MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #5

[luvbeaches]

I hope others have visited thehinkymeter.com and read today's story regarding discrepancies. If the truth is the "truth" there should never be discrepancies. And mom can't fill in the gaps in the timeline? Are you kidding me?

The phones are a BIG RED FLAG for me. Why would anyone after a baby stop to take THREE cell phones?? Those phones had something to do with communication between Lisa's mother (if father truly has been cleared) and someone that she doesn't want anyone to know about.

Three people, in addition to baby Lisa, were sleeping in the house and not one heard any disturbance? I don't buy it. You've got a sick baby in another room and you don't have a door open to listen for her or have a monitor in the room.

There is so much hinky here that it is starting to smell.

There should be no discrepancies. Sometimes you remember more details about something, but the basics don't change.

The cell phone thing is crazy. The lights are questionable. The front door open - how convenient. The first thing that caught my eye was the clothing description. It could be nothing, or it could be something. It said the baby was wearing shorts and a top (yes, I know this could be short jammies, etc, or she could have been put to bed in her clothes). I just thought that was odd. The baby was sick and she was in clothes? I am not judging the mother's parenting skills, but rather the first thing I thought was the baby was never in bed. The description was what she was wearing that evening.

I could be wrong but that's just something crossed my mind. I hope they find the baby and I hope that parents had nothing to do with her disappearance or know who was involved. The first person that is looked at as a suspect is the last person to see the baby. That's the mom. I wonder if the older boys were able to tell the investigators anything, if they were interviewed?

 

[chasing.halos]

Regarding the stray kitten, could it have been that mom, baby and other kiddos knocked on some neighbors doors to ask if the kitty belonged to them, perhaps introducing themselves, chatting a little with them?

I know I am grasping at straws here but I have a very strong gut feeling that she is close. (MOO)

 

[cindysue]

Well the way i look at it is ...if the parents are guilty ..why then release the neighbors dog..unless that was a completely unrelated event.

 

[justbeachy]

All I know is that I'd better get a "nanny cam" or something for my house in case God Forbid (!) anything ever happens here. I'm a SAHM and I rarely have anyone other than my children who could confirm an alibi. If I just record my house/bedrooms 24/7 and then have it overwrite every day, I'll always have proof!

Just kidding!! (sort of!...it's scary to think that sleeping alone could be considered a "gap" in a timeline...)

 

[Hazel]

My husband works 7pm-3:30AM at post office, and gets home at 4am, for example. But as I said, I am having trouble imagining her being comfortable enough to fall into such a deep sleep if she was not used to him being gone those hours; I'm still not after almost 20 years.

I had been thinking the same. If it was his first day(night) at work, I would have checked all windows and doors twice, to make sure they were closed/locked.

Not sure if they think the 'abductor' opened the computer room window in order to hand the baby to an accomplice waiting outside, and then left by the front door. The big question is how could the front door have been left unlocked?

Do we know the exact time the father left for work? And did he take a cellphone with him? That would make four cellphones.

 

[mrsu]

Was it maternal or paternal grandfather that had all those pictures of Lisa on his FB account?

That was Debbie's dad

 

[lcookster]

Wow- some folks think the parents are releasing these tid bits? We all are looking for new information and sometimes tidbits will do. The cell phone information was told to the cops the first night, not 'new information' released later. A relative of a relative tells a friend and so then the stories start to come down the pike. I don't think they are contrived to elicit sympathy. I would think any caring parent would be in a total state of shock- and the mother has a sick baby and two other little kids and the husband works and I am sure she was exhausted and continues to be. It's very hard to say what I would think or do in a similar situation. I am going to continue to look at the parents as victims of a crime and wait to see if any evidence arises that makes them POI. I like sleuthing but.....

 

[cluciano63]

I would have been awake all night to make sure no one rolled over on the new kitten, lol...only half-joking...

 

[justbeachy]

There should be no discrepancies. Sometimes you remember more details about something, but the basics don't change.

The cell phone thing is crazy. The lights are questionable. The front door open - how convenient. The first thing that caught my eye was the clothing description. It could be nothing, or it could be something. It said the baby was wearing shorts and a top (yes, I know this could be short jammies, etc, or she could have been put to bed in her clothes). I just thought that was odd. The baby was sick and she was in clothes? I am not judging the mother's parenting skills, but rather the first thing I thought was the baby was never in bed. The description was what she was wearing that evening.

I could be wrong but that's just something crossed my mind. I hope they find the baby and I hope that parents had nothing to do with her disappearance or know who was involved. The first person that is looked at as a suspect is the last person to see the baby. That's the mom. I wonder if the older boys were able to tell the investigators anything, if they were interviewed?

