MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7

[elepher50]

That also makes sense to me. Also, his facial affect is lot more low-key and non-emotional, and just his face to me is less convincing than hers. But what concerns me more than this vague intuition is that she has a history of raising children - her other two are fine. He's the one for whom this is his first child, and who might somehow snap with the child. Did he ask for nights to get away from the baby's crying?

All that said, I also think it's possible that the police there are just incompetent. It's easier to pressure a woman saying, "You did it! Admit it!" than to go out and investigate the case. I've always felt for people under suspicion because I have a lousy memory and probably couldn't tell you what I did last night, nor would I have others to give me an alibi.

One boy belongs to Jeremy and one boy belongs to Debbie and Lisa was theirs together.

 

[marge_rita]

Not trying to be argumentative at all...but none of us really know what would go through a kidnapper's mind. If there was the thought that it might delay calling for help I can see stealing the phones. It's really no different than cutting the phone lines in the days before cell phones.

There have been several examples posted here about crimes committed where the perps also took the victims cell phones to possibly slow down a call for help. It's become very common.
The phones were in plain sight on the counter, so it would be easy and very quick to stash them in pants pockets.

IMHO...it's not in the realm of impossible, so I have to consider that it could have happened.

Trust me, I've been on here all day and night.
Like others EM I'm discussing and speculating.

If I post what I honetly think happened -as of tonight anyway-I think the baby was harmed at home and the parents threw away, hid, did something with the cell phones.

imo

 

[liz b.]

I would hope so but we were discussing why they left the bumper pad and comforter in the crib. That should have been tested also.

I think everything in the house was tested,dusted for prints and so on, I remember reading that LE was doing that at the very beginning. I would be interested to know how many prints there were that could not be matched as being from the immediate family or any known aquaintances...MOO We haven't heard of any. MOO

 

[3doglady]

Unless it wasn't the actual crime scene and evidence of a crime was found in another part of the house.

But it would still need to be ruled out. A good defense attorney will have a field day accusing LE of negligence. Plus if there's evidence of a crime scene in the house I really think we would have heard something about it, with the other leaks coming from LE.

 

[CHICANA]

Depends on the job and how much more the pay is for that shift.

If Jeremy asked for it, and on the very first night he does so, the baby disappears, I find it suspicious that two unusual things (working graveyard, baby disappearing) happened on that same night.

So it was either one or both parents, a friend or family member, or someone who had been casing the house.

 

[EllaMae]

That also makes sense to me. Also, his facial affect is lot more low-key and non-emotional, and just his face to me is less convincing than hers. But what concerns me more than this vague intuition is that she has a history of raising children - her other two are fine. He's the one for whom this is his first child, and who might somehow snap with the child. Did he ask for nights to get away from the baby's crying?

All that said, I also think it's possible that the police there are just incompetent. It's easier to pressure a woman saying, "You did it! Admit it!" than to go out and investigate the case. I've always felt for people under suspicion because I have a lousy memory and probably couldn't tell you what I did last night, nor would I have others to give me an alibi.

The 8 year old boy is actually Jeremy's son from a previous relationship.

Debbie has only 1 other child, a 6 year old son, in addition to Lisa.

 

[grandmaj]

I don't know. Not locking the door screams to me. I lived alone for over 20 years. Then I remarried and always had my husband here at night and he locks up the doors each and every night. When he went into the hospital 2 years ago I actually was in a panic living in this house for the first time without him here at night. I wasn't comfortable at all and checked the locks numerous times.

If this was the first time J worked nights I would think it wouldn't be an incidental to lock the door but more of a real thought that hey before I go to bed I have to secure the house J isn't here.

 

[marge_rita]

Which brings up another point. What good would taking 3 cell phones do for the kidnapper if there was a landline phone at the home as well?

I don't think it does any good.

imo

 

[3doglady]

I think everything in the house was tested,dusted for prints and so on, I remember reading that LE was doing that at the very beginning. I would be interested to know how many prints there were that could not be matched as being from the immediate family or any known aquaintances...MOO We haven't heard of any. MOO

The crib bumper pads, comforter and bed skirt are still on the crib in the picture. They were not taken for testing.

