MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #10

[norest4thewicked]

I will admit this is my first real time on the fence....at least for an extended period of time. With most of the cases I've followed I am leaning pretty far in one direction almost from the beginning. This one is different. Just when I think I'm falling off on a certain side, some post or another brings me back up to a sitting position :waitasec:

I hear ya there! I am pro law enforcement/pro victim and keep remembering that LE is operating on their experience as experts. But, every time I see those parents on an interview, I go right back up the fence!

 

[Mirage]

Many years ago, when I lived in Wichita, KS, my neighbor directly across the street from me had an intruder in the middle of the night. Of course, they were totally freaked out (an older couple) and the man called 911 etc. When the police arrived, it turned out the intruder was drunk and lived two blocks down, and was so drunk he thought it was his house he had walked into. The older couple that lived there stated that was the first time ever that they must have forgotten to lock their front door. So... it is unusual, but still possible that things do happen "the very first time" you do something out of your normal routine.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Not to mention LE arriving with their light flashing.

"Police were back at the home of missing infant Lisa Irwin Sunday, and appeared to be trying to recreate the alleged kidnapping scene.
At least six detectives and four police cars could be seen at the home Sunday afternoon, and arrived with their lights flashing."


Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...rwin-home,-recreating-abduction#ixzz1aJIKSwWp

Yes, this is being done for an onlookers benefit I bet. Probably getting ready to haul them in for questioning.

 

[jjenny]

Is he using the kneeling person as a step?

Based on this photo it appears to be possible to get into the house through the window.

 

[Hallow]

I've been following all of you for a while. Sorry it's taken this long to actually post. I can't keep up here, though.

It's my opinion that that woman has been through abuse. Her body language in the interviews speaks volumes. A lot of speculation is that she's guilty of something but won't say. She lives in quite a predicament. One I know all too well, myself.

I am, myself, married and have another child with the man I'm currently with. I've had an estranged husband for years and have dealt with his abuse far too much for me to have filed for divorce from him. The mere thought of him knowing where I live or what my life is right now, petrifies me. Filing for divorce would allow him to know. I ran half way across the country just to escape him and it's a very real fear that he'd find me again. I couldn't ever deal with him again. I don't want to even think of it.

It is possible, that she's in somewhat of the same predicament here. Divorce is expensive and grossly a disgusting thing for anyone to have to go through. Put an abuser in the mix who will drag it on and on, and it seems hopeless. MAYBE, her ex is an abuser and she fears the backlash from filing for divorce from him? Maybe her current is an abuser and she fears him and his anger? Maybe both of them have abused her in some way, shape, or form? Emotional abuse is just as real as any other too. It causes people who are victims of it to do extreme things to either cope with it or to get away from it. For me, it caused me to run.

In those interviews, she's either looking to him for guidance of what she's saying or she's hoping like all heck, he doesn't fly off the handle at her behind closed doors. I can't quite figure it out just yet.

Honestly, the media honing in on her "checkered past" is disgusting and these reporters should be ashamed for possibly opening up a can of worms that cannot possibly be closed now. It's my assumption that she angered someone and someone has that baby to cause all this strife in her life. I've lived through a personal hell of my own, and I'm only giving my opinion here, based on my experiences. Honestly, the media needs to lay off and PD needs to start looking more into the men in that woman's life, past and present.

 

[mck16]

In Tuffy's post #557 above (thank you for posting that photo!), is that a large window on the end/side of the house? This is the first time I've seen that side of the house (as you face the house, far right side).

I see no gate or fence connecting side of the house to neighbor fence. Why would anyone climb in a window or use a front door that is in full view of the street - to leave or to enter this home? Why not do that from the side or back (assuming that a side window even opens or wasn't locked, etc.) Not that I expect anything to make sense and I know that some crimes just don't make sense. I suppose a person that was in that home (visitor) could have unlocked the window ahead of time if they planned it out. I'm confused obviously and need more coffee.

It's just bothered me to no end that it's possible entry and/or exit may have been in full view of a street rather than "sneaking" around the house. I hope that made sense?

When I looked at the picture of the back of the house it appears to me that the windows are very high and very small. It might be that the front windows were the only ones that anyone could have gone through.

Also I would like to add that I have talked to a person before who broke into people's homes to steal from them. He told me he took great pleasure in being in the house while the owners were there asleep. He said he would wander around the house or even watch them as they slept. I know pretty creepy. My husband was an attorney and I used to hear all sorts of weird stories from clients. Scary now that I recall them.

 

[chieftess]

The outside of this house reminds me of our old house. Where the brick ends is where the floor of the house would be, the concrete seen below the brick is actually the basement. The windows look normally placed from the inside, but from the outside there is about foot or more of distance from the concrete to the brick, making the window not easily accessible from the outside.

