MO - Lindsay, 8, & Samuel Porter, 7, Independence, 6 June 2004

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Believe me, it wasn't that I didn't want to. Part of it was being scared. I only knew about this due to my husband. At first, all I knew about was their weed patch, by the time I found out about the meth & everything else. I was scared of what my husband would do. I stuck out like a sore thumb because I don't drink & drug. My husband knew how I felt about everything. They would of know it was me. By the time, I could call the police safely, Dan had already taking the kids. I told them everything I knew. Plus, all about my husband. They had no idea about him. I even asked them about Tina turning in the meth. The dective looked at me, like I was crazy. He told me she hadn't turned it in. I told him what I knew. Amazingly, a week or so, later she turned it in. Did I know all this would happen, of course,not. If I had would I have told sooner. But, it never occured to me that it would come to this. The only point I've tried to make is that both sides of the story should be told. Because if nothing else it shows how drugs destroyed everyone's life. Their family never used to be like this. They used to be happy, now all there is are ruins. If you look at some of the interviews, she says she turned it in to the police. Now, wheter or not the kids were being abused, Your guess is as good as mine. I don't think Tina was abusing them. I think Dan thought it was some one close to the family. Because he truly believed that with all his heart. Plus, meth tends to make people more parniod. But I can't see running around saying the kids are murdered. Not because of Dan but because of Tina. Hope is all she has to help her get up & try to get thought each day. Without that how can she think let alone face the future. As far as, Dr. Phil, they couldn't have done their home work that well. They didn't talk to Dan's three best friends, my husband and two other men that have know him for 15 years. There is no way to prove every thing. There's information the police are just not going to put out there. As far as child protection, it's one of the biggest jokes I know. I turn my husband' cuison in for meth use & hitting the kids. It was so hard that the child landed on the other side of my deck. This woman had thick, nasty scabs on her lips from a glass pipe. They didn't do a damm thing. She's still got the kids & still tokening away. Maybe every goverment office were you live does the right thing but here in the real world, the meth capital of our country, very seldom does it work that way. The workers have too many cases & are just burnt out. They just don't really see the horrors of it anymore. Their underpaid, overworked, & have dealt with things that none of us will ever even comprehen. It took me three years to get my grandsons. They knew the father did meth. Hell, there wasn't a drug test he didn't fail. Still it took 3 years. So, don't tell me about CPS, when you don't know anything about it. It must be nice to still in your little castle & judge everything and everyone. But down here with the rest of the peasants, I can tell you it's not that easy.
 
little evil said:
no, he hasn't been my friend. Tina & Dan were my husband's friends for over 15 years. I've known them for 7 years. The Dr. Phil Show was a joke. And I like Dr. Phil. The lady on the show could barely articulate anything. Dan and Tina move in a drug circle. Do you really believe that those kind of people are going to cought up any real info. My husband did because I told him the truth better be told or I would leave him. I would almost bet I was the only sober person around. If you've ever seen what meth can do, it's truly appalling. Yes, I know the reality of missing children. But if we don't have hope, than what's left? I f people spent more time trying to help the police, than wishing ill on the father, maybe they would home. God's got Dan covered. He'll take care of that in good time As far DSF, Miss thing couldn't have had an investigestion done on herself or she'd know that they are a bigger joke than Dr. Phil. And She should be ashamed running her mouth about what she doesn't know. Sounds like she's got issues with men. I'm not smearing anyone, I'm telling the truth. Who is she to try to say what I've seen & heared in my life. From her first post, she was overemtional. That's not going to get those kids home and running her mouth to me isn't going to change that
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So Tina and Dan ran with a druggie crowd. That makes neither of them shining examples as parents. Maybe the kids would be better off with a decent relative...done legally...or in foster care. So even though Dan was also a druggie he was running Tina down for using too. Dan takes the kids to get them away from the mother to protect them from her and her drugging...right? Yet, on the other hand Dan is a druggie too. Their friends are druggies. If he left those kids with his friends who are also druggies then they would be just as well off with their mother if she is a druggie.

