MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[katydid23]

I went to a BBQ at my 22 yr old daughters in Venice Beach on Sunday. There were lots of young peeps there that I assumed would be very sympathetic to MB and Ferguson protestors. I kind of wanted to ask.

Then later, 2 cops poked their heads over the backyard fence, asking about a car that was illegally parked out front. A black male about 25 went to move his car and was apologizing to the cops. I watched over the fence. His car was not searched, they did not even ask him for any ID or anything.

When he came back in his friends joked with him about it--surprised he wasnt calling from jail etc. Then one friend said "Youre lucky this aint Ferguson, brother" and they all laughed. So did I. lol

But later on, I asked him and a couple of his friends, what they thought of Ferguson and of the MB shooting. I was shocked to hear their answer. These are 23 to 25 yr old black and hispanic young men from Venice. Tattoos and ball caps, they surprised me with their reply. " Aww, he was a , he messed up man. Not the cop's fault. I'd a shot him too, dude. "

So even these guys have figured it out. I was expecting to hear how corrupt and violent the cops were. Their answers really surprised me. Pleasantly so.

 

[al66pine]

Truthy
re your post saying you did not see a big scary crowd. Where are the images of that?


I see someone already responded w link to pix. Here is evd of witness' oral stmt re danger in crowd the day of shooting.
http://fox2now.com/2014/09/08/medica...d-for-4-hours/ date ~Sept 8. Linked interview is ~5min vid.
Sorry I don't have exact words of livery service driver & I've found no transcript.
Here is gist & context of part of interview answering your question.

He (Whitaker?) is licensed funeral director & his wife, also funeral director, were called to transport body to morgue,
so drove to scene to do that.
Reporter/interviewer asked him to explain why MB's body remained in place so long.
He said, on their arrival, an LEO came to talk to him still in his vehicle (IIRC about ~2:00pm).

LEO advised him
---Shots had been fired (IDK if this happened within crowd or 'in the area.')
---LE did not have bullet-proof vests for him & wife, and
---could not yet assure safety for him & wife to do job, there inside the crime tape boundaries,
they should just stay in vehicle til further notice.
When his wife asked whether it w/be okay for them to leave & return later, driver said - nowhere to go, pinned in by crowds.
So transport service couple stayed in vehicle. Stayed there ~2 hrs, before LE allowed them to retreive body.

Imo, sounds scary to me.

Anyone? If I've misstated something above, pls correct me. Thx in adv

 

[katydid23]

We are not prohibited from showing sentence examples of similar crimes. But it is kind of a moot point. There will be no sentencing for the robbery.

 

[Footwarrior]

What does the professional football player's case have to do with MB??

At least one poster has claimed that MB would get 5-15 years in jail for stealing the cigars and shoving the store clerk. The football player committed a much more serious assault and was sentenced to diversion. So why should we take any stock in the 5-15 year claim?

 

[katydid23]

At least one poster has claimed that MB would get 5-15 years in jail for stealing the cigars and shoving the store clerk. The football player committed a much more serious assault and was sentenced to diversion. So why should we take any stock in the 5-15 year claim?

Domestic violence cases are treated differently than robberies.

The football player was in an elevator with his fiance, after they both drank heavily, they argued, she punched him, then he punched her back. I think diversion treatment plan was a good choice.

I am not sure what MB would be sentenced to, but it depends upon what exactly his previous arrests were like. Judges take those into account. But he stole merchandise, intended for drug use, and the judge would know that, and roughed up an old man.

But that is kind of a moot point now, imo.

 

[katydid23]

Here is an example of a strong armed robbery in Missourri: [ to compare to MB's robbery]

Scott A. Masters, 41, has been charged with felony second-degree robbery after employees at a Country Mart in this town 70 miles south of St. Louis said he slipped a 52-cent doughnut into his sweat shirt without paying last December, then pushed away a clerk who tried to stop him as he fled the store.

The push is being treated as minor assault, which transforms a misdemeanor shoplifting charge to a strong-armed robbery with a potential prison term of five to 15 years. Given Masters' criminal past, prosecutors could boost that sentence to 30 years to life.

"Strong-arm robbery? Over a doughnut? That's impossible," Masters told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch from jail. He admitted that he took the pastry but denying touching the female employee. "I've never had a violent crime in my life. And there's no way I would've pushed a woman over a doughnut."

Farmington Police Chief Rick Baker said state law treats the shoplifting and assault as forcibly stealing property. The amount of force and value of the property doesn't matter.

"It's not the doughnut," Baker said. "It's the assault."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/1...ar-prison-term-for-stealing-52-cent-doughnut/

 

[katydid23]

Looks like MB's parents are planning a new presser to ask why OW has not been arrested yet. [ just saw it on CNN]

 

[Dana]

Looks like MB's parents are planning a new presser to ask why OW has not been arrested yet. [ just saw it on CNN]

Looks like they're interested in justice but not interested in justice. Makes no sense to me.

