine if this is racism.

At least 6-8+ times in the past 1-2 years, while out and about in public (usually the grocery store in line to check out, lol!), I have had a stranger make small talk, then ask me, "How much did you pay for her?" "Where did you get her from?" "Does she speak/ understand English?" (She just turned 10 years old, adopted at age 7 1/2, and now completely fluent in English.) "Why didn't you adopt a kid from America?" "What happened to her real mother?" "Does she eat American food?" "Will she go back to **** when she's older?" Honest to God, I even experienced a woman say, " I heard a lot of these kids have health problems, and all kinds of trouble in school." These comments were all made by Caucasians, right in front of my daughter, who understood them perfectly (but was deeply embarrassed.) So yes, I do have some understanding of baseless prejudice and racism based only on skin color and racial features.

Thank goodness she is a resilient child and we have a very open attitude toward discussion about these hurtful comments. I'm not an adoption activist, nor is adoption a "hobby" for our family. But part of my parental job, IMO, is to prepare her for this kind of unexpected racism and insensitivity, and help her develop strategies to address it, and process it. Just as it is for ANY minority, or multicultural family, IMO. But I also understand that the prejudice we have encountered presumes that we are a "wealthy" family, "rescuing" a poor, disadvantaged child (like a stray puppy), and that we are somehow "virtuous" because we adopted her. That is a whole different kind of prejudice and racism. One that assumes she is perpetually in the role of victim and disadvantaged, which is not how we ever hope for her to view herself.

On the first part of your post, I completely agree, and am INSENSED, that the AG of the US has injected his office and the DOJ into this situation DURING THE GJ PROCESS for OW. It is unethical, unprofessional, and beyond outrageous, IMO, and smacks of tremendous undue influence. IMO. And I say this as someone who TWICE voted democrat in the past 2 presidential elections. This just should not be happening in this country, my country, IMO. WTH is going on? Why are thinking people not more outraged about this?? Misguided by soundbites? Poor attention span? Too busy to pay attention to the real issues? Distracted by the minutiae of everyday life? The apathy/ inertia of the thinking community, by reasonable people, on this is astounding, IMO.

 

[teedie2]

I will have to ask the Admins about a discussion about pass charges of police misconduct with the Ferguson police department since they are not being investigated.

So, I don't know what the decision of Admins is because I haven't read past this post of yours .. But I do want to say that I'm not interested in the police as much as I am the judge. That ruling sounds crazy. Maybe it was explained somewhere .. May I never be in her court...

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wanted to respond to the BBM part of this first, even though it's out of sequence with the flow-- and this is my one off topic post on this.

I'm also a mom of a multicultural family, and I agree that it's not just the black community who experiences racism (although sometimes I think their activist leaders encourage all blacks to think they are the ONLY ones.) One of our kids is adopted internationally, and I live in a middle class area, in a state that is friendly and very progressive toward international adoption. But ignorance and insensitivity still exists.

Just want to share a snippet of the things I have experienced as a mom to a child who is not the same race as I am-- it's up to the reader to determine if this is racism.

At least 6-8+ times in the past 1-2 years, while out and about in public (usually the grocery store in line to check out, lol!), I have had a stranger make small talk, then ask me, "How much did you pay for her?" "Where did you get her from?" "Does she speak/ understand English?" (She just turned 10 years old, adopted at age 7 1/2, and now completely fluent in English.) "Why didn't you adopt a kid from America?" "What happened to her real mother?" "Does she eat American food?" "Will she go back to **** when she's older?" Honest to God, I even experienced a woman say, " I heard a lot of these kids have health problems, and all kinds of trouble in school." These comments were all made by Caucasians, right in front of my daughter, who understood them perfectly (but was deeply embarrassed.) So yes, I do have some understanding of baseless prejudice and racism based only on skin color and racial features.