This just isn't making sense to me. So Dan either murders his children because he doesn't want them to be with their drug using mother. Or Dan leaves them with whoever who probably uses too. You said Dan couldn't leave the kids with his relatives...are they druggies too or would they tell LE?
We know they aren't with Tina's relatives or she would know it. So it goes back to...the kids are either dead or dumped off with someone. How would Dan know that those people are going to want to raise his kids with no support or help from him. He is going to be in prison for many many years...by his choice. He is not thinking about the kids. Right now he has no idea what their lives are like...he isn't there.

If you knew how bad the children's home life was why didn't you make a call to Child Protective Services? Turn both parents in if they were using and neglecting their children. They have to investigate when they get calls.
 
little evil said:
Believe me, it wasn't that I didn't want to. Part of it was being scared. I only knew about this due to my husband. At first, all I knew about was their weed patch, by the time I found out about the meth & everything else. I was scared of what my husband would do. I stuck out like a sore thumb because I don't drink & drug. My husband knew how I felt about everything. They would of know it was me. By the time, I could call the police safely, Dan had already taking the kids. I told them everything I knew. Plus, all about my husband. They had no idea about him. I even asked them about Tina turning in the meth. The dective looked at me, like I was crazy. He told me she hadn't turned it in. I told him what I knew. Amazingly, a week or so, later she turned it in. Did I know all this would happen, of course,not. If I had would I have told sooner. But, it never occured to me that it would come to this. The only point I've tried to make is that both sides of the story should be told. Because if nothing else it shows how drugs destroyed everyone's life. Their family never used to be like this. They used to be happy, now all there is are ruins. If you look at some of the interviews, she says she turned it in to the police. Now, wheter or not the kids were being abused, Your guess is as good as mine. I don't think Tina was abusing them. I think Dan thought it was some one close to the family. Because he truly believed that with all his heart. Plus, meth tends to make people more parniod. But I can't see running around saying the kids are murdered. Not because of Dan but because of Tina. Hope is all she has to help her get up & try to get thought each day. Without that how can she think let alone face the future. As far as, Dr. Phil, they couldn't have done their home work that well. They didn't talk to Dan's three best friends, my husband and two other men that have know him for 15 years. There is no way to prove every thing. There's information the police are just not going to put out there. As far as child protection, it's one of the biggest jokes I know. I turn my husband' cuison in for meth use & hitting the kids. It was so hard that the child landed on the other side of my deck. This woman had thick, nasty scabs on her lips from a glass pipe. They didn't do a damm thing. She's still got the kids & still tokening away. Maybe every goverment office were you live does the right thing but here in the real world, the meth capital of our country, very seldom does it work that way. The workers have too many cases & are just burnt out. They just don't really see the horrors of it anymore. Their underpaid, overworked, & have dealt with things that none of us will ever even comprehen. It took me three years to get my grandsons. They knew the father did meth. Hell, there wasn't a drug test he didn't fail. Still it took 3 years. So, don't tell me about CPS, when you don't know anything about it. It must be nice to still in your little castle & judge everything and everyone. But down here with the rest of the peasants, I can tell you it's not that easy.
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There are two problems I have with your scenario, Little Evil. First, to my knowledge, there has never been any evidence shown that Mrs. Porter was either abusing her children or had a drug problem. Show me a link to a news report or to a court record that supports your allegations and you will have instant credibility. Second, Mr. Porter has never alledged to have taken the children because he felt they were being abused. In fact, he has made it abundantly clear that he took the children to spite their mother.

All we have is a story from you, an anonymous internet poster. You will have to forgive any of us who take your story with a grain of salt. Frankly, I don't believe you and that's my perogative. But even if your story is true, it's immaterial. There is absolutely no justification for kidnapping OR murder. Regardless of your opinion of Child Protective Services, no legitimate father would go straight to kidnapping, without making some attempt at legal ways to protect his children. This all smacks of damage control and "excuse"-ism.

I do believe the children are dead at their father's hands. I may be wrong, but I seriously doubt that anyone is out there hiding his children for him. He may be stupid enough to sit in jail with his lips sealed, but I find it hard to believe that any one else is going to be willing to take a bullet for him.
 
OK, I have weighed in before, back on page 4 of this thread. I edited my post because I too at first brought up Tina's drug use. I didn't want to talk about someone when they can't defend themselves. However, I am going to open up a bit now in light of all that has been said so far.

I too, unfortunately have been involved in the meth world. I can't say I was the lone clean one in a crowd however. I know for a fact that both parents were meth users, here in the former meth capital of the US. half of Indep. seemed to be at one point. There was an article in The Rolling Stone back in Feb '89 called "America's Drug - Postcards From Tweakville" about this city. I have since cleaned my life up, and managed to keep my children.

I was in that world for almost 10 years though, and I can say that DFS is not that big a joke because I know of very few meth users that still have their kids. Though alot of them just abandon them with family, I know quite a few in foster care or placed with other family members because of DFS. There are very few who snow LE and DFS enough to keep their kids.

I believe he killed them to hurt her, I don't care what anyone says. Meth changes you, makes you do things you never would have done before. He wanted to hurt her cause she moved on. Why in the world would his gun have been found in the MO river right there at La Bonite park where he was seen at the time. If he didn't hurt them why would he throw the gun in the river, why even have it with him?

If he wanted to "save them" he could have done a million other things to get them away. If he loved them so much why not run with them? Country or no country, how could these 2 kids not have been seen by anyone? How can they be schooled, supported? Is it realistic to think someone is keeping them on a farm in the country and no one noticed? If that is the case, how could anyone think that is a better life for them, basically being held captive so no one sees them? That is the only way that would work.

Finally, there is no reason under any circumstances that I would say what Dan did was in any way justified. I know they both did use meth, I don't know if she still was using at the time. There is still no justification for taking the kids the way he did no matter what. If he didn't kill them, if he truly was trying to save them, he should have done it a diferent way.
 
Traybone, I think your post is an honest and insightful one and I agree completely. I do not dispute that Mrs. Porter may have been involved in drug use. In the absence of concrete evidence, however, I chose to give her the benefit of the doubt. Regardless of any past mistakes she may have made, she is a victim in this case and deserves consideration.

I have no involvement in the drug culture and never have. My heart goes out to anyone and everyone whose lives have been destroyed by addictive substances in general and meth in particular. Truly an evil unleashed upon us.

I applaud your ability to get over the drug use and admire your courage. God bless you and your children.
 
I don't know if this has already been posted, so sorry if it is a duplicate posting, but this site was started this Feb. and an internet buddy of mine is the site admin. I hope you all check it out. It even has forums!!!:)

http://www.samandlindsey.org/
 
I have never said that Tina has abused her childern. Idon't believe that Tina hurt her childern or ever wanted them hurt. I would really like people to stop putting that in my mouth. I have already posted that. I do believe that it clouded her judgement about what & who her children were exposed to. The person in that post says that meth changes you & he is right. I've lived with an addict for 6 years. It makes them cruel, selfish & angery all the time. People do things they never would sober. I believe that Dan thought the childern were being hurt. Missouri is a mother oreinted state. If your a mother you really don't have to worry about your husband getting custody. It's a gender bias state. I say that & I'm a woman. I think he really believed he had no choice. I have never said I thought he was right. I just believe both sides deseves to be told. If I truly believed that my childern were being hurt & the court was no use to me. I would save my childern no matter what the cost. Why is it that the man can posted that he knew they were on drugs & I do believe that it is wonderful that he is sober. That is a feat that many addicts can't manage. I appuald him. He deseves all the respect. But somehow the respones to his post is it's o.k. that Tina used. I believe Dan simplely for the fact he is sober & his story has never changed
 
Little Evil, you said:

I believe Dan simplely for the fact he is sober & his story has never changed

How can his story never change? It was never straight!! He tells Tina the kids are dead. He tells Tina the kids are alive. He tells Tina the kids are with friends. He says he sold them.

