MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #9

[CHERIE.T]

I think he was referring to MB not being moved from the street for apprx. 5 hours.

Was that actually confirmed? tia

 

[popsicle]

Nick Valencia @CNNValencia · 2h

MORE- Wilson rally organizer says money raised is not just for his defense but also his livelihood. Concerned he won't be a cop again #CNN

 

[DeDee]

This post is only my informed opinion based on case study.

As some members here have stated, I also deeply respect the role of Law Enforcement; however, I have seen military type tanks with military gunners atop the tanks being utilized in cities that provokes the feeling that Police Departments have become too militarized. JMO The gov't wants to scam us with the claim that these are "surplus" supplies. MOO I am sincerely troubled by these developments. OMO

I heard about a protestor who was "gunned down" by Fergus*n police just a few blocks from where MB was shot and killed. The protestor stole two drinks from a store and set them down on the sidewalk as if urging someone to defy his actions. When FPD arrive, the protestor is ordered to remove his hands from his pockets. The protestor is heard saying several times "Go ahead. Shoot me." OMO

I was unable to locate a video of the incident on youtube but did not give up there. The video of the protestors death is posted in this article. It is a very graphic video. Also, in the news article it states that the funds for support of OW have surpassed the funds for MB. Please know that I am not soliciting funds from anyone. I merely thought it was an interesting observation. In fact, at the link below there is no opportunity offered to donate any money to either cause. OMO

Did I already claim the article contains a very graphic video of a protestor being shot? No taser was used. The protestor disobeyed policeman's orders yet was given ample time to obey commands. The Protestor instead, walked closer and closer to the LEO. I counted ten shots. JMO

<modsnip>

 

[jdedmom]

FYI There is a NAACP youth march livestreaming now.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

 

[liloleme]

Wow, Baden is on fox tight now. Talking about how "there probably won't be significant differences Among the 3 autopsies, however the the interpretations can be different.

Said he is disappointed that MB lay in the street for so long, and states ITS NOT NORMAL TO DO THAT, and compares it to a fatality from a car crash.

From what I read, and heard, this is completely untrue.

And, if they would have swept the body up swiftly, they would have said they tainted the crime scene and they were just trying to cover up... it's a no win.

He laid there. Maggot didn't start to eat the skin. He didn't start to stink. What was the downside? I don't get it? Are they saying he was being disrespected because he was lying there? Because, that's insanity...

 

[aa9511]

thank goodness I copied before hitting submit to find a locked thread



I do agree with you about MB, his peers, his environment and learnt behaviors. I read an article last night that gave more insight into MB's life, his upbringing and the challenges he faced. I am sure they were not uncommon from the life, upbringing and challenges of his peers.

I believe that those factored greatly into the decisions he was making and it is very sad to me that his life has ended when it had barely begun. aa9511 made points about humans make mistakes, young people are at risk of falling in with bad crowds etc. (s)he also raised good points regarding those factors. It is heartbreaking that MB's mistakes may have been in part responsible for his life ending there on the street that day. But that is why parents fear their children getting in with those crowds who lead them astray and why parents lose sleep at night worrying that their child may be headed down the wrong path. Because we know our babies could end up with life changing or life ending consequences for stupid young decisions.

Thank you for sharing your perspective and personal experiences as a young man who escaped making those type of mistakes that could have such serious consequences as prison or death. And thank you for working with youth to try to help them do the same.

I love this post, thank you.

 

[liloleme]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDBOx4RSEP0&index=4&list=UU5DZCTbusDNYPeO7f-Slqow

Brown family lawyer Daryl Parks on CNN re MB having a juvenile arrest record:

"I'll just say this. He was a typical kid. Some situations may have occurred while (he was) a juvenile, but we need to not be at a point where we start to blame the victim."

ROFL! (but, not really!)

He was NOT a typical kid. And yes, we do need to "blame the victim" if it's the victim's fault. It's called "personal responsibility". It's what we're lacking in America.

 

[popsicle]

This post is only my informed opinion based on case study.

