MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #2

[Lavanda Dolce]

I agree with you and this is how I would have taken care of my children (nearly 30 yrs ago). My son & daughter in law raise their son differently. They insist the baby gets hot at night and only put him to bed in a t-shirt & diaper, summer & winter. He's 20 mos old now so I guess they've done ok, just differently ... lol.

As for what the parents are waiting for, I don't know. I just know it's not that unusual for couples these days to have a baby first and a wedding even months later. One couple I know will have a 16 month old baby when they marry next summer.

I have considered the baby getting sick from the medicine whether an allergic reaction or accidental overdose. From everything I've seen, this child was loved & well cared for. I think the mother would have called 911 if she found her child not breathing, etc, etc.

All JMHO and I've been wrong before. I'm praying Baby Lisa will be safely home in her crib very, very soon.

I so hope that you are right. It's hard to really know anything from photographs, look at Susan Smith's boys...they were well groomed, beautiful handsome young boys. I am not saying this is the case with Baby Lisa...please don't misunderstand...I am keeping options open all the way around..however, the shorts and tee shirt is what bothered me...especially with a child who had a cough and cold. But as many posted it is common that perhaps she put her to bed the way she was dressed...I would think if the shorts and tee were pajamas that would have been stated though. I do go back to my original post in that if this child was abducted...it was by someone that knew the family, or the house and the lay out. The bedroom window is higher up off the ground..what is the chance a stranger got the right bedroom that an infant was sleeping? How would a stranger not know if a table and lamp was set under the window and fears of crashing over a lamp? How would a stranger know that if baby was in bed or sleeping with mom or dad? Just a lot of risks for a stranger to take and then get back out the window too? I think I would "feel better" knowing that someone came in an unlocked door to take a baby than the window? I think if the PD are confident this was an abduction they really need to look at people that knew the family intimately, or the house. Did the family sell something recently on Craigslist and allowed a stranger to come in? Did the family announce the birth of a baby girl publicly? Is the mom posting photos of the baby and/or bedroom on Facebook? These are things I am sure they will be investigating. I only hope and pray that my nagging gut is going to be wrong and that Baby Lisa is with someone who wanted a baby and will be caught and she returned to her family. I cannot imagine the pain they are going through.

 

[JeannaT]

It sounds like she had a matching pajama set on when mom put her to bed. Until there is some sort of evidence that there was bad or neglectful parenting going on, I think nitpicking the victims is a very poor idea.

My babies never wore pj's, and I would consider myself a "helicopter parent".

They always wore comfy street clothes to bed, and when they got older, undies and a t-shirt.

Pj's in the US are coated with a flame retardant, which makes them unbearably hot. They don't breathe.

 

[marycarney]

Gulp!!! I must be one of those parents. I have two kids in college and three at home. The two in college i text everyday! i dont call their professors though! but i know what their grades are since im going broke paying for their education. moo :seeya:

Ha! True helicopter parents have been known to show up at professor's offices to argue about how a paper their little darling wrote was graded! I keep track of my kids, but a true heli will not let their child fail: thus will not let them learn anything the 'hard way'. KWIM?

 

[SarahW]

I have a couple of concerns that I don't think I've read yet. Just nagging at me. Why was baby in bed for the night in shorts and a top? It was mentioned that baby had a cold and a cough. I am just throwing this out...certainly not to paint any negative against mom...however, I am wondering if it is possible something happened to baby with cough medicine and mom panicked if she found baby "gone?" Perhaps afraid Dad would be furious that she may have given baby adult cough medicine? Again...just throwing this out because the shorts and top in bed with a ten month old kind of bothers me. Especially if baby had a cold. Colds always worsen at night and I just know with my children I would always bath them in fresh pj's at bedtime. Could be, however, baby fell asleep and mom knowing baby didn't want to wake up just put her to bed in clothing? However...that would mean no clean fresh diaper at bedtime. I always made sure diaper was fresh at bedtime as we all know babies wet during sleep to avoid a mess in morning and so baby can sleep more comfortably.
I am just having a hard time that anyone would have found way around home in dark to get baby...unless in home before. Just some thinking out loud here.