 

[DebinGA]

A Browns' feel-our-pain presser today makes sense if tomorrow's highway stoppage event is woefully shy of willing "blockers".

 

[dandy]

Looks like MB's parents are planning a new presser to ask why OW has not been arrested yet. [ just saw it on CNN]

i hope a reporter will ask them if their atty has explained the legal process . . . the parents should know the answer. apparently their atty is not doing his job

there's lots of stuff that could be done now to inform/educate ferguson residents - starting with - yes, it was mb in the video and here's the charges he'd be facing.

imo

 

[Lovejac]

And can you possibly find a more reasonable, level headed, genuine, caring man to tell this story? I dare anyone to find fault with this man. I don't want to hear another word about the body being left out in the open. Loved what he said about his heart going out to all of the families and how he cares for the dead as well as the living. :loveyou:

BBM

Then whatever you do, DON'T go on twitter :scared:

 

[Lovejac]

From reading this thread, I have learned:

Michael Brown stole $50 worth of cigars and shoved a storekeeper. If he was still alive, he was definitely going to jail.

Micheal Brown slugged a police officer in the face causing injury. The officer has no real choice but to kill Michael Brown even if he tries to surrender.

Meanwhile in today's news, we are reminded of a case where a football player slugged his girlfriend, knocking her out with a single blow. A Grand Jury reviews the evidence, an indictment for third degree assault is issued, the player is sent to a diversion program. His record will be expunged if he follows the program and stays out of trouble for a year.

Comparing this last crime to what Michael Brown is alleged to have done, the idea that Brown had to die doesn't really make sense.

Thankfully Ray Rice didn't try to steal a police officers loaded weapon.

 

[Lovejac]

I'm white! I'm female! If I get a ticket, I hired an atty to take care of it regardless of the $$$$ 'cause I know of repercussions! Dayum! Is the peanut gallery that dumb?! Sorry, but WTH?! I would NEVER drive knowing there was a warrant out for me especially due to my inability to pay for my own issue/a ticket!

Man, American is full of such disgraces IMHO

And then those disgraces are excused by many.

 

[Lovejac]

What does the professional football player's case have to do with MB??

Well, he's a black man.

<modsnip> :thinking:

But other than that, nothing

 

[TheDuchess]

I went to a BBQ at my 22 yr old daughters in Venice Beach on Sunday. There were lots of young peeps there that I assumed would be very sympathetic to MB and Ferguson protestors. I kind of wanted to ask.

Then later, 2 cops poked their heads over the backyard fence, asking about a car that was illegally parked out front. A black male about 25 went to move his car and was apologizing to the cops. I watched over the fence. His car was not searched, they did not even ask him for any ID or anything.

When he came back in his friends joked with him about it--surprised he wasnt calling from jail etc. Then one friend said "Youre lucky this aint Ferguson, brother" and they all laughed. So did I. lol

But later on, I asked him and a couple of his friends, what they thought of Ferguson and of the MB shooting. I was shocked to hear their answer. These are 23 to 25 yr old black and hispanic young men from Venice. Tattoos and ball caps, they surprised me with their reply. " Aww, he was a , he messed up man. Not the cop's fault. I'd a shot him too, dude. "

So even these guys have figured it out. I was expecting to hear how corrupt and violent the cops were. Their answers really surprised me. Pleasantly so.

I'm a conservative woman and I cannot stand when certain women claim to speak for me. As a Christian, I hate being lumped in with the like of people like that crazy church that protests funerals. They don't speak for me. I know many Muslims that don't want the likes of ISIS speaking for them either. So I can imagine many young black men don't want Al Sharpton et al speaking for them. The instigators tend to have big mouths and the media covers them and they get a platform to spew their hatred. Sure, they may sway some people to follow their lead and the media shows us those who do. But we never get to see that the vast majority of people in this world simply go about their life just like everyone else. There is no story there. So we all get the impression sometimes that all women, all Christians, all Muslims and all blacks are the same. I am happy that I know better.

 

[Klood-N]

I ran across an article in WaPo about officers that kill in the line of duty. Lots in insight into the aftermath of such a shooting for the cop.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ice-officers/2011/12/28/gIQAIxjS2Q_story.html

I really do feel sorry for OW. He's not only struggling with the psychological repercussions of having been forced to shoot and kill a man, but he's also facing possible criminal charges and possible federal civil right charges, and he may never be able to work as a police officer again.

Wow, sonjay. What a powerful article. Thanks for bringing it. I'm glad the officers shared their pain. These parts jumped out to me.


Those who kill in the line of duty often have daunting personal and professional hurdles to overcome. They pull the trigger to protect themselves and others, then live in isolation, suspicion and personal sadness as their actions are scrutinized and investigated, often very publicly.