As some members here have stated, I also deeply respect the role of Law Enforcement; however, I have seen military type tanks with military gunners atop the tanks being utilized in cities that provokes the feeling that Police Departments have become too militarized. JMO The gov't wants to scam us with the claim that these are "surplus" supplies. MOO I am sincerely troubled by these developments. OMO

I heard about a protestor who was "gunned down" by Fergus*n police just a few blocks from where MB was shot and killed. The protestor stole two drinks from a store and set them down on the sidewalk as if urging someone to defy his actions. When FPD arrive, the protestor is ordered to remove his hands from his pockets. The protestor is heard saying several times "Go ahead. Shoot me." OMO

I was unable to locate a video of the incident on youtube but did not give up there. The video of the protestors death is posted in this article. It is a very graphic video. Also, in the news article it states that the funds for support of OW have surpassed the funds for MB. Please know that I am not soliciting funds from anyone. I merely thought it was an interesting observation. In fact, at the link below there is no opportunity offered to donate any money to either cause. OMO

Did I already claim the article contains a very graphic video of a protestor being shot? No taser was used. The protestor disobeyed policeman's orders yet was given ample time to obey commands. The Protestor instead, walked closer and closer to the LEO. I counted ten shots. JMO

<modsnip>

A 23-year-old male robbery suspect is dead after allegedly waving a knife at police, screaming at them to kill him and then being shot by an officer in north St. Louis, authorities said Tuesday.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/19/st-louis-officer-shooting/14295137/

This??

Not that it matters.. I posted a link yesterday that MB's funeral is being paid for.

 

[liloleme]

I do not agree with those laws so its pointless me even trying to understand. I know police need to stop shooting children, knowing some of these incidents could have been dealt with better.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here- I think that the more one disagrees with a law or position, the more critical it becomes that one understands said law or position and understands completely *why* one disagrees with said law or position so that one is able to intelligently defend ones position against said law or position.

But no, we fire and kill cause we do not care about you...

Logical fallacy: Straw man; appeal to emotion

 

[bettybaby00]

I think it might be a little unrealistic to expect DJ to be thinking logically and clearly right after his friend was gunned down in front of him. Emotions were running high, and it probably DID feel like his friend had been "shot down like a dog" in that moment. I wouldn't hold DJ's grief-stricken remarks against him.

Oh I get that honestly I do, but what I'm saying is that his, IMO over dramatized, recounting of events to a reporter, is in no way the same as having to tell LEOs what happened after being informed of what the consequences would be for lying.

parks' statements of what happened at the car have evolved to the point of an "aggressive encounter, that includes the officers gun coming out, and shots fired."

This can only mean IMO, that these statements are reflective of what Dorian OFFICIALLY told police. Yes I'm making an inference, but I think it's a logical one.

 

[aa9511]

We are all entitled to our opinions, but opinions don't make up protocol.

If someone punches you in the eye socket and busts your eye socket and fights you for your gun, you don't reach for a tazer to protect yourself. You don't have to have a protocol in place to know this. That's just common sense.

Is it a tragedy that someone got shot and died? It is.

Is it a tragedy that MB made some really bad decisions that led to his death. It REALLY is.

Is it a tragedy that Officer Wilson now has to live with using his gun to kill a suspect? It REALLY, REALLY is.

I'd like those who question Officer Wilson's action to step back for a moment and evaluate facts & options, using logic, not emotion.

1. FACT: OW got punched by MB in eye socket, blew out OW eye socket. (This is a felony.)
2. FACT: MB not only TOUCHED OW gun but he tried to get it. (Also a felony.)
3. LOGIC: If MB was trying to get OW gun, he was trying to disarm OW for the purposes of killing OW.
4. LOGIC: If MB had gotten OW gun, he would have likely killed OW.
5. FACT: OW was able to stop MB from getting his gun.
6. FACT: OW had a hold of his gun (because he had stopped MB from getting it and gun, allegedly, went off.)
7. FACT: In order for OW to use a tazer (if available), OW would have had to properly re-holster his gun (which could have required exiting the car depending on how OW gun position and body position ended up in the struggle), retrieve his tazer, and prepare it for use.
8. FACT: During the course of #7, given MB's past 15-20 seconds of behavior, it is highly likely MB would have continued his assault on OW and very likely another gun struggle would have/could have occurred.
9. FACT: OW life was in danger.
10. FACT: Given the above facts & logic, the only recourse OW had was to use his gun to stop the suspect.

If I am off here, please, feel free to counter with facts (and links) and please explain, logically (without emotion) why I am off.

Re: # 3-10

Or, couldn't it have been that before or during whatever altercation/incident/verbal/non-verbal/physical/etc. happened at the car b/w MB and OW, OW grabbed for his gun in order to threaten MB with it?

He pointed it at MB, b/c whole reason he got his gun out was to threaten MB.

MB then tried to get the gun away from being pointed and aimed directly at him.

IDK but this scenario also makes sense to me.

JMO

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by STL Public Radio
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Maria Altman &#8207;@radioaltman 4m
NAACP March #Ferguson chanting "courage will not skip this generation."