The baby was in pajamas. It's just a knit cotton set with a top and shorts. Very ordinary. Initially described to police as pajamas. It's just a more specific description of the type of pajamas.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

A little bit of hope to hang on to..

Allen was cautiously hopeful that Lisa would be found, saying that of the 278 infant abductions nationwide over the past 28 years, only 12 of those children didn't come home safely.

Snipped: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=1070&sid=17535706

 

[AnaTeresa]

And honestly - does it really matter if it's street clothes or pajamas? These parents were in tune enough with their child to name a bug bite on her. I really doubt we're looking at a case of neglect here, nor does letting your child sleep in street clothes mean that you're more likely to murder them as evidenced by quite a few posters here who let their kids do the same.

 

[SarahW]

Here is a purple set by Gerber with white kittens:
http://cdn2.iofferphoto.com/img3/item/207/514/462/g_girls-pajama-set-18-months-03848.jpg

 

[Mandy113]

Susan Smith and those precious boys also have come to mind while I've been reading about this case. To be honest, I can't trust my gut because no matter how many times it happens, I'm still shocked a parent/caregiver is the one responsible for harming a child.

I just don't know what to think here. Stranger abductions do happen. Without some reason pointing me towards the parents, I just don't see it. I don't know anything about black market adoptions but I suppose it's a possibility too.

All I can do is pray for Baby Lisa to be safe & warm wherever she is tonight.

 

[SarahW]

I'm wondering if mom had an FB page (these days who doesn't). The reason I say this is because I remember a case we reviewed for one of my CJ classes. A woman (who wanted a baby) befriended a mother of a newborn on the internet. Longer story short they conversed for a few weeks, the mother invited this woman to come over, went to get her something to drink or to the bathroom, came back and the woman and her baby were gone.

People have a tendency to post way too much info on social networking sites (including pics and things like "hubby starts new job tonight...") for people to see and take advantage of.

Just a theory...

She has a page (deborah Netz) but it's set to private. Her family, esp dad had all kinds of photos of the baby and the boys.
Deborah's dad, that is.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I think that if the "man with a baby" story was factual or connected, LE would have said they are following specific leads, rather than more or less saying they don't have any leads...JMO

I do not think anyone that was abducting a baby would just be walking down the street like that, clu. What if the baby were to start crying for Mommy, or struggling? The abductor could not have had duct tape or anything of the sort on the baby's mouth and be walking casually down the street either, IMO, so I am not believing this sighting.

The person was mistaken, IMO.

 

[elepher50]

Mama has a FB page but it is private - only one pix of the children available to the public.

 

[iamnotagolem]

My babies never wore pj's, and I would consider myself a "helicopter parent".

They always wore comfy street clothes to bed, and when they got older, undies and a t-shirt.

Pj's in the US are coated with a flame retardant, which makes them unbearably hot. They don't breathe.

Sorry I didn't mean to say that not wearing pajamas leads to neglect or abuse, I was actually trying to defend the mom. Shorts, pajamas or no pajamas is not an indicator of abuse or neglect. My kids don't always wear pajamas to bed. My DS just wears a diaper *gasp* most of the time b/c he just gets too darn hot.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Ha! True helicopter parents have been known to show up at professor's offices to argue about how a paper their little darling wrote was graded! I keep track of my kids, but a true heli will not let their child fail: thus will not let them learn anything the 'hard way'. KWIM?

DD attended college out-of-state, so there is no way that DH or I could have "landed" on campus whenever the mood struck That said, DH and I know some parents who are what we consider to be overly-involved in their youngsters' school and extra-curricular activities. These well-intentioned folks will likely turn into the "helicopter parents" who will be in hands-on mode when their kids go off to college. jmo

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Susan Smith and those precious boys also have come to mind while I've been reading about this case. To be honest, I can't trust my gut because no matter how many times it happens, I'm still shocked a parent/caregiver is the one responsible for harming a child.

