MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #2

[liljim]

Possible motives for not disclosing information could be anywhere from closing ranks to protect the cop to trying to preserve the integrity of the evidence should the office face a trial for whatever charges a grand jury may indict the officer on later. Imagine if FPD had announced Brown as a suspect in that robbery in the midst of an emotional powderkeg and got that wrong on top of the shooting...probably have blown things up tenfold. You also don't want to give the public the perception that because Brown was a suspect at the time of the incident that the police were justifying the cops actions - as emotionally charged people are not usually real concerned about logic in the heat of the moment.

sure, i understand that - but, it wasnt like the police made no statements, they said the incident started with an altercation over the 2 people walking in the street, do you think it was better to leave people that were emotionally charged with the impression that this happened over jaywalking? im not stating it was or was not either way, im saying it will be interesting to hear their justification for doing so.

 

[MyBelle]

Based on the severe reaction from the community, I suspect there were some eye witnesses that saw what they perceived to be a totally unjustified killing of this person.

Whether or not they really saw what they think they saw or not will probably only be known if they have to testify in a court of law. I do think this explains why the community went crazy though.

I agree. Perception becomes their reality. Eyewitnesses can see something and not realize they are subconsciously filtering it with bias. Evidently there has been tension between police and residents of that community for some time, according to Capt. Ron Johnson. I think it is indisputable fact that the officer did go to the hospital for treatment of facial injuries. If Brown hit an officer in the face, that's assault of a police officer. And he's on video assaulting the store clerk.

JMO

 

[liljim]

They usually disclose information about the reasons for an initial stop/report. It's not that uncommon for police to comment on ongoing investigations, when it benefits them. Even just looking at the recent Robin Williams press conference - they keep saying they are investigating, and then gave all those details. When police don't talk, it's usually because they have a reason. Sometimes it's a good one, sometimes it isn't. Either way, people will wonder.

exactly.

 

[reedus23]

All I know is ...law enforcement typically don't comment on "on going investigations" why should they be forced to release information piecemeal fashion in this case??? Why can't they complete their full
Investigation before making a comprehensive statement?

Trying to catch up but wanted to hit some as I am. So, apologize for being late to the show. Part of why this is being meted out piecemeal is the politics that I talked about before. There is a pissing match between Nixon (and hence the State police) and the St. Louis politicians (and hence Ferguson and St. Louis County PD). I haven't talked to them directly obviously, but I'm convinced of it having lived 43 of my 45 years here. Might have some other thoughts on this piecemeal stuff later, but wanted to give one possible explanation for it.

All just my opinion which is oftentimes wrong.

 

[popsicle]

Does anyone know why the chief is releasing sensitive information and yet he is NOT in charge of the investigation or in charge of community policing in Ferguson. Seems that Johnson was supposed to be in charge. Almost like Johnson is being dissed by the local police. They don't seem to be following any particular protocol .....

DOJ & FBI are doing a parallel investigation.

 

[liljim]

Why is it wrong to expect human beings to restrain themselves until a full investigation is completed?

People are killed by guns everyday. I don't see accusations made against LE daily that they must have something to hide because they don't inform the public daily.

I don't see riots, looting, fire starting...
It solves nothing but to inflame those that truly care about truth and justice.

But in this case, without a single shred of real evidence, people are taking to the streets and behaving like the worst kind of senseless criminals.
On the last thread, someone asked me if I didn't believe the parents in this community didn't teach their children the same as I've taught mine. My answer is no. You teach by example...what I saw ...see...and hear...is a whole lot of anger and ignorance and criminal behavior.

If people behave worse than animals, and stoop to dangerous criminal behavior ...it's kinda hard to be respected in any way shape or form or be taken seriously. By anyone.

IMO

my post certainly wasnt trying to justify rioting and looting.

but rioting and looting did take place.

and i was wondering, speculating, if some of it could have been avoided by handling things in a different way.

 

[reedus23]

I DID read that several days ago, ,maybe the same day. I wonder what the justification for DISAPPEARING that information is, who did it, and why.

I think the answer is relatively simple. They wanted to get the witnesses, particularly Johnson, locked down with a statement. See if he owned up to being part of the robbery. Had he denied it, his credibility would be destroyed even more than it already is. I think it's no coincidence that it is being released what, a day or two after his statement was taken. I have no problem with that under normal circumstances. Circumstances were anything but normal the last week and I'll just leave it at that.

All of which is my opinion which is oftentimes wrong.

 

[reedus23]

I don't know why you need to find out who has the cigars. Maybe someone picked them up & smoked um by now.

The FBI does.

All of which is my opinion which is oftentimes wrong.

 

[liljim]

Was officer aware of the robbery?

...No, he was coming off sick case...Stopped bc he was walking down t street...

i was out for a while - is this your opinion or was this stated by someone in LE?

 

[scottiemom]

I'm sure "get the effing onto the sidewalk" wasn't the first thing the officer said to them. He was trying to keep the street clear for traffic (he'd just been on a sick call, and ambulances belong in the street). The family's lawyer just spent three minutes saying the family knew Mb wasn't an innocent boy.

 

[reedus23]

Chief Thom Jackson speaking:

we had tape for awhile
had to determine if anybody else charged w/crime & determined that wouldn't be t case

re second suspect>we determined he didn't commit a crime, and wasn't complicit in the crime

Interesting. I will have to watch the video again because I could have sworn I saw MB hand Johnson something first, then grabbed some more before leaving.

 

[reedus23]

FOX 5 Atlanta ‏@FOX5Atlanta 30s
Police: "We've pretty much given you all the information."

If they did, they didn't investigate much.