 

[krimekat]

Pretty sure it is considered fraud to continue to claim someone as a dependent / eligible for medical insurance if they do not live with you (exception being a minor child who is the legal custody of the other parent).

Respectfully snipped as I am just addressing the above: it's very common for BOTH parents to have insurance on a dependent/child, regardless of where the dependent/child resides or which parent has legal custody. As long as you are paying for the "claimant" coverage, I don't think the health insurer would care where the claimant resides, just that they are paid in full.

So I guess I am not sure what you mean here or why it would apply to little Lisa. Don't both her parents live in the same house? Sorry if I am confused . . .

Praying for her safe return.

 

[liz b.]

Screen in window, window open.

It is confusing a bit as Denise states that Jeramy asks her, Why is the screen popped out of the window and then she states: the corner of the screen was popped out.

Jeramy states: Window was open, he tried to close it and then notice the screen was popped out. It was pushed into the house and that was why the window would not close.

Based on the condition of the screen, no one could have fit through the screen. This was a reply to Judge J.'s question.

But, didn't Deb say, in that interview that she was using the computer that night, and that she had forgotten to close that window ? MOO

 

[curiositycat]

Getting in the window, looks like it was possible, even though I thought I saw another cop give him a bit of a lift. Why put the screen back on?

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

IKR? That was so irritating to me. I hate when the media resorts to sensationalism. I saw where you mentioned earlier that you were looking for link to the second coverage and the first because what you heard in the first led you to believe there was going to be this bombshell information and the second had no bombshell.

Hence my rather pointed comment about checkered. It was not aimed at any poster here, but rather expressing my displeasure with that news outlet for their choice of teasers.

Yes, it could have been a teaser...or whomever was supposed to give their info on the husband may have opted out at the last minute...or was advised to not do an interview. We may never know.

 

[mrye4709]

That's who I meant...hughesway. UGH, isn't it just irritating??? You pay all the $$ every month and still get put in the corner lol.

I've had to buy tokens twice last week.

You would think for what it cost we would get more. Very limited on my choices though.

 

[IAM]

Why would one of the first things Jeremy would do is try to close the window? If I came home and all lights were on and I saw a window open I think I would think someone might still be in house and I would reach for my phone as I check on my spouse and kids. I would not touch the window and ruin evidence for LE. Unless I needed a reason for my fresh prints to be there.

 

[Cher352]

Just a thought on the window LE is currently trying to climb in.

I am 45 years old, not in the best shape of my life, 5'8 and suffering middle age spread.

I could easily get in that window. I might have to leave by the front door if I am carrying a 10 month old tho. I would be very concerned about dropping her if trying to exit by the window. I might even cautiously flick on a few lights as I made my way out. Especially after noticing while creeping out of the baby's room quietly that all the bedroom doors are closed and people are less likely to notice a change in the lighting.

I do get very hung up on the cel phones tho if the window does turn out to be the point of entry, I cant figure the reason to take the cel phones. Unless one must pass the kitchen after exiting the baby's room on the way out the front door and they were grab impulsively.

Really? By the pictures even even the guy with LE is needing help to get up.
You must be more fit than you think...LOL

 

[feistygurl]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/0...n-by-stranger-as-authorities/?test=latestnews


Suspicion almost always falls heavily on the parents, especially when it's young kids," Finkelhor said. "Fifteen hundred parents kill their kids every year, and that's heavily focused on the under 1 year of age category."

Finkelhor noted that in some cases, parents have concocted stories about a kidnapping after accidentally killing their child instead of facing the tragedy.

Snipped

 

[Marah]

Unanswered questions:

Was Lisa able to crawl out of her crib? Had she done this before?

Did either of the boys sleepwalk?

Was it very unusual for one of the boys to sleep with his mom in her bed?

Could the boys unlock the front door easily? Were there several locks on the door?

I was thinking about it and having a lot of lights on is something a kid would do. To look for something, maybe a kitten? Did the boy unlock the door to look for the kitten and forget to lock it up again? Did he open up the windows looking for the kitten because he could hear it meowing? The only thing I can't explain away is the missing cell phones.

DEbbie explained (with lots of jumbled words) that when daddy is away the kids like to sleep with her. It was not clear at all in how she answered, but that is what she was trying to say.

I thought it was unusual because the dad when he got to the room, asked Debbie, why are the lights on, front door open, boy in the bed, etc.....so it was odd....

 

[jjenny]

Really? By the pictures even even the guy with LE is needing help to get up.
You must be more fit than you think...LOL

But the window is big enough for someone to get in.

