MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #7

[TexanMom]

I just don't get how Websleuths is still allowing the vilification of the victim in this case. Folks, it is quite obvious that there is a campaign from those supporting officer Wilson to justify this killing and most HERE are falling for it hook line and sinker. Yes, it is possible that it was a justified shooting, but just as possible it is going to be found that it was not. The only facts are that this boy was shot at least 6 times and died. We do not know from how far away he was shot, what position he was in when shot, where is hands were, what he was saying, what the officer was saying to him etc.. Any other "info" folks are using to attack MB (and that sure is what is happening here) is based on innuendo, rumors, propaganda and IMO flat out prejudice. Just as we are expecting the protesters to wait for the facts, we ourselves should wait for the facts before we give officer Wilson a medal for gunning down a KID.

MB was not a boy nor a kid. He was an 18 year old man who made some pretty bad decisions.

 

[Boytwnmom]

One was about juvenile records access. I had posted some info about ths earlier which I will reproduce below. But the gist of it, from the statute, is that a juvenile arrested or convicted (in juvenile ct terms, "adjudicated delinquent") of a class A felony, first or second degree murder or capital murder will pretty much automatically have their juvenile record made public. In all other cases, a court order is required. The standard for access is a "legitimate interest". I have not looked at case law to see how that standard plays out in practice.

The other question was about whether death "opens" the records otherwise sealed. In general, no, unless there is something in MO that specifically provides for that, which I haven't seen and which I doubt exists. This type of record access is purely in the hands of the state. If they wanted sealed records available after the subject's death it would be so stated. Also, in general, privacy type rights (which are similar) survive the death of the person. Rights may also reside with the immediate family to protect the rights of the decedent. So, I highly doubt that death, in and of itself, would make the records available. It may be that the circumstances of the death would create a legitimate interest in someone so that they could then obtain the records under the court order standard. And, if the underlying offenses were sufficiently serious, the records would already be available.

This is the statute:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c200-299/2110000321.htm

I will excerpt relevant parts:

Juvenile court records, confidentiality, exceptions--records of peace officers, exceptions, release of certain information to victim.

211.321. 1. Records of juvenile court proceedings as well as all information obtained and social records prepared in the discharge of official duty for the court shall not be open to inspection or their contents disclosed, except by order of the court to persons having a legitimate interest therein, unless a petition or motion to modify is sustained which charges the child with an offense which, if committed by an adult, would be a class A felony under the criminal code of Missouri, or capital murder, first degree murder, or second degree murder or except as provided in subsection 2 of this section. In addition, whenever a report is required under section 557.026, there shall also be included a complete list of certain violations of the juvenile code for which the defendant had been adjudicated a delinquent while a juvenile. This list shall be made available to the probation officer and shall be included in the presentence report. The violations to be included in the report are limited to the following: rape, sodomy, murder, kidnapping, robbery, arson, burglary or any acts involving the rendering or threat of serious bodily harm. The supreme court may promulgate rules to be followed by the juvenile courts in separating the records.

....
(2) After a child has been adjudicated delinquent pursuant to subdivision (3) of subsection 1 of section 211.031, for an offense which would be a felony if committed by an adult, the records of the dispositional hearing and proceedings related thereto shall be open to the public to the same extent that records of criminal proceedings are open to the public. However, the social summaries, investigations or updates in the nature of presentence investigations, and status reports submitted to the court by any treating agency or individual after the dispositional order is entered shall be kept confidential and shall be opened to inspection only by order of the judge of the juvenile court;

(3) As otherwise provided by statute;

(4) In all other instances, only by order of the judge of the juvenile court.

3. Peace officers' records, if any are kept, of children shall be kept separate from the records of persons seventeen years of age or over and shall not be open to inspection or their contents disclosed, except by order of the court. This subsection does not apply to children who are transferred to courts of general jurisdiction as provided by section 211.071 or to juveniles convicted under the provisions of sections 578.421 to 578.437. This subsection does not apply to the inspection or disclosure of the contents of the records of peace officers for the purpose of pursuing a civil forfeiture action pursuant to the provisions of section 195.140.

5. The court may, either on its own motion or upon application by the child or his representative, or upon application by the juvenile officer, enter an order to destroy all social histories, records, and information, other than the official court file, and may enter an order to seal the official court file, as well as all peace officers' records, at any time after the child has reached his seventeenth birthday if the court finds that it is in the best interest of the child that such action or any part thereof be taken, unless the jurisdiction of the court is continued beyond the child's seventeenth birthday, in which event such action or any part thereof may be taken by the court at any time after the closing of the child's case.

6. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the release of general information regarding the informal adjustment or formal adjudication of the disposition of a child's case to a victim or a member of the immediate family of a victim of any offense committed by the child. Such general information shall not be specific as to location and duration of treatment or detention or as to any terms of supervision.

...
(L. 1957 p. 642 § 211.310, A.L. 1969 H.B. 227, A.L. 1980 S.B. 512, A.L. 1989 H.B. 502, et al., A.L. 1993 H.B. 562, A.L. 1994 S.B. 595, A.L. 1995 H.B. 174, et al., A.L. 2004 H.B. 1453
So, court records can't be obtained, except by court order, to persons having a legitimate interest. If a child is charged with an offense which would be a class A if committed by an adult, murder in the first, second degree or capital murder, the records may be obtained. Moreover, after a child has been adjudicated delinquent for an offense which would be a felony if committed by an adult, the records are to be open to the public to the same extent that records of adult criminal proceedings are open to the public.

 

[Amber29]

It was said in the last thread that the prosecutor shouldn't be seeking a grand jury indictment if he feels no crime was committed. IMO even if he feels that way, he doesn't want to be the one to make that call. The officials are so concerned about the ramifications if "justice" isn't served. I truly hope the GJ chooses not to indict.

 

[popsicle]

Shimon Prokupecz ‏@ShimonPro 2m
From the pool report #ferguson: AG Holder has been meeting with students at Florissant Valley Community College.

 

[CoolJ]

MB was not a boy nor a kid. He was an 18 year old man who made some pretty bad decisions.

18 yrs old is a kid... When I was 18 I sure as heck was a kid and I also made same bad decisions ... Glad I wasn't gunned down for them...

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by Matt Pearce
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jelani cobb ‏@jelani9 17m
At Greater St Mark Church. Witnesses say police came to the building which was being used as aid station for protestors. #Ferguson

Retweeted by Matt Pearce​

jelani cobb ‏@jelani9 17m
Police are gone, pastor of the church said they'd surrounded the building re charge that ppl were sleeping inside. #Ferguson

Retweeted by Matt Pearce​

jelani cobb ‏@jelani9 12m
Pastor Tommie Pierson confirmed police entered church building. Unconfirmed reports that police removed materials. #Ferguson

Retweeted by Matt Pearce​

jelani cobb ‏@jelani9 11m
Church was used as center to treat people exposed to tear gas or needing med treatment. Police alleged it was used as shelter. #Ferguson

Retweeted by Matt Pearce​

jelani cobb ‏@jelani9 11m
Church says it was a safe space for organizers. Police say they violated housing policy by having ppl stay overnight. #Ferguson
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[popsicle]

18 yrs old is a kid... When I was 18 I sure as heck was a kid and I also made same bad decisions ... Glad I wasn't gunned down for them...

When I was 18 I was a Marine.

 

[Linda7NJ]

President of FOP
Sgt. Kevin Ahlbrand.
On msnbc
Now...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very calm voice of reason...urged people wait for investigation and the facts.
Usually quiet but in this case felt it necessary to speak out because Offucer Wilson has been vilified by the media and etc...before facts, due process...yada yada...


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[Yoda]

When I was 18 I was a Marine.

Thank you for your service.

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by Matt Pearce
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jelani cobb ‏@jelani9 4m
According to organizers the church held supplies for first aid, no weapons. #Ferguson
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[Linda7NJ]

18 yrs old is a kid... When I was 18 I sure as heck was a kid and I also made same bad decisions ... Glad I wasn't gunned down for them...

Punching an officer in the face and attempting to take his gun is NOT a "mistake"
IMO
Nor is strong arm robbery.


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[TheDuchess]

<modsnip>Folks, it is quite obvious that there is a campaign from those supporting officer Wilson to justify this killing <modsnip>Yes, it is possible that it was a justified shooting, but just as possible it is going to be found that it was not. The only facts are that this boy was shot at least 6 times and died. We do not know from how far away he was shot, what position he was in when shot, where is hands were, what he was saying, what the officer was saying to him etc..<modsnip> Just as we are expecting the protesters to wait for the facts, we ourselves should wait for the facts before we give officer Wilson a medal for gunning down a KID.

