MO - Kara Kopetsky, 17 - 2007; Jessica Runions, 21 - 2016; found deceased - *ARREST*

[skibaboo]

1. holy crap about the link to the nearby house.
2. they took a blue plaid shirt from his house. We don't know if it was Jessica's but she happened to disappear in one. I think they have a lot more evidence than we are aware of.

And some blood swabs, although we don't know whose blood it was

 

[jpo74]

thank you for those links Vail. so many cases i been reading lately, i forgot he had confesed but didnt know 3 times to different people. :notgood:

 

[kittymittons]

Setting up cameras at the dumping site would have been great if he weren't already in jail until at least October. There's also no guarantee he would visit (although I think he probably has) and then he'd have a headstart on making a run for it.

I'm really hoping that shirt taken from his grandfather's house is pretty solid evidence in Jessica's case. As for Kara, it all seems circumstantial unless finding her body buried with Jessica's counts as more evidence.

I'm worried that he won't get a life sentence based on the evidence we know of. Hoping they have more.

 

[skibaboo]

Have faith guys, justice will come, I feel it

 

[Scout87]

And some blood swabs, although we don't know whose blood it was

They also took clothing and two 9mm bullets when they executed the search warrant during KY's arrest in Edwards, as well as various swabs, fingernail scrapings, etc. from KY. If I'm remembering correctly, it was around the time that the media released the images of the search warrants that KCPD sealed Jessica's case. I think they have a lot more than what we know. At least, I'm hopeful that they do.

 

[Scout87]

Have faith guys, justice will come, I feel it

He's the most hated person in Kansas City right now. In fact, I'm certain he's the most hated person in several cities at the moment. He'll get his, it's only a matter of time.

 

[Claireishere]

BBM

This worries me as well. Let's hope he has a crappy lawyer or there was SOMETHING left at the scene that would connect him to the girls.

I know this is unorthodox, but sometimes I feel like LE should silently retrieve the remains when discovered and allow the perp to believe the remains are still out there and his dumping ground is not disturbed.

Then run a sting/camera on the area the bones were (with maybe even fake bones there to replace the real ones in custody) to see if the perp comes back to visit the remains OR if he tries to use the dumping ground once again for another body. That would be the best evidence in cases like this.

Ugh but we have to be fair and play by the rules. :gaah:

Um no!!!!! Let's hope he has a good attorney. That does his job to the best of his ability. We do not want there to be a reason for his conviction to be overturned later and a bad attorney will most certainly overturn a conviction. Let's hope the evidence is so damning that his lawyer can't possibly argue against it. I think they are waiting to charge him as long as they can and are just slowly and methodically building a rock solid case against him. I think these were emotional, volatile murders. He left evidence. My only concern is that the evidence isn't as strong as they want and they let him plead down. I'm also really interested to see if this is going to be a capital case or just a second degree murder charge.

 

[Finn17]

I received a little bit of clarification today about where the skulls were actually found, and realized I had been looking at it incorrectly. I had originally thought that they were found just inside the trees facing Y Hwy. They were actually located about 15' or so into the trees from the edge of the field side. That wooded area is only 30-40' wide, so it doesn't make a huge difference, but how/where he was parking may be different. I had imagined he had parked in the "triangle" off of Y so he could see any oncoming traffic, but that is likely not the case. From what I'm gathering, police seem to think they were buried in a shallow grave.

 

[kittymittons]

I received a little bit of clarification today about where the skulls were actually found, and realized I had been looking at it incorrectly. I had originally thought that they were found just inside the trees facing Y Hwy. They were actually located about 15' or so into the trees from the edge of the field side. That wooded area is only 30-40' wide, so it doesn't make a huge difference, but how/where he was parking may be different. I had imagined he had parked in the "triangle" off of Y so he could see any oncoming traffic, but that is likely not the case. From what I'm gathering, police seem to think they were buried in a shallow grave.

Where did you receive that info if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Vail]

You can see where they taped it off in the helicopter flyover video (facebook post upthread) at the edge of the field there. He could have parked on the NW but it seems like parking in the loop area off Y allows him immediate entry to the woods to avoid detection. We also have a witness placing his truck parked on Y the first time around so assume from that what you will! Only KY knows the truth I guess :/

 

[Scout87]

You can see where they taped it off in the helicopter flyover video (facebook post upthread) at the edge of the field there. He could have parked on the NW but it seems like parking in the loop area off Y allows him immediate entry to the woods to avoid detection. We also have a witness placing his truck parked on Y the first time around so assume from that what you will! Only KY knows the truth I guess :/

There's a couple of different videos showing where they taped off several different sections of the woods, from the area closer to the field to the area closer to the turnaround loop on the street side. They initially said they had an area of five miles, and then as they recovered more and searched, they narrowed it down to two. I really think he parked near the loop, or just down from it as it allowed him to see what's coming and going. I've been looking at the location using Google Earth and it does look like in some places that he may have even been able to drive down into the woods. The fencing does not appear to be heavy duty or reinforced, just a simple barrier to remind people that it's private property. It's hard to tell though. As you said, only he knows what he did and I don't think he's going to be forthcoming about any of it.

 

[Scout87]

Um no!!!!! Let's hope he has a good attorney. That does his job to the best of his ability. We do not want there to be a reason for his conviction to be overturned later and a bad attorney will most certainly overturn a conviction. Let's hope the evidence is so damning that his lawyer can't possibly argue against it. I think they are waiting to charge him as long as they can and are just slowly and methodically building a rock solid case against him. I think these were emotional, volatile murders. He left evidence. My only concern is that the evidence isn't as strong as they want and they let him plead down. I'm also really interested to see if this is going to be a capital case or just a second degree murder charge.

Amen. I hope he has the best defense that they can find. I don't want him being able to appeal on the grounds of ineffective representation. There's enough loopholes through which he can appeal without adding that to mix. And we have to remember as well that the job of the defense is to do nothing more than plant a seed of doubt in the minds of the jurors. The prosecutor had better be damn good too.

I'm curious as well what the charge might be. Because there are two murders being investigated here, I have a feeling they may charge high and add the lesser included charges for the jury to review. He's got a long road ahead of him, regardless. He's also yet to be charged with the slew of probation violations he committed.

I'm including a few links on laws involving homicides in Missouri and the aggravating factors that the prosecutor would need to prove during trial. Keep in mind that Missouri has recently been in the process of revising it's criminal code:
http://www.mobar.org/Media-Center/News-Blog/Revisions-to-Missouri-Criminal-Code-now-official/
http://www.abc17news.com/news/new-r...e-for-2017-mean-harsher-punishments/235103434

Capital Punishment in Missouri:
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/missouri-law/missouri-capital-punishment-laws.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Missouri

First degree murder:
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/missouri-law/missouri-first-degree-murder.html
Trial Proceudre for 1st Degree (from 2013): http://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2013/title-xxxviii/chapter-565/section-565.030/

Second degree murder: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/missouri-law/missouri-second-degree-murder.html

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Oh my fly on the wall .... What was KY's reaction to the finding of JR & Kk


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[Scout87]

Oh my fly on the wall .... What was KY's reaction to the finding of JR & Kk


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I selfishly hope they got it on video, a la Casey Anthony. I imagine some degree of veiled shock since he skated so long after Kara's disappearance. At the same time, I'm sure that he's very careful to not allow his reactions to reveal himself.

 

[Claireishere]

The thing is with KY is (don't get me wrong here I think he's scum) but I really do think these were both heat of the moment drug fueled murders. I think he has some crazy abandonment issues and a whole lot of crazy added to addiction issues. While I am very much an eye for an eye type, I think legally our chances of getting the death penalty are narrow. I honestly think that if he sees the DP as a real possibility he will fess up to some degree and plead out. I do not think we are ever going to know the true circumstances with the girls deaths because of decomp and KY being a lying crazy person that will minimize his bad actions at all cost. I do think that had we found Jessica earlier there would possibly be some aggravating circumstances to make it a capital case (I.E rape, or robbery) i think he will some how twist it and make her death seem like she was asking for it. However I think if he thinks there's a chance he's getting off then he will never plead.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

I selfishly hope they got it on video, a la Casey Anthony. I imagine some degree of veiled shock since he skated so long after Kara's disappearance. At the same time, I'm sure that he's very careful to not allow his reactions to reveal himself.

He has been controlled in reactions because he never thought they would be found. Over time he thought mentally he had won, not so much now....


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[Scout87]

He has been controlled in reactions because he never thought they would be found. Over time he thought mentally he had won, not so much now....


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I think whatever he's got going on psychologically also aides in his ability to control his reactions and emotions. The legal system helped in inflating his ego because he was allowed to skate so long after Kara went missing. Even with the other crimes he committed, he was given a slap on the wrist and sometimes not even that. He really thought he was above it all.

 

[Scout87]

The thing is with KY is (don't get me wrong here I think he's scum) but I really do think these were both heat of the moment drug fueled murders. I think he has some crazy abandonment issues and a whole lot of crazy added to addiction issues. While I am very much an eye for an eye type, I think legally our chances of getting the death penalty are narrow. I honestly think that if he sees the DP as a real possibility he will fess up to some degree and plead out. I do not think we are ever going to know the true circumstances with the girls deaths because of decomp and KY being a lying crazy person that will minimize his bad actions at all cost. I do think that had we found Jessica earlier there would possibly be some aggravating circumstances to make it a capital case (I.E rape, or robbery) i think he will some how twist it and make her death seem like she was asking for it. However I think if he thinks there's a chance he's getting off then he will never plead.

I agree that it will be difficult to charge with first degree on the evidence that we know about. Due to lack of evidence, second degree may be the highest charge he gets. That still puts him in the lane of possibility for as much as life without parole and as little as ten years.

I don't think he's just crazy, though, and I'm not sure it was just drugs or heat of the moment. It's hard to know. It may very well have been. Sociopaths tend to process drugs and alcohol differently than the vast majority of people and it's possible his anger was fueled more by lack of control and his perception of how he was being treated at that party.

A witness also stated to a private detective that he admitted to her what he did to Kara and he loved doing it. https://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/06/02/family-searches-for-answers-in-missouri-teens-disappearance/

That doesn't speak to heat of the moment killing to me. That speaks volumes about the kind of person he is. I also don't think we would have gotten the snarky, smirking man walking out of the jail in Edwards to be transported to KC if this were just a heat of the moment killing involving drugs. I know I've said it many times here, but it will take a lot to convince me that he's not a sociopath with something like antisocial personality disorder fueling him to do what he's done. The circumstances surrounding his childhood, the animal abuse, drug and alcohol addictions, aggression, lying, intense control issues, repeat offenses, impulsive and reckless behavior...all signal that he is a sociopath. If he's just crazy, so be it. He can take the psychological testing through the court and plead insanity. But I think there's a lot more going on than that.

 

[Claireishere]

I agree that it will be difficult to charge with first degree on the evidence that we know about. Due to lack of evidence, second degree may be the highest charge he gets. That still puts him in the lane of possibility for as much as life without parole and as little as ten years.

I don't think he's just crazy, though, and I'm not sure it was just drugs or heat of the moment. It's hard to know. It may very well have been. Sociopaths tend to process drugs and alcohol differently than the vast majority of people and it's possible his anger was fueled more by lack of control and his perception of how he was being treated at that party.

A witness also stated to a private detective that he admitted to her what he did to Kara and he loved doing it. https://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/06/02/family-searches-for-answers-in-missouri-teens-disappearance/

That doesn't speak to heat of the moment killing to me. That speaks volumes about the kind of person he is. I also don't think we would have gotten the snarky, smirking man walking out of the jail in Edwards to be transported to KC if this were just a heat of the moment killing involving drugs. I know I've said it many times here, but it will take a lot to convince me that he's not a sociopath with something like antisocial personality disorder fueling him to do what he's done. The circumstances surrounding his childhood, the animal abuse, drug and alcohol addictions, aggression, lying, intense control issues, repeat offenses, impulsive and reckless behavior...all signal that he is a sociopath. If he's just crazy, so be it. He can take the psychological testing through the court and plead insanity. But I think there's a lot more going on than that.

I've always thought that Karas murder was planned due to his pending charges from her, then I read the article about her last phone call and it put my thoughts in a tailspin. Why would he allow her to call someone and say she was with him if he was planning on killing her later that day? That's what gave me pause on it being premediateted.

Like you I also believe he is likely a sociopath however thebpart that again had me second guessing was him supposedly confessing his love for Jessica the night of her disappearance. The descriptions of what he said sounded almost child like. Then again I'm sure a sociopath can also wish for the white picket fence life also.

I don't think he has a chance with the insanity defense. It's rarely if ever successful when used firstly but then his little snarky attitude to the reporters seemed to clearly show he knows right from wrong and just didn't care what he did, he was only upset he was caught. That's also why I think in large part that a chance of an honest confession will never happen. He'd very much the child that's been caught and will just continue to lie no matter what.

 

[TexasT]

Mushroom hunters are on a roll this spring .

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