How is that a story that never changed?
 
jaybird said:
Little Evil, you said:

I believe Dan simplely for the fact he is sober & his story has never changed

How can his story never change? It was never straight!! He tells Tina the kids are dead. He tells Tina the kids are alive. He tells Tina the kids are with friends. He says he sold them.

How is that a story that never changed?
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Seems like an ever changing story to me.
 
First of all Little Evil, I am a woman!! Second, I have to agree with everyone else, Dan is a big fat liar who has told so many I doubt he can keep them straight. Also, I missed the part where you said Dan is sober, but if you think about it, he is in jail....DUH!!!!
 
little evil said:
Duh, that's the point jail has sobered him up. He had no chocie in the matter. I never said his story stay the same for the media, laywers, cops or Tina. It has remain constant with us. He has not varied once or on any detail that he has told us. Duh, you think he's going to tell law enforcement the truth. Not quite bright are you? It would defeat his purpose to tell any of them. Don't you think or do you think? Common sense would say that as long as he can produce confusition, it's all the better for him.
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I think you should use some common sense and not believe a drug addicted murderer. If he is clean now, then great but he wasn't clean when he took those kids. And yeah why would he tell the media and LE the truth because then he would spend life in prison. So if he tells you and your husband the truth about the kids have you told the cops. Do you have proof that they are alive and well. Have they called you? I mean what proof besides this mans word, which I wouldn't believe.
 
little evil said:
Oh, now, you believe there was drug use? DUH!!
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I agreed with you!! I was the one that said they were meth users as I am from Indep. as well. You really need to start thinking when you post.

And if his story has not wavered with you, his friends, who know him, then of course he is telling the truth!!! Uh-Uh, Dont think so!! I am sure he would not want to say "Hey, yeah, I killed them" and lose what little support he has out there. Why anyone would defend this guy is beyond me. I don't care if he was my brother!! Unless I knew for a fact that the kids were in danger with the mom, and I knew for a fact they were alive, there is no way I would defend him!!!

Lets face it!! Even if he magically reveals the kids whereabouts alive and well, this guy is exactly where he belongs, and not for long enough!!!:behindbar :behindbar :behindbar
 
I have never said he shouldn't do time. He was wrong even if he thought he was doing the best for the kids. As a parent, I can understand. If I thought my kids were getting hurt, it would take more than a court or jail cell to make me talk. And of course, more is going on with the investigation than what the public is being told. How else could they investigate if the public knew everything? With all cases there are false confessers, people that call & make up things. Because they get off on it, in a sick sick way. There's going to be things that we will never know until it's all over.
l.e.
 
Traybone, Have you gone to the police, that at one point you were also a user. That you know them, you most likely have way more helpful info than I. But I went down of my own free will and got grilled for 6 hrs. Just in case I knew something that would help. HAVE YOU? That comment that you were speaking about wasn't for you
 
indepedence is the meth capital! so what about the kids? where are theu?
 
It may have been down when you tried or something, but I just clicked the link that was inside the quote and it worked fine. I don't know but pm me if you are still having a problem, I will see if there is something else I can do.


As for you Little Evil, I never said I knew them personally...I have never met them. I am saying I used to know people that used with them, or whatever... I know not one thing that would help the police. I wish I did!!!

P.S. The site that I met Joe on, his other site, he just changed around and updated completely, so maybe he made changes there too and it affected it just when you tried.
 
Traybone74 said:
It may have been down when you tried or something, but I just clicked the link that was inside the quote and it worked fine. I don't know but pm me if you are still having a problem, I will see if there is something else I can do.

P.S. The site that I met Joe on, his other site, he just changed around and updated completely, so maybe he made changes there too and it affected it just when you tried.
Click to expand...

Tray, ok thanks, it works now.
 
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