 

[EllaMae]

According to the MO lawyers, the fact that he is the biodad and gets a dna test is nice but not the end of the story (i know- it is weird) Sean Bradley is the presumed father because he and Debbie were married when Lisa was born.
If Debbie and Sean get a divorce, there is a way for Jeremy to be a third party to the action and get it all legally established. I hope the lawyers start chiming in and explain this again.

I understood all that as it was explained last night. But that's just a legal formality. He would still be her bio dad, and I'm sure the other guy wouldn't want to be financially responsible for another man's child and would be only be too happy to bow out.

My point was that he can prove he's the bio dad legally, if indeed he is, and he seems to have no doubt about that. He has taken the legal route once before to get his child. He has a home, a job, a son he went to some trouble to get custody of, so he must love that child and want to be a father to him as well.
Why would he stage a kidnapping to get baby Lisa and lose his entire life when it is not necessary? He could just take the legal steps needed to be in Lisa's life also.

 

[saba]

I've been following all of you for a while. Sorry it's taken this long to actually post. I can't keep up here, though.

It's my opinion that that woman has been through abuse. Her body language in the interviews speaks volumes. A lot of speculation is that she's guilty of something but won't say. She lives in quite a predicament. One I know all too well, myself.

I am, myself, married and have another child with the man I'm currently with. I've had an estranged husband for years and have dealt with his abuse far too much for me to have filed for divorce from him. The mere thought of him knowing where I live or what my life is right now, petrifies me. Filing for divorce would allow him to know. I ran half way across the country just to escape him and it's a very real fear that he'd find me again. I couldn't ever deal with him again. I don't want to even think of it.

It is possible, that she's in somewhat of the same predicament here. Divorce is expensive and grossly a disgusting thing for anyone to have to go through. Put an abuser in the mix who will drag it on and on, and it seems hopeless. MAYBE, her ex is an abuser and she fears the backlash from filing for divorce from him? Maybe her current is an abuser and she fears him and his anger? Maybe both of them have abused her in some way, shape, or form? Emotional abuse is just as real as any other too. It causes people who are victims of it to do extreme things to either cope with it or to get away from it. For me, it caused me to run.

In those interviews, she's either looking to him for guidance of what she's saying or she's hoping like all heck, he doesn't fly off the handle at her behind closed doors. I can't quite figure it out just yet.

Honestly, the media honing in on her "checkered past" is disgusting and these reporters should be ashamed for possibly opening up a can of worms that cannot possibly be closed now. It's my assumption that she angered someone and someone has that baby to cause all this strife in her life. I've lived through a personal hell of my own, and I'm only giving my opinion here, based on my experiences. Honestly, the media needs to lay off and PD needs to start looking more into the men in that woman's life, past and present.

Thank you for joining us and for sharing.

 

[Gardenlady]

I've been following all of you for a while. Sorry it's taken this long to actually post. I can't keep up here, though.

It's my opinion that that woman has been through abuse. Her body language in the interviews speaks volumes. A lot of speculation is that she's guilty of something but won't say. She lives in quite a predicament. One I know all too well, myself.

I am, myself, married and have another child with the man I'm currently with. I've had an estranged husband for years and have dealt with his abuse far too much for me to have filed for divorce from him. The mere thought of him knowing where I live or what my life is right now, petrifies me. Filing for divorce would allow him to know. I ran half way across the country just to escape him and it's a very real fear that he'd find me again. I couldn't ever deal with him again. I don't want to even think of it.

It is possible, that she's in somewhat of the same predicament here. Divorce is expensive and grossly a disgusting thing for anyone to have to go through. Put an abuser in the mix who will drag it on and on, and it seems hopeless. MAYBE, her ex is an abuser and she fears the backlash from filing for divorce from him? Maybe her current is an abuser and she fears him and his anger? Maybe both of them have abused her in some way, shape, or form? Emotional abuse is just as real as any other too. It causes people who are victims of it to do extreme things to either cope with it or to get away from it. For me, it caused me to run.

In those interviews, she's either looking to him for guidance of what she's saying or she's hoping like all heck, he doesn't fly off the handle at her behind closed doors. I can't quite figure it out just yet.

Honestly, the media honing in on her "checkered past" is disgusting and these reporters should be ashamed for possibly opening up a can of worms that cannot possibly be closed now. It's my assumption that she angered someone and someone has that baby to cause all this strife in her life. I've lived through a personal hell of my own, and I'm only giving my opinion here, based on my experiences. Honestly, the media needs to lay off and PD needs to start looking more into the men in that woman's life, past and present.

:welcome:

A very thoughtful first post. And :hug: from another DV survivor!