MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[Amber29]

How can anyone look at any of the photos or videos of the scene and think that was anything less than completely out of control? There were people running around everywhere and not just the family. I can understand the family being hysterical, etc... and they did seem as though they were being attended to. But I saw random people getting in the faces of random police officers who were simply trying to secure the scene. I heard swearing, threats, chanting, etc...going on in all of the videos. It was MAYHEM.

I agree it was crazy. Just seeing the footage I was thinking this could've gotten seriously out of control at any minute to the point the police couldn't control it.

 

[Trident]

How can anyone look at any of the photos or videos of the scene and think that was anything less than completely out of control? There were people running around everywhere and not just the family. I can understand the family being hysterical, etc... and they did seem as though they were being attended to. But I saw random people getting in the faces of random police officers who were simply trying to secure the scene. I heard swearing, threats, chanting, etc...going on in all of the videos. It was MAYHEM.

It takes a village. . . thus saith Hilary (and I don't care about the spelling).

 

[sonjay]

Whaaat? What happened to "His family tried to get him to play football. Brown was too timid for the sport, Ewing said."

Yeah. Double-whaaat????? Is there nothing that hasn't been lied about in this case? He was a Gentle Giant who was too timid to play football.... Or he was a strong-arm robber who played offensive tackle.

Actually, I remember now being very surprised when the news came out about his size. For the first several days, if I recall correctly, he was simply "unarmed black teenager Michael Brown." After his size was reported, he became the Gentle Giant. Does anybody know or remember when the Gentle Giant description started being used?

 

[Frydaddy]

Go without a car, yes. But go without a driver's license at all? I imagine even horrible Normandy HS was required to offer driver's ed, and MB had family in the area with jobs and presumably cars he could use if necessary.

Perhaps, but some teens don't realize the importance and responsibility that comes with rite of passage docs like DL and diplomas. He lived with grandma, she may not have had a car. Perhaps he missed the test or didn't pass. I knew kids in a predominantly white HS who didn't have a license for many of the reasons mentioned. Even transported a few in my day.

 

[Klood-N]

No hard evidence at this point that I've heard of. MB's buddy DJ said that MB was hit at the car and that he (DJ) saw blood on MB at the car. But DJ hasn't proven himself to be a very reliable witness. There are also reports in the MSM attributed to unnamed sources that say that MB was hit by that first round. But we (the general public) haven't seen any records of the police investigation revealing blood or DNA in the car or any other hard evidence either way that MB was hit at the car.

If I understand the Baden autopsy report correctly, there was no stippling on the skin around any of the bullet wounds, which would indicate that none of them was fired from closer than about 1 or 2 feet. So there appears to be some evidence that MB was not hit by that round.

If only one shot was fired in the car, and if the stray bullet that was plucked from the building is from the round that was fired from within the car, I have my doubts that MB was hit by that round at the car. I doubt it could go that far after hitting MB. I've also seen reports attributed to unnamed sources that MB was injured at the car by the gun's slide, which is possible, IMO. I have a friend who had her thumbnail torn off by the slide when she wasn't holding the gun quite right. The slide is blown back with a whole lot of force. So even MB's blood is in the car that isn't necessarily proof that he was hit by a bullet in the car.

I'm not sure it really matters either way. The gunshot apparently resulted in MB breaking off the assault in the car and fleeing, thus saving OW from further assault in the car.

One scenario I've considered: the hand wound could be from a grazing bullet that could've grazed his forearm and perhaps his chest as well. Michael's right hand could have wrapped around the muzzle while he struggled with Darren for it.

These comments by the family attorney make me wonder.

D. PARKS: Let me explain to you a few things. Number one, you`re going to notice that there`s an injury to his hand. That particular injury probably came at a close range, you`re going to find out later. Second, when we talk about front to back -- front to back mainly...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! Let me...

D. PARKS: ... applies to two things...

GRACE: ... let me hear what you`re saying. You`re saying that the gunshot wound to his right hand is at close range, although the autopsy is saying no shots at close range.

D. PARKS: Well, let me explain it like this. It`s a big gash.

GRACE: What?

D. PARKS: It`s a big gash, so as you hear more about it, it`s a big gash on his hand.

GRACE: So it`s not -- are you telling me it`s not a gunshot?

D. PARKS: Now, how that`s -- no, it is a gunshot wound caused by the gun, but a bullet, but it`s a rather large gash in his hand.

GRACE: Well, why do you say it`s at close range?

D. PARKS: Secondly -- well, it`s pretty big and it`s pretty open.

GRACE: That doesn`t mean close range.

