GUILTY MO - Nicholas, 35, & Justin Diemel, 24, brothers missing, Clinton County, 21 July 2019 *ARREST* #2

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Great questions. Add to them WHEN was the trailer purchased? Was it picked up or delivered? By whom? Can it be proved the tub was on the trailer when it left Missouri? How did JN get the tub off the property before the search began or hide it so well that it was the one thing on the property that the searchers could not find? How did JN get it on the trailer from jail? Had the remains been burned? Had the flesh been removed some other way? Does the dirt match the dirt from JN property?
bolding mine

Maybe JGN's mother assisted him ?
Other mothers have helped their sons no matter what they've done.

Meaning this respectfully ; because yes life is complicated and the amount owed sounