64th Witness Matthew Bauchle Assistant General Manager at Ignite Medical Resorts (def)
32m
Defense calls Matthew Bauchle Assistant General Manager at Ignite Medical Resorts. Ignite Medical Resorts owns what used to be Carondelet Manor. Bauchle explains records are purged every seven years. Brief questioning. State doesn't cross examine
65th Witness James Trainum, an expert witness with consulting experience in investigative failures (def)
He wrote
this book
also
see this interesting article
8m
Good morning, North Cass. Kylr Yust's defense team opens the second day of its case with James Trainum, an expert witness with consulting experience in investigative failures.
5m
Lead defense attorney raises the issue of KCPD officer Joshua Meierer's involvement with the investigation. Trainum said the initial issue he identified with Meierer's involvement was what he called failure to document investigative activity.
20m
Trainum: a high-profile case puts a lot of pressure on investigators to do something and reward money should not be linked to a conviction because there's always the incentive for the subject to change their testimony to get the reward money.
4m
Trainum tells the jury he spent around 160 hours reviewing thousands of pages of investigative files. He is being paid $10,000 on his current contract by the defense for his services, he told the jury
14m
Trainum says there are failures in evidence collection When they interviewed Yust and he gave an account such as being with people, making purchases--there was potential to corroborate
28m
He talks about evidence collection failure, evidence evaluation problems, and evidence analysis problems.
27m
"High profile cases put a lot of pressure on," to do something quickly, Trainum said.
26m
"If we feel that a witness is not being forthright, we resort to those very coercive tactics," Trainum said.
22m
As for emotional connection to families: "It's hard not to become and advocate and try to do the best you can to solve this case and get the bad guy," Trainum said.
25m
Supervisory issues. If supervisors aren't well trained to look and go back and be devil's advocates, it can cause problems, Trainum said.
17m
Trainum said he started reviewing the case in 2019, spending at least 160 hours going over the case. He created a timeline of the case. He reviewed witness interview transcripts and depositions.
17m
Trainum testifies police did not collect enough evidence regarding Kylr Yust's alibi in the Kara Kopetsky case.
14m
The gold standard investigators want during investigations from suspects: "I'm telling you information you didn't know." And it's something you can go out and check.
14m
Trainum said investigators could have gone to interview staff at the nursing home where Yust said he was with his grandfather on May 4, 2007.
11m
Now, Trainum is talking about outside investigators in the Kopetsky case. "They began to conduct their own investigation. They began interviewing witnesses, approaching witnesses," Trainum said.
11m
Trainum said they had a lot of access to inside information about the case because of Kansas City Missouri police officer Joshua Meierer. Back/forth questions and objections by prosecution.
9m
Trainum said he reviewed a deposition from Ofcr. Meierer. He said Meierer did not document many things during his investigation. "He didn't put down what he was finding out," Trainum said.
8m
Trainum testifies he saw problems with the Belton Police investigation. "There might be evidence that take them in another direction. There might be evidence that would strengthen the case right there."
6m
Trainum says KCPD Officer Joshua Meierer broke several rules about interviewing witnesses by giving them leading questions and false info. Defense: How does that affect the witnesses? "It impacts their reliability," Trainum said. "Their ultimate reliability."
5m
Trainum said family members can become a problem during police investigations if they conduct their own investigations. "It definitely can muddy up the waters," Trainum said.
3m
Re: supervisory issues. Reigning in Officer Meierer was one of them, Trainum said.
4m
Media attention can become a problem. Supervisors will start making decisions based on appearance rather than what's good for the investigation, Trainum testified. Media had access to police reports they shouldn't have had, Trainum said.
2m
Specific examples of investigative failure. Witnesses changed statements over time. "You always want to know why a witness changes their statements," Trainum said.
36s
The defense brings up Amy Clark. Prosecution objects. After what looked like a somewhat heated meeting at the bench, Judge Collins is sending the jury out.
2m
A series of objections by Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Julie Tolle allege the defense is asking the investigative consultant leading questions. Animated argument ensues at Judge William Collins' bench
1m
Judge Collins calls a 15-minute recess, sending the jury out of the courtroom
12m
Defense/prosecution arguing about Trainum's testimony regarding Amy Clark. It sounds like Trainum slipped somehow in his testimony, but I'm not exactly clear how. ((The defense was basically leading him to comment on specific witness testimony as a means of casting proxy doubt on their reliability, which is a big no no))
16m
In discussion outside of the hearing of the jury, Tolle accuses Turlington of purposely leading Trainum into attacking the credibility of each of the state's witnesses, one by one, by name.
12m
"Your job is not to tell people what the jury should decide," Judge Collins tells Trainum, away from the jury. "I will be extremely cautious," Trainum said.
6m
Trainum now talking about Amy Clark getting approached by Officer Meierer to give a statement. Trainum said before she talked to Meierer, family members of Kopetsky spoke with her. Clark testified earlier in the trial she noticed Yust had abused Kopetsky.
6m
Questioning Trainum, defense attorney Sharon Turlington brings up "Ice Princess." Prosecution objects.
4m
Trainum talking about Ice Princess. He said police did not document evidence about
Ice Princess.
2m
Turlington now bringing up Kylr Yust's art and tattoos. Turlington goes to hand something to Trainum. Prosecution objects. They approached the bench again. Prosecution firing several salvos of objections and approaches during Trainum's testimony.
15m
Questioning stops after the state objects--calls for a conference with Judge Collins. Jury steps out. Defense reminds Trainum he can't express hearsay. State says defense's line of questioning is out of line.
9m
Jury is back. Trainum discusses Amy Clark's statement, Clark went to police the day Kara went missing. Clark provided a recorded statement to
10m
Jury is now back in place. Turlington testifies that witness Amy Clark was approached by Kara Kopetsky's family members "multiple times" before being interviewed by Meierer
1m
Questioning resumes. Trainum looking at FBI report about Yust's tattoos. Then, a separate report about tattoos. Then, another report about tattoos and drawings.
3m
More defense questions for Trainum about several witnesses in the same community. Prosecution objects again.
39s
Questioning resumes regarding several witnesses in the same community. Trainum testifies you don't want cross contamination going on during investigation. You have to realize it happens.
45s
RE: Kara Kopetsky case, does the cross contamination becomes an issue? Memories fade. Memories get altered. Exposure to media. Records disappear. People die, Trainum said.
51s
Defense: How did Kopetsky case affect Runions case? Trainum: There was even more pressure for police to solve this thing. Rush to judgement, skipping some of the investigative measures they should've taken, he said.
2m
Trainum: when you have witnesses all connected in the same area, it can be problematic because you can cross containment potential testimony
2m
Trainum tells the jury excess communication between witnesses can be like "cross-contamination" and can negatively affect the accuracy of the information being shared.
1m
Defense: Are your
opinions in this case within a reasonable degree of certainty as to investigative failure. Trainum: Yes.
42s
In cross examination, Cass County Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Julie Tolle notes the history of abuse and cell phone records makes Yust the prime suspect in this case.
3m
Tolle asks Trainum if he was aware Yust had threatened Kopetsky with cutting her "m*** *advertiser censored**ing throat" less than a week before her disappearance? Yes, he agreed. "Then you would agree this was a good place for this investigation to begin?" Yes, he said
3m
"The place that is a real good starting place is when you have a suspect, a boyfriend," who has a history about domestic abuse, Tolle said. "In reality, that man sitting right over there was the prime suspect because he had a history of abusing Kara," Tolle said.
1m
"So you're wanting the jury to believe that this was somehow a suspect-driven investigation?" Tolle asked, "when in reality this was the perfectly logical place for it to begin."
9m
Re: phone records. Tolle: "You're aware, then, that the last phone call that Kopetsky makes is 10:25 on 5/4?" "I don't have my chart with me but that sounds about right," Trainum said. Yust texting/making calls, not sleeping, as he told police, Tolle said.
9m
Tolle is *really* picking apart what Trainum knew about phone records. She is trying to emphasize for the jury the evidence prosecutors have in the case about Kara's phone records and Yust's alibi.
7m
Back/forth between Trainum and Tolle. "We know that the last call that Kara accepts before walking out of Belton High School is from that man sitting right over there," prosecutor Julie Tolle said. "I believe so, yes," Trainum said.
3m
Trainum said he doesn't remember the emails Kylr sent to Jessica. You didn't read them? They would stick out right? Tolle said. "The defendant's pretty pitiful in them, and absolutely desperate to hold on to this relationship," Tolle said.
4m
Tolle, in her questioning, is getting in digs about Trainum not reviewing certain timelines/reports the prosecution has presented as evidence in the case.