Thank goodness she is a resilient child and we have a very open attitude toward discussion about these hurtful comments. I'm not an adoption activist, nor is adoption a "hobby" for our family. But part of my parental job, IMO, is to prepare her for this kind of unexpected racism and insensitivity, and help her develop strategies to address it, and process it. Just as it is for ANY minority, or multicultural family, IMO. But I also understand that the prejudice we have encountered presumes that we are a "wealthy" family, "rescuing" a poor, disadvantaged child (like a stray puppy), and that we are somehow "virtuous" because we adopted her. That is a whole different kind of prejudice and racism. One that assumes she is perpetually in the role of victim and disadvantaged, which is not how we ever hope for her to view herself.

On the first part of your post, I completely agree, and am INSENSED, that the AG of the US has injected his office and the DOJ into this situation DURING THE GJ PROCESS for OW. It is unethical, unprofessional, and beyond outrageous, IMO, and smacks of tremendous undue influence. IMO. And I say this as someone who TWICE voted democrat in the past 2 presidential elections. This just should not be happening in this country, my country, IMO. WTH is going on? Why are thinking people not more outraged about this?? Misguided by soundbites? Poor attention span? Too busy to pay attention to the real issues? Distracted by the minutiae of everyday life? The apathy/ inertia of the thinking community, by reasonable people, on this is astounding, IMO.

OT the most bizarre question I ever heard from someone about my adopted child of another race,

Insensitive twit: So, are you planning to have any real children?"

My reply, "ummm no, I love my pretend one"

Insensitive twit all huffy, " you know what I mean"

My reply~ silence and hard blinking...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Muffet]

So, I don't know what the decision of Admins is because I haven't read past this post of yours .. But I do want to say that I'm not interested in the police as much as I am the judge. That ruling sounds crazy. Maybe it was explained somewhere .. May I never be in her court...

I haven't read more than the first page of it, and will wait for the new thread to discuss it, but meanwhile, here is a link to the relevant court docs.

Judge's full ruling here:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1276905/davis-order.pdf

Plaintiff's lawyer's appeal to the ruling:
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1276893/document-2.pdf

[Edited for clarity and completion]

 

[Muffet]

[Removing this redundant post - see my post above for links to both documents]

 

[KEVINinTO]

The investigative journalist who has gone to court to get MB's juvie records unsealed has an exclusive up on his website tonight "What We Found On #MichaelBrown’s Instagram Account" ( I don't think that I can link to the site since it is not considered MSM but I am sure most on here will know how to find it).

I believe that this is new information on MB and it paints a picture in stark contrast to the "gentle giant" image pushed by the family of MB and the msm.

For example MB writes “My Hands My Ammunition” and “I’m Out Here To Claim What’s Mines,” and..."long story short #IDGAF" For those trying to figure out the hashtag the first three letters stand for " I don't give...."

His Instagram accounts shows him flashing gang signs. Overall the impression is that of a violent .

 

[Wysteria]

Based only on my intuition, derived on no one thing, but a lot of little things (intuition as in the way we read body language - not psychic woo woo )
... I think MB might have not had a mind that was cut out for traditional academics. I see a lot of kids like that, who, unlike those who want to succeed but can't because of the disruptions or dumping down in the school or family, really have mental limits they cannot help. I think there's actually an epidemic of it, in large part due to teen pregnancy, poor prenatal and child nutrition.. And that cycle is at the heart of so many problems, but out of the scope of this thread.

As it pertains to your posts, though, (great ones, btw!) I wish we could "segregate" kids into three groups:

*academically motivated
--plus an accelerated for gifted
*trades - starting early for academic strugglers or not motivated
*disciplinary troublemakers

This is very oversimplified, but I think putting all these groups into the same basket creates a sad handicap on the first two.

I just wonder how different he might have been if MB had been able to go into a trade-focused school in his early high school years.

BBM. I have wondered the same thing.

For me, your thoughts regarding the segregation of children; are really good. They are certainly a better solution than what we have in place now. My sister in law is a librarian in the public school system. Most of the things she has shared with me about her job and the way "the system" works (or rather does not work), are unbelievable, scary and very negative.

My child is all grown up now; but I would have loved to see your proposed plan in action when she was attending school. In the end; we decided to enroll her in a private Catholic school from pre-K until the end of middle school. After middle school, we left the decision up to her as to where to attend HS. She selected the public HS.