&#8220;I still pray for her and her family,&#8221;

D.C. Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier said no police officer wants to use deadly force. &#8220;It&#8217;s very traumatic emotionally for the officers. It&#8217;s devastating,&#8221; she said.

None of the officers who shot and killed someone in 2011 has been charged with a crime, but even when the shooting is justified, it is difficult to take a life.

The life-or-death moment when officers shoot someone is so intense that they often say they never heard the gun fire or they didn&#8217;t realize they had pulled the trigger more than once. They sometimes feel that time stood still &#8212; that a 10-second encounter seemed to last for minutes or longer.


This sounds like what Darren experienced with Michael shoving him back into the car, punching him, and going for the gun. vvv

When Neill opened his car door, Cooper attacked him... The two wrestled in and out of the car in a &#8220;life-and-death struggle,&#8221; Neill said. Neill was losing the fight and felt forced to fire his weapon to save his life.

&#8220;Everything seemed to go real slow,&#8221; Neill said. &#8220;Only by the grace of God was I able to survive.&#8221;



Officers with Hudson later reported that he said: &#8220;Don&#8217;t make me do this. Don&#8217;t make me do this.&#8221; But Hudson doesn&#8217;t remember what he said because he was so focused.


Thank God for those called to law enforcement. Darren is in my prayers.

 

[TheDuchess]

Looks like MB's parents are planning a new presser to ask why OW has not been arrested yet. [ just saw it on CNN]

When I tell my children NO several times, they will continue to ask the question in a variety of different ways. They will often go to their friends to complain and their friends will agree with them that I am being unfair. I can explain to them a million ways why my answer is no and will remain no, but that doesn't stop them from asking.

 

[sonjay]

At least one poster has claimed that MB would get 5-15 years in jail for stealing the cigars and shoving the store clerk. The football player committed a much more serious assault and was sentenced to diversion. So why should we take any stock in the 5-15 year claim?

If he had committed just the strong-arm robbery (i.e., no assault on a police officer 10 mins. later), and if his juvenile record wasn't taken into consideration, IMO he may well have been permitted to plea to something less serious. Since he had not had much time to compile an adult record, yes, he would have a "clean record" as an adult, and it's not uncommon for first offenses to be pled down significantly and to be given light or zero prison time.

But that's all beside the point, since he did in fact assault a police officer just 10 minutes later. After the initial assault, he was shot while approaching the officer. Not while surrendering; surrendering doesn't involve continuing to approach the police. Whether he was approaching quickly or slowly, he was approaching, and in light of the initial assault just seconds earlier, that had to be considered a threat by OW.

But I'm not sure why it matters what kind of sentence, if any, he would have received for the strong-arm robbery. If it can be argued that he would have been eligible for diversion, or that he would have gotten a plea deal and a light sentence, would that make his assault on OW any less serious? Would it mean that OW wasn't justified in shooting him?

 

[TheDuchess]

If he had committed just the strong-arm robbery (i.e., no assault on a police officer 10 mins. later), and if his juvenile record wasn't taken into consideration, IMO he may well have been permitted to plea to something less serious. Since he had not had much time to compile an adult record, yes, he would have a "clean record" as an adult, and it's not uncommon for first offenses to be pled down significantly and to be given light or zero prison time.

But that's all beside the point, since he did in fact assault a police officer just 10 minutes later. After the initial assault, he was shot while approaching the officer. Not while surrendering; surrendering doesn't involve continuing to approach the police. Whether he was approaching quickly or slowly, he was approaching, and in light of the initial assault just seconds earlier, that had to be considered a threat by OW.

But I'm not sure why it matters what kind of sentence, if any, he would have received for the strong-arm robbery. If it can be argued that he would have been eligible for diversion, or that he would have gotten a plea deal and a light sentence, would that make his assault on OW any less serious? Would it mean that OW wasn't justified in shooting him?[/QUOTE]

BBM - Yeah - that is about as relevant as the severity of OWs injuries.

 

[Klood-N]

For focus, I highlighted the statement in blue.

Could the sound of gunfire have been when the other incident occurred nearby at almost 1:00p when officers shot the man who was stealing and armed with a knife and urging the officers to "shoot me now"?

[video]http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/video/id-9hODhxbzomoSShNitf-aHN6yJCaVcDh5/Breaking-news-Another-shooting-in-Ferguson?nk=eea024ee8b516a037e7b2424620a3110#ooid= 9hODhxbzomoSShNitf-aHN6yJCaVcDh5[/video]

In any event, I do not believe there was fear of police officers shooting into the gathering crowd at the scene of MB. The fear the transporter and his wife felt was from the tension of the angry uncontrolled crowd and definitely not fear of LEO.

moo mho omho and all that jazz

The knife shooting was actually days later in Northern St Louis, so the gunfire near the area delaying Michael's retrieval wasn't related. There were videos online of at least one guy in the mob flashing his gun.