I just don't know what to think here. Stranger abductions do happen. Without some reason pointing me towards the parents, I just don't see it. I don't know anything about black market adoptions but I suppose it's a possibility too.

All I can do is pray for Baby Lisa to be safe & warm wherever she is tonight.

It's all very sad and very scary. Yes, there are still black market abductions and a whole host of possible scenarios...and we don't know for sure if someone may have told someone they were pregnant and the dad may have been overseas in Iraq or something and now coming home and the "someone" panicked and needed an "older" baby...thousands of scenarios...but I still say in the end when Baby Lisa is found...it will come out that the person had intimate knowledge of the family...whether online as a friend or has been in that home before. I hope and pray that she is safe too.

 

[SarahW]

I still suspect some kind of domestic shenanigans, even if outside the nuclear family unit.

I'm really troubled that there has been foot-dragging on marriage, Spring? If you plan to get married at all, what is the hold up, except for procrastination and hesitation? City hall after birth of a child is appropriate. she is not a first-time bride... she's given birth already to his baby! If affording a party is the problem, marry, then have the party later.

There may be conflict in this relationship over the delay. I want to know how Jeremy treats his exes and his other child.

and that it was necessary for a former live-in to file a paternity suit to have paternity of her child acknowledged by Jeremy.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I don't necessarily think there is foot dragging on the wedding. Maybe they want a spring wedding? Maybe they want to wait until Lisa is old enough to walk so she can be a flower girl? Maybe it's none of our concern and not related to the case.

While it is not something I would do, I just don't see how it relates to the case.

I do agree it'd be nice to know Jeremy's relationship w/his ex, his child and his child's age and relationship w/Lisa.

 

[mrsu]

My 7yo DAUGHTER refuses to sleep in a pajama shirt. Mostly she sleeps in little girl boxers from The Gap and NO TOP. God forbid if she ever were to get kidnapped...I can imagine what would be said about me.

Let's not judge on her sleep attire. It's been hot in here in the midwest and the fact that she had on shorts isn't a big deal at all. Many pajamas come in short sets.

 

[branwynbreeze]

I still suspect some kind of domestic shenanigans, even if outside the nuclear family unit.

I'm really troubled that there has been foot-dragging on marriage, Spring? If you plan to get married at all, what is the hold up, except for procrastination and hesitation? City hall after birth of a child is appropriate. she is not a first-time bride... she's given birth already to his baby! If affording a party is the problem, marry, then have the party later.

There may be conflict in this relationship over the delay. I want to know how Jeremy treats his exes and his other child.

and that it was necessary for a former live-in to file a paternity suit to have paternity of her child acknowledged by Jeremy.

The test could be a ploy to force Jeremy to pay child support.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

I don't necessarily think there is foot dragging on the wedding. Maybe they want a spring wedding? Maybe they want to wait until Lisa is old enough to walk so she can be a flower girl? Maybe it's none of our concern and not related to the case.

While it is not something I would do, I just don't see how it relates to the case.

I do agree it'd be nice to know Jeremy's relationship w/his ex, his child and his child's age and relationship w/Lisa.

The only reason I can think of that it could potentially relate to this case is if they aren't able to get married due to him still being married to an ex (and going through a divorce) or something of that nature..and the ex would then have a pretty good motive to get revenge on the family.

 

[mrsu]

I'm wondering if mom had an FB page (these days who doesn't). The reason I say this is because I remember a case we reviewed for one of my CJ classes. A woman (who wanted a baby) befriended a mother of a newborn on the internet. Longer story short they conversed for a few weeks, the mother invited this woman to come over, went to get her something to drink or to the bathroom, came back and the woman and her baby were gone.

People have a tendency to post way too much info on social networking sites (including pics and things like "hubby starts new job tonight...") for people to see and take advantage of.

Just a theory...

Yes, she does. And it's set to private. Her friends are not visible.