Your thoughts and ideas may be oversimplified; as I've stated above they are a good steps in the right direction. Something needs to be done.

Some of the focus has been on how to "fix" Ferguson. The proposed school integration plan for Ferguson is absurd. It's not going to work. What are they thinking?

Education at home is paramount and so very, very important. I believe that there are some/many? that do not follow nor believe in my opinion (highlighted in Ferguson for instance.)

One of these days I hope to learn how to compose a post that does not sound like I'm preaching or judgmental. It's a knack/gift that I lack.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Wanted to respond to the BBM part of this first, even though it's out of sequence with the flow-- and this is my one off topic post on this.

I'm also a mom of a multicultural family, and I agree that it's not just the black community who experiences racism (although sometimes I think their activist leaders encourage all blacks to think they are the ONLY ones.) One of our kids is adopted internationally, and I live in a middle class area, in a state that is friendly and very progressive toward international adoption. But ignorance and insensitivity still exists.

Just want to share a snippet of the things I have experienced as a mom to a child who is not the same race as I am-- it's up to the reader to determine if this is racism.

At least 6-8+ times in the past 1-2 years, while out and about in public (usually the grocery store in line to check out, lol!), I have had a stranger make small talk, then ask me, "How much did you pay for her?" "Where did you get her from?" "Does she speak/ understand English?" (She just turned 10 years old, adopted at age 7 1/2, and now completely fluent in English.) "Why didn't you adopt a kid from America?" "What happened to her real mother?" "Does she eat American food?" "Will she go back to **** when she's older?" Honest to God, I even experienced a woman say, " I heard a lot of these kids have health problems, and all kinds of trouble in school." These comments were all made by Caucasians, right in front of my daughter, who understood them perfectly (but was deeply embarrassed.) So yes, I do have some understanding of baseless prejudice and racism based only on skin color and racial features.

Thank goodness she is a resilient child and we have a very open attitude toward discussion about these hurtful comments. I'm not an adoption activist, nor is adoption a "hobby" for our family. But part of my parental job, IMO, is to prepare her for this kind of unexpected racism and insensitivity, and help her develop strategies to address it, and process it. Just as it is for ANY minority, or multicultural family, IMO. But I also understand that the prejudice we have encountered presumes that we are a "wealthy" family, "rescuing" a poor, disadvantaged child (like a stray puppy), and that we are somehow "virtuous" because we adopted her. That is a whole different kind of prejudice and racism. One that assumes she is perpetually in the role of victim and disadvantaged, which is not how we ever hope for her to view herself.

On the first part of your post, I completely agree, and am INSENSED, that the AG of the US has injected his office and the DOJ into this situation DURING THE GJ PROCESS for OW. It is unethical, unprofessional, and beyond outrageous, IMO, and smacks of tremendous undue influence. IMO. And I say this as someone who TWICE voted democrat in the past 2 presidential elections. This just should not be happening in this country, my country, IMO. WTH is going on? Why are thinking people not more outraged about this?? Misguided by soundbites? Poor attention span? Too busy to pay attention to the real issues? Distracted by the minutiae of everyday life? The apathy/ inertia of the thinking community, by reasonable people, on this is astounding, IMO.

I've heard those comments both from my white friend with black Haitian adopted sons, and my white friend with a white Russian adopted son. So for me personally, I see it as something not totally in line with racism. Is it nationalism then? Americanism? Just old-fashioned ignorance? Bad Manners? I honestly don't know.

I am the stepmom of a deaf son. I get stupid comments, maybe not as often, especially now that he's older. Still. "So, like, what's wrong with him?" What I say: "Oh, nothing is wrong with him. He's just deaf." What I feel like saying: "Ebola. He has ebola. The only reason you are even asking is because you see two HEARING aids. What do you THINK might be "wrong" with him?"

My aunts are lesbians with two teenage sons. My aunt doesn't get as many questions about her sons as her sons get questions about having gay parents. I'm not going to get into their questions but they're not all super thoughtful and intellectual, KWIM?

None of which I in ANY way want you to see as me comparing, or minimizing your experiences, I wouldn't do that. I just really think that as a society we have to start thinking of our experiences as human experiences.