D. PARKS: Now, how and when it happened, I`ll leave that to the experts.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/18/ng.01.html

 

[Frydaddy]

Yeah. Double-whaaat????? Is there nothing that hasn't been lied about in this case? He was a Gentle Giant who was too timid to play football.... Or he was a strong-arm robber who played offensive tackle.

Actually, I remember now being very surprised when the news came out about his size. For the first several days, if I recall correctly, he was simply "unarmed black teenager Michael Brown." After his size was reported, he became the Gentle Giant. Does anybody know or remember when the Gentle Giant description started being used?

I speculated a few threads ago that he likely had issues with authority. Given his tactics with store owner and cop, any coach was just someone else trying to get Mike to observe the rules, in my opinion.

 

[Frydaddy]

Several witness accounts have the first gunshot happening during the altercation at the SUV. Is there evidence that this shot hit Michael Brown?

Can you name the several and include their statements?

 

[Klood-N]

How can anyone look at any of the photos or videos of the scene and think that was anything less than completely out of control? There were people running around everywhere and not just the family. I can understand the family being hysterical, etc... and they did seem as though they were being attended to. But I saw random people getting in the faces of random police officers who were simply trying to secure the scene. I heard swearing, threats, chanting, etc...going on in all of the videos. It was MAYHEM.

One video I saw showed the crowd swarming around police cars, advancing as it was getting dark. Initially they were yelling raising Black Power fists, but it seemed like someone in the crowd quickly got them to switch to "Hands Up". Mayhem is right.

 

[TheDuchess]

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/Tobacco/ucm320147.htm

Ferguson Mart/Liquor was cited earlier for failing to check ID for someone buying tobacco products, which in MO includes anyone under 27. So neither DJ or MB could legally buy cigarillos without ID, and iirc neither had a driver's license at the time, so what did they usually use for ID?

"A retailer MUST check a photographic identification that includes a date of birth for any person under the age of 27 who attempts to purchase cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, and/or smokeless tobacco. Failure to do so violates 21 C.F.R. § 1140.14(b)(1). "

Well...they could have legally purchased the cigarillos with a valid ID showing they are at least 18 years of age. We know that DJ sometimes carried his ID in his sock. I really don't think the lack of ID or their age was the determining factor in the decision to steal the cigarillos, but rather the lack of $49.00. JMO.

 

[Oceans]

Looks like MB's parents are planning a new presser to ask why OW has not been arrested yet. [ just saw it on CNN]

That would be a good opportunity to ask MB's parents a few questions back. Kind of a reality check. JMO

 

[sonjay]

After his size was reported, he became the Gentle Giant. Does anybody know or remember when the Gentle Giant description started being used?

Replying to myself: The earliest reference I can find to "Gentle Giant" is Aug. 15. Coincidentally, that was also the day the strong-arm robbery video was released, when everybody saw for themselves how big he was. I do find one article that references his size from Aug. 11.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/11/michael-brown-police-shot-teen/13895981/
"Fuller, who lives in an apartment complex behind Brown's grandmother where the teen was killed Saturday, thinks the officer who shot Brown may have been intimated by him because of the teen's size."

But the reporter either did not ask the natural follow-up question "How big was he?" Or if the reporter did ask that question, he chose not to include the information in the article.

 

[Footwarrior]

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/Tobacco/ucm320147.htm

Ferguson Mart/Liquor was cited earlier for failing to check ID for someone buying tobacco products, which in MO includes anyone under 27. So neither DJ or MB could legally buy cigarillos without ID, and iirc neither had a driver's license at the time, so what did they usually use for ID?

"A retailer MUST check a photographic identification that includes a date of birth for any person under the age of 27 who attempts to purchase cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, and/or smokeless tobacco. Failure to do so violates 21 C.F.R. § 1140.14(b)(1). "

States issued ID cards are available for those that do not drive. The expired license Michael Brown had in his possession was not valid for driving, but it did in fact prove he was of legal age to buy tobacco products.

 

[Klood-N]

Whaaat? What happened to "His family tried to get him to play football. Brown was too timid for the sport, Ewing said."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...4d65e6-2257-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html

And now he's going to be remembered on the football field this weekend? Well, ain't that special.

Good point! Apparently he did play.

As a freshman, he was in Junior ROTC. His sophomore year he played football. During his junior year, he attended McCluer High School in the neighboring Ferguson-Florissant district before returning his senior year to Normandy. There, he spent time in a credit recovery program so he could graduate in May.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_cbafa12e-7305-5fd7-8e0e-3139f472d130.html

 

[Apollo]

Yeah. Double-whaaat????? Is there nothing that hasn't been lied about in this case? He was a Gentle Giant who was too timid to play football.... Or he was a strong-arm robber who played offensive tackle.