 

[redfish]

it's a baby bathtub. we had the same one for our daughter. it's not very big. i think my daughter had outgrown it by the time she was just over a year... but we kept using it for a while because i just never went to get a bigger one. but if baby L is tall/big for her age, then they might already be using a bigger tub. i'm guessing this pic is from before baby lisa was born. plus - we keep our daughters bathtub near or in the bathroom, not in her bedroom. it's the type that comes with a newborn net type thing. i think we used that for a few months, then moved on to using the tub without the net. it looks to me that the net is inside the tub in the crib (but i cant tell if it's actually set up or just sitting in the tub (how it came packaged).

anywho - FWIW, this looks to be a before-baby pic. not only the tub thing, but with the mattress being up so high. the crib is very similar to my daughters. they probably just had it up that high until baby L became a little more mobile (rolling over, etc). i don't think we need to worry about it. i think testing the bedding was probably one of the first things LE would have done.

You are describing the scene as I saw it. This pic looks like a "before" picture. I have several of those from right before the birth marking the day that we were prepared for our new baby!

 

[Kakidoll]

Tell me if this link doesn't work. It shows that he is the owner & the last sale date was 11/1/2002. I thought the same thing, no way could I have bought a house at that age. I think it's Deborah that hasn't lived there long. I also wonder why the home phone is registered to a male -last name Netz instead of Jeremy. Maybe someone else had been living there ? Got kicked out & still had a key ?

http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEstateDetail.jsp?parcelid=18115001400500

Netz is Debbies maiden name, isn't it???

 

[AnonymousD]

Tell me if this link doesn't work. It shows that he is the owner & the last sale date was 11/1/2002. I thought the same thing, no way could I have bought a house at that age. I think it's Deborah that hasn't lived there long. I also wonder why the home phone is registered to a male -last name Netz instead of Jeremy. Maybe someone else had been living there ? Got kicked out & still had a key ?

http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEstateDetail.jsp?parcelid=18115001400500

Netz is mom's maiden name.

 

[3doglady]

I don't think it does any good.

imo

That goes both ways. What would be the point in the mom getting rid of them? LE could easily get the phone records.

 

[CatFancier]

I don't know. Not locking the door screams to me. I lived alone for over 20 years. Then I remarried and always had my husband here at night and he locks up the doors each and every night. When he went into the hospital 2 years ago I actually was in a panic living in this house for the first time without him here at night. I wasn't comfortable at all and checked the locks numerous times.

If this was the first time J worked nights I would think it wouldn't be an incidental to lock the door but more of a real thought that hey before I go to bed I have to secure the house J isn't here.

Agreed. I'm a single mom and admit to getting distracted on occasion (okay, often). Two mornings ago, when I went to open the door to go to work, I found it unlocked and knew I had left it that way. Sometimes it just happens and we (me and the other bumbling people out there) say a prayer of thanks.

 

[3doglady]

You are describing the scene as I saw it. This pic looks like a "before" picture. I have several of those from right before the birth marking the day that we were prepared for our new baby!

Lisa's hand and footprint pictures are on the wall so it had to be after her birth.

 

[liz b.]

Yes, of course the parents' fingerprints will be on them. They were their phones, after all.

And the prints of the phone thief would be there too,right ? MOO If the phones were stolen ? MOO

 

[HatesSociopaths]

That goes both ways. What would be the point in the mom getting rid of them? LE could easily get the phone records.

It appears she said the reason the kidnapper took the phones was so they could not call 911. I was a little confused about this - the report said something about her waving a cop down in the driveway?

 

[dovebar]

The five year old is her biological son. The 8 year old is his biological son. From how I interpret the court records (kinda like dot to dot), he proved paternity in 2005 and has had custody. I think they both have been primary caregivers to one child; he raising one longer than she. MOO.

Thanks for the clarification.

Can any catch me up on what happened with the neighbor's tip? The couple seemed very sure that they saw Lisa with a man one street over in the middle of the night.

 

[secretagent]

At my house this time is referred to as "the witching hour" :crazy:

Ditto, this is when my sweet angle turns into demon spawn.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Lisa's hand and footprint pictures are on the wall so it had to be after her birth.

It was reported that it was taken today before the interview with the parents for tonight's telecast.