BBM

Convenient. That's the word that keeps popping in my head regarding this case. It was apparently the "perfect storm" of convenient occurrences. I don't like that. Not one bit.

 

[mamacita]

OK i'm trying my hardest to get caught up with this thread... but it seems by the time i'm done with 1 page, 3 more have been added! ughhhhh

anyway, i wanted to post a few things that i have in my head before i forget them (as i'm still reading).

1. i was told that the man & baby sighting was believed to be "debunked". do we know if this is still a potential lead? i've seen it posted after i was told it was debunked.

2. do we know what time JI went to work? (just wondering how long mom was alone with the kids)

3. do we know where this job was?

4. have the roads and surrounding areas on the way to that work location been searched?

5. im curious about the phone situation in that if this was JI's first night on the job, i would think he'd want to have a cell phone on him in case the family needed to get a hold of him.

6. why would a perp go into a home where lights were still on? how would he/she know for a fact that no one was awake?


i want to believe these parents are innocent just as much as the next person. i just have these few questions.

back to reading

 

[JeannaT]

BBM

Convenient. That's the word that keeps popping in my head regarding this case. It was apparently the "perfect storm" of convenient occurrences. I don't like that. Not one bit.

Think of Jessica Lunsford when you start to think this can't happen. It can. And does.

 

[Shelby1]

Re-posting timeline

Monday October 3, 2011

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.

UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.

3620 block of North Lister 64117

CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011

Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.

UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG


~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

_____________________________________________________________________

​

Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.

Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz


Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)




http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.

**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”

**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.

**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.

***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...scussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4


Originally Posted by BeanE [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7196439#post7196439"]

[/ame]--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM

Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM

Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM


http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg


"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG


Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3


Friday October 7, 2011

(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago


**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.


Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19070&d=1317999122

**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.

 

[mrye4709]

That is what blew my mind last night. Whether or not the parents had stopped cooperating, the only result of the presser by Young is to turn off people who might help find little Lisa.

If there weren't posters going up before, can you imagine now? "why bother, she is dead, the parents did it" is the underlying feeling. or "police say parents aren't cooperating , its a waste of time"

People make extra efforts to help but not if LE implies its useless to do so.

That's what I was worried about. In my opinion the parents don't need to be saying they don't care what people think, it is very important what people think. I do understand why they said it, so many are convinced they did do something. I hope people are still watching for this baby..

 

[Duke Fan4]

FOX NEWS CHANNEL NEWS ALERT TOP OF THE HOUR

Piece of evidence causing focus on parents

 

[oh_gal]

If it was proved that he was at work and has a solid alibi, they may not think it's necessary for him to take a polygraph.
I don't doubt the mom's story of them telling her she failed. That's a scare tactic, sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. LDT's are not admissible in court anyway, they are merely an investigative tool. And no one can be forced to take a LDT, it is entirely voluntary. Plus as someone else mentioned, it can be inconclusive and still not mean they failed.
IMO, putting a distraught parent through hours and hours of interrogation is not always to their advantage. It will often cause the parents to clam up and stop cooperating and they are less likely to open up and admit anything if they are guilty. And if they're innocent, it just puts a bad light on LE and makes them look like bullies.

I know next to nothing about polygraphs, so I'll apologize in advance if this sounds stupid. OK...they decide not to give dad a polygraph because he can account for his whereabouts, but wouldn't they also want to ask him if he had any knowledge of what could have happened to the baby, or any knowledge of anyone else who might have reason to do this?

I get that having him have an alibi accounts for his whereabouts...but that only seems like part of what they could have asked him in a polygraph.

 

[justbeachy]

Think of Jessica Lunsford when you start to think this can't happen. It can. And does.

Never said it couldn't happen. Those words have never been spoken (or typed) by me.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

It would be interesting to find out which of their friends (personal) have NOT called them since the baby has been abducted. That may be a clue as to who they know that is not acting "in the norm" or who may have taken the baby. If the baby was in fact abducted, I am pretty sure it will come out that she was taken by someone that knew the family in some capacity.

 

[Renea]

Breaking news coming up on Fox

 

[Cortne]

Bumping this up.

Thank you for the link. Until there is more info I am taking all my judgments back of the parents. Not sure if the mother is crying over the kidnapping or an accident. That video is def heart breaking. jmo

 

[saba]

FOX NEWS CHANNEL NEWS ALERT TOP OF THE HOUR

Piece of evidence causing focus on parents

link?