Retweeted by STL Public Radio
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Maria Altman &#8207;@radioaltman 8m
NAACP March in Ferguson. "Ain't no power like the people's power b/c the people's power votes."
​

​

 

[tlcya]

Yup young adults make stupid decisions, and sometimes those actions end up having no dire consequences, and we all grow up and live happily ever after.

Yet, many, many, many times teens or young adults make stupid mistakes--often fueled by drink and/or drugs--and the results are tragic and often deadly.

And many times, those stupid behaviors aren't driven or based on malice or deliberate ill intentions.

For example, a young group of women go out for a birthday celebration to a local club. One girl meets a cute guy and they hit it off and decide to leave together. How many young women have ended up raped and sometimes murdered b/c of that type of decision.

How many times is a young person involved in a fatal car crash b/c they were trying to text and drive? What happens when they survive the crash, but they end up killing some innocent person who had just run out to pick up a quart of milk?

What about the young college guy who is getting his morning coffee at Starbucks and an armed robber comes in, and college boy decides to try and intervene and is shot and killed for his impulsive, some would say stupid actions?

In this case, we have a young man who appears to have made both impulsive and stupid decisions, as his family's lawyer admits, "at the very beginning, at the car, there was a very serious situation between Michael and the officer, without question, in which there may have been blow -they had an altercation.

And at some point, the officer's gun may have come out and a shot's fired."

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/the-ke.../3739124713001]

Do you honestly believe that if DJ went on the record to police that OW pulled his gun with no acceptable reason, and shot MB at the car, the family's lawyers wouldn't be saying that on TV? Why are they trying to minimize it by saying "but that's not what got him killed?"

So yes, sometimes teens make stupid mistakes, and it doesn't mean they should die from them, and yet sometimes they do. MB making the stupid mistake of assaulting an officer with a strong indication that he tried going for his gun was a stupid mistake which was bound to turn deadly.


JMO

good post. I wanted to say that while we do not know that MB was purposefully trying to get to DW's gun, the admitted "serious/major" altercation at and within the car is a fact. In that circumstance we do not know what either man was thinking. So even if MB did not have intent at the beginning of the "tussle" it would not be at all unreasonable for DW to think or worry that was his intention. The release of information that there is proof that MB touched the gun will be interpretted differently by folks.

Some will believe that MB touched the gun because it was shoved in his face by a rogue racists cop who said "I am going to shoot you" on a public street before at least one witness known to him in broad daylight despite that theory defying logic and common sense IMO

Others will believe that the touching of the gun indicates the beginning of a perceived life and death struggle situation for DW. that is my belief at this time based on what info is currently available, my own life experience and plain old common sense.

I don't need to know if MB was actually trying to disarm DW. I simply need to know DW believed that was true. And common sense tells me he would have to consider his weapons being compromised in a struggle taking place within his vehicle.

 

[aa9511]

What I sincerely hope is that HLN does not follow this case if it goes to trial. I do hope there is camera in courtroom so us Websleuthers can watch, though. But please HLN leave this alone and don't make it into a mess. Please, I'm begging you.

 

[SStarr33]

Hey, it looks like that blog I contacted did a story about Shawn Parcells role in the MB case. I guess I am not allowed to link it here because it's not MSM, but it's called Pathology Blawg.

Haven't read it yet, but wanted to share.

 

[Bernina]

We are all entitled to our opinions, but opinions don't make up protocol.

If someone punches you in the eye socket and busts your eye socket and fights you for your gun, you don't reach for a tazer to protect yourself. You don't have to have a protocol in place to know this. That's just common sense.

Is it a tragedy that someone got shot and died? It is.

Is it a tragedy that MB made some really bad decisions that led to his death. It REALLY is.

Is it a tragedy that Officer Wilson now has to live with using his gun to kill a suspect? It REALLY, REALLY is.

I'd like those who question Officer Wilson's action to step back for a moment and evaluate facts & options, using logic, not emotion.

1. FACT: OW got punched by MB in eye socket, blew out OW eye socket. (This is a felony.) No, Speculation.
2. FACT: MB not only TOUCHED OW gun but he tried to get it. (Also a felony.) No, speculation.
3. LOGIC: If MB was trying to get OW gun, he was trying to disarm OW for the purposes of killing OW. Assumption.
4. LOGIC: If MB had gotten OW gun, he would have likely killed OW. Assumption.
5. FACT: OW was able to stop MB from getting his gun. Speculation.
6. FACT: OW had a hold of his gun (because he had stopped MB from getting it and gun, allegedly, went off.) Speculation.
7. FACT: In order for OW to use a tazer (if available), OW would have had to properly re-holster his gun (which could have required exiting the car depending on how OW gun position and body position ended up in the struggle), retrieve his tazer, and prepare it for use. Based on speculation #6.
8. FACT: During the course of #7, given MB's past 15-20 seconds of behavior, it is highly likely MB would have continued his assault on OW and very likely another gun struggle would have/could have occurred. Speculation/opinion.
9. FACT: OW life was in danger. Speculation.
10. FACT: Given the above facts & logic, the only recourse OW had was to use his gun to stop the suspect. This is all based on speculation, opinion, assumptions, and "what if's", NOT FACTS.

If I am off here, please, feel free to counter with facts (and links) and please explain, logically (without emotion) why I am off.

Response in RED by me.

There is only the statement by Dorian, who was a participant in the entire event, and absolutely nothing by Wilson. No one knows the state of mind of OW. No one has published OW's ER findings.
Other witnesses did not have the full vantage of the entire incident, what was said, saw/recorded only snippets, or were too far from the scene to perceive with certainty what was going on.

 

[liloleme]

Re: # 3-10

Or, couldn't it have been that before or during whatever altercation/incident/verbal/non-verbal/physical/etc. happened at the car b/w MB and OW, OW grabbed for his gun in order to threaten MB with it?

He pointed it at MB, b/c whole reason he got his gun out was to threaten MB.

MB then tried to get the gun away from being pointed and aimed directly at him.

IDK but this scenario also makes sense to me.

JMO

Or, couldn't it have been that before or during whatever altercation/incident/verbal/non-verbal/physical/etc. happened at the car b/w MB and OW, OW grabbed for his gun in order to threaten MB with it?

No, it couldn't have been. That's not what happened. That's not what the family's attorney said.

MB then tried to get the gun away from being pointed and aimed directly at him.

That did not happen. That's not what the family's attorney said. BTW, this is against the law. You cannot do that. THAT is grounds for being shot. You absolutely, positively, cannot touch an officer's gun. Ever. Or anyone else's gun for that matter. You will be shot every, single time. That is NOT a defense in court, specifically dealing with an officer. You are to comply, regardless of what you "think" (and that's another matter entirely, but whatever..).

Ok, so now that we've established that your scenario is completely false based on what the family's attorney has said, do you have any FACTS (including links, what I asked for initially) to refute what I've posted? TIA.

 

[aa9511]

good post. I wanted to say that while we do not know that MB was purposefully trying to get to DW's gun, the admitted "serious/major" altercation at and within the car is a fact. In that circumstance we do not know what either man was thinking. So even if MB did not have intent at the beginning of the "tussle" it would not be at all unreasonable for DW to think or worry that was his intention. The release of information that there is proof that MB touched the gun will be interpretted differently by folks.

Some will believe that MB touched the gun because it was shoved in his face by a rogue racists cop who said "I am going to shoot you" on a public street before at least one witness known to him in broad daylight despite that theory defying logic and common sense IMO

Others will believe that the touching of the gun indicates the beginning of a perceived life and death struggle situation for DW. that is my belief at this time based on what info is currently available, my own life experience and plain old common sense.

I don't need to know if MB was actually trying to disarm DW. I simply need to know DW believed that was true. And common sense tells me he would have to consider his weapons being compromised in a struggle taking place within his vehicle.

I really, wholly with my heart, do not believe MB would have reached inside the car and grappled with OW to get his gun. Especially as a Black man, who would have known what LE is capable of doing to him. No matter how stupid he was, I don't think he was that stupid. I'm sorry, I am just.not.buying.it at this time. It doesn't make one iota of sense to me, even for someone so stupid as people are claiming he was.

It makes a lot more sense to me that the gun was already being pointed at him by Officer Wilson. In my heard and my head, this makes a lot more sense than the above scenario.

JMO.

 

[tlcya]

What I sincerely hope is that HLN does not follow this case if it goes to trial. I do hope there is camera in courtroom so us Websleuthers can watch, though. But please HLN leave this alone and don't make it into a mess. Please, I'm begging you.

totally agree with you on this.

 

[Bernina]

I noticed that this question keeps being asked with no answer given. Could it have been because it involved an officer who was involved in a shooting death?

I have a feeling they were more concerned about the crowd that was amassing and getting OW out of the area. I can't recall an Officer involved shooting where it took more than 2-3 hours, tops, to get a TOD, measurements, pics, and crime scene techs to get what they needed before transporting the victim out of the area. If it had happened at night, it *might* seem reasonable?