Actually, I remember now being very surprised when the news came out about his size. For the first several days, if I recall correctly, he was simply "unarmed black teenager Michael Brown." After his size was reported, he became the Gentle Giant. Does anybody know or remember when the Gentle Giant description started being used?

That came from his family when they were first interviewed. You know, the interview where they stated he was excited to be going to college for heating and air conditioning repair. That was before the story of going to college to study music. I'm waiting for the possible story that he was going to focus on the violin as his major area of study but that story has yet to be told. It will probably come out after the chaos on the highway tomorrow as a nice insight into his timid demeanor.

 

[DebinGA]

Actually, I remember now being very surprised when the news came out about his size. For the first several days, if I recall correctly, he was simply "unarmed black teenager Michael Brown." After his size was reported, he became the Gentle Giant. Does anybody know or remember when the Gentle Giant description started being used?

Within two days of his death ....

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_cbafa12e-7305-5fd7-8e0e-3139f472d130.html

 

[Trident]

States issued ID cards are available for those that do not drive. The expired license Michael Brown had in his possession was not valid for driving, but it did in fact prove he was of legal age to buy tobacco products.

Not if it was expired. Been there, done that.

 

[Apollo]

delete---double post

 

[Klood-N]

Replying to myself: The earliest reference I can find to "Gentle Giant" is Aug. 15. Coincidentally, that was also the day the strong-arm robbery video was released, when everybody saw for themselves how big he was. I do find one article that references his size from Aug. 11.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/11/michael-brown-police-shot-teen/13895981/
"Fuller, who lives in an apartment complex behind Brown's grandmother where the teen was killed Saturday, thinks the officer who shot Brown may have been intimated by him because of the teen's size."

But the reporter either did not ask the natural follow-up question "How big was he?" Or if the reporter did ask that question, he chose not to include the information in the article.

Excellent point about that phrase.

On the bold, we know Michael did that on purpose. I'm doubting the timid storyline.

Mr. Brown tended to use his size to scare away potential trouble, Mr. Lewis said. “He’ll swell up like, ‘I’m mad,’ and you’ll back off,” he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...eeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html?_r=1

 

[sonjay]

One scenario I've considered: the hand wound could be from a grazing bullet that could've grazed his forearm and perhaps his chest as well. Michael's right hand could have wrapped around the muzzle while he struggled with Darren for it.

Yes, possibly a grazing wound. Or an injury from the slide. With Parks describing it as a "big gash," it was definitely not a straight-in entry wound. If that wound was received during the assault at the car, that is.

"GRACE: So it`s not -- are you telling me it`s not a gunshot?

D. PARKS: Now, how that`s -- no, it is a gunshot wound caused by the gun, but a bullet, but it`s a rather large gash in his hand."
​

"It was a gunshot wound caused by the gun, but a bullet." What does that even mean? It's difficult to parse what Parks meant there. I don't know if he unintentionally failed to convey what he really meant, or if it was deliberate obfuscation. All I can tell is that, according to Parks, the wound on the hand was either a wound caused by the gun, or a gunshot wound caused by a bullet. If it was caused by the gun, it had to have happened during the assault in the car. If it was caused by a bullet, then it had to be a grazing wound to cause a "big gash."

Hmmm..... I wonder if an up-close grazing wound, where the bullet grazes the skin at a very oblique angle, causes the same stippling on the skin that a regular up-close gunshot wound causes? If it doesn't, then that could have been an up-close shot in the car, and there would be no stippling. Any experts on stippling here?

 

[Ladylub]

Go without a car, yes. But go without a driver's license at all? I imagine even horrible Normandy HS was required to offer driver's ed, and MB had family in the area with jobs and presumably cars he could use if necessary.

Im in my early 30s I do not have a drivers license. I should get one now though I dread it. (Texas drivers are nuts.) Reason I do not have one growing up I lived in New Orleans we had buses we could take everywhere we wanted to go. Even after we moved to an area without many bus routes it was still not necessary to have a license. Within walking distance I had my job, 2 grocery stores, restaurants, drug store, mall, and movies. With the bus I could have gotten to Walmart, k mart,a park, 2 other malls, more restaurants. The only reason I'm thinking of getting a drivers license now is b/c my kids are older and wanting to get into more things and I've never seen a bus since living out here.