When I first started reading your post, I was in agreement about how so many are vilifying the "victim" in this case until I realized that we both had a different idea of who the victim actually is in this case. Now, I see it as a police officer who was attacked by a MAN (18 years old is not a boy, particularly when they stand 6'2 and weigh almost 300 lbs.) But you are right. We are rushing to judgment. But why? Because we see the bloodthirsty crowds looking to string this office up, calling him a murderer, an executioner, a racist, without having a single know fact about the case. "Hands up don't shoot???" That is nonsense that was started by DM's friend, and accomplice in the strong armed robbery. All I know is that one person is an officer of the law of this land, who has absolutely no known marks on his record, if anything, he is decorated. I do know that DM committed a strong armed robbery just before the shooting and quite likely attacked the officer and from the autopsy results, it appears as though he was charging at the office. This is a nation of laws, not mob rule. If we turned this all over to the mob rule, we would have something closer to what you see today in Iraq or Syria. Marching down the streets "protesting" and inciting mobs, leaders coming in and encouraging said mobs, etc...is shamefully irresponsible. The case IS being investigated. The legal system is "on it" and has been since the moment it happened. The office is on leave pending the investigation. But that isn't enough is it? Anyone siding with the officer, who should also be presumed innocent, is a racist and needs to shut up and let the mob drive the outcome of the story, is that what you are saying?

 

[SStarr33]

Antonio French @AntonioFrench · 6m The St. Louis County Prosecutor is endangering this community each day he delays filing charges against #DarrenWilson. Let a jury decide.

Antonio French @AntonioFrench · 3m I don't know all the facts. No one does. That's what a trial is for. That's what this community is demanding.#PeaceInFerguson requires it.

Why I have an issue with him.

That is just insanity.

 

[SStarr33]

18 yrs old is a kid... When I was 18 I sure as heck was a kid and I also made same bad decisions ... Glad I wasn't gunned down for them...

HOw many times did you assault a police officer and try to steal his gun?

 

[TheDuchess]

One other truth (as I see it of course) before getting back to my other scheduled duties for the day...

I think we can ALL agree that shooting someone who has their hands up and begging don't shoot is murder. However, it is becoming extremely clear as the facts come out that is NOT what has happened in this case.

 

[liloleme]

<modsnip>Folks, it is quite obvious that there is a campaign from those supporting officer Wilson to justify this killing <modsnip>Yes, it is possible that it was a justified shooting, but just as possible it is going to be found that it was not. The only facts are that this boy was shot at least 6 times and died. We do not know from how far away he was shot, what position he was in when shot, where is hands were, what he was saying, what the officer was saying to him etc..<modsnip> Just as we are expecting the protesters to wait for the facts, we ourselves should wait for the facts before we give officer Wilson a medal for gunning down a KID.

You forgot a few other facts:

1. MB committed robbery less than 10 minutes before.
2. MB committed assault less than 10 minutes before.
3. MB committed battery less than 10 minutes before.
4. Officer Wilson has a broken eye socket because he was hit in the face by MB.
5. MB had pot in his system.
6. A black guy, unknowingly being videotaped, corroborated Officer Wilson's story moments after the shooting happened.

Since you're in search of facts, just wanted to make sure you didn't miss these.

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by FOX2now
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Kevin Gosztola &#8207;@kgosztola 12m
At St. Marks church hearing about how police came and raided what is supposed to be "safe space" #Ferguson
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvf_j00IYAAg2vp.jpg

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Retweeted by Matt Pearce
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jelani cobb &#8207;@jelani9 11m
Organizers saying this is the 3rd time police have come here. Last night they had assault weapons. #Ferguson

It appears by the above pic that Amnesty Intl is still there.
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[TexanMom]

That is just insanity.

He doesn't know the facts, or he just wants to ignore the facts?

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

When I was 18 I was a Marine.

So your avi doggie would get along well with this doggie?

 

[Dogface]

One thing I hope that is learned from this case regardless of the outcome, is that every action and decision you make has consequence. If he wouldn't have robbed a store, would he have been so defensive to a cop? If he would have simply walked on a sidewalk, would he have been stopped at that point at all? Each and every choice you make has a result. It would be absurd to think this situation just befell MB without some active participation of his own.

"Man is not the creature of circumstances; circumstances are the creatures of men" - Benjamin Disraeli