 

[Leilei]

That's the officer's word against the witnesses. It's going to be up to a jury, and it absolutely should be. But, this officer shot a person who had his hands up, who didn't try to question these young men, he just shot him in the back and the front. No excuse for that, IMO. All of this for less than fifty bucks, IF the victim did commit the petty theft/strong armed robbery (which should be minor assault, IMO). Interesting that this didn't come out until a week later.

 

[katydid23]

Just watched the family's presser. WHERE IS CRUMP? :waitasec:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wow.. That's even more chutzpah than the parents saying the authorities are assassinating their son's character by showing the footage of the robbery. I think MB himself assassinated his OWN character by robbing and assaulting the store clerk.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...-family-accuses-ferguson-police-smear-n181696

This wasn't just a little minor shoplifting of a pack of gum. This was clearly violent criminal behavior, and MB looks perfectly comfortable and confident while robbing and assaulting. He has done this before, IMO- maybe this was just the first time he almost got caught. I'm sorry his mother didn't know that about her son. No mother wants to believe her child is a criminal and a bully. If the family had to release a statement at all, they should have apologized to the store chain AND the clerk on behalf of their son for his criminal behavior and assault, among other things they could have said. How about expressing regret for the loss of property, the riots, the 20+ destroyed police cars? I am just dumbfounded at the defiance and arrogance of this statement and these people. I can't even comprehend that much arrogance and defiance.

IMO, MB would still be alive if he had cooperated with the officer. I know it isn't a popular idea, but after all we've heard today, I believe MB caused his own death. That's my opinion. The officer should not be charged with any crimes, IMO. He wasn't profiling, stalking, etc. he was doing his job, in a dangerous and violent environment.

However, the POTUS, nor anyone in the administration, should NOT comment any further on this situation, and should definitely NOT go to Missouri. OMG, what a cluster. I absolutely cannot believe that anyone there would think the POTUS should make a visit. That is simply outrageous, on a number of levels. This ranks right up there on the outrage meter with the woman who left her 6 months old and 2 yo to bake in a hot car, then got $114K in donations based on her crocodile tears in her mugshot! What is happening in America???

What do they expect the POTUS to say, "if I had a son, he'd look like Michael Brown?" SMH.

And BTW, it is FAR from settled that MB was "surrendering" during this incident. I wish people would stop quoting that as if it was established truth.

That post deserves a standing ovation!!!!

 

[Hatfield]

Did they later retract this?

It began with an altercation involving two men and the officer around noon Saturday, Belmar said. One of the men pushed the officer into his patrol car, there was a scuffle inside the car over the officer's gun, and the officer fired one shot inside the cruiser.

Seconds later, outside the cruiser, he fired several more shots and 18-year-old Michael Brown lay dead.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/da...alking_in_street_not_robbery_police_chief.php

You could be right that the 1st shot was actually in the vehicle. JMO of course but it is becoming more clear to me that this seems like a case of an officer losing his temper after an initiial altercation of some sorts.

All I know is if the suspect was unarmed and running away, I just dont see how that can be a justified shooting.
Although, I have seen other incidents called justified and I was surprised at those as well. So it wont surprise me if it ends up being decided as a justified shooting.

Remember the incident in California where they were looking for a dangerous suspect, and officers shot and killed some woman paper delivery people. I am not sure how that ended up turning out and maybe there were some civil suits filed, however, I dont remember any community outrage about it. And I dont remember the officers had charges brought on them.

 

[katydid23]

That's the officer's word against the witnesses. It's going to be up to a jury, and it absolutely should be. But, this officer shot a person who had his hands up, who didn't try to question these young men, he just shot him in the back and the front. No excuse for that, IMO. All of this for less than fifty bucks, IF the victim did commit the petty theft/strong armed robbery (which should be minor assault, IMO). Interesting that this didn't come out until a week later.

Do we KNOW that for sure, that he didnt try and question them and just shot without provocation? Because I will not take Dorian Johnson's word for anything right now.

 

[al66pine]

Murder? If the police accounts were correct, and a 6'4", close to 300 hundred pound guy was beating the officer about the head, maybe the officer wasn't hitting on all cylinders mentally.

Another possible angle:
If, on a public street, in broad daylight, close to a police car, a guy was beating the officer about the head,
maybe the that guy wasn't hitting on all cylinders mentally.

 

[Simply Caustic]

That's the officer's word against the witnesses. It's going to be up to a jury, and it absolutely should be. But, this officer shot a person who had his hands up, who didn't try to question these young men, he just shot him in the back and the front. No excuse for that, IMO. All of this for less than fifty bucks, IF the victim did commit the petty theft/strong armed robbery (which should be minor assault, IMO). Interesting that this didn't come out until a week later.

Minor assault? When a 6''6 (IIRC), almost 300 lb man assaults a tiny shopkeeper, in the process of stealing $50 worth of items - that's strong-arm robbery for a reason (it's not about the brutality of the violence, but it's about using physical violence and aggression to steal things you want, without paying for.) I don't see anything minor about it, but that's JMO

 

[i.b.nora]

Here is a video of Chief Jackson's press conference on Thursday morning August 14 (before the whole thing is taken over by Missouri State Highway Patrol) which includes questions by reporters about the name of the officer involved in the shooting of Michael Brown.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/ferguson-police-chief-defends-tear-gas-318148163970

At approx: 10:50 minutes into the press conference a reporter says: (Paraphrasing) Anonymous put out a name this morning, Bryan something.
Chief: That's not the name, I haven't seen anyone else.
Reporter: Another name, Darren?
2nd Reporter: Darren Wilson.
Chief: I am not going to comment on that. (as all color goes out of his face)
Reporter: What do you think, are they just throwing names out there?
Chief: I think that's what they are doing, taking name after name after name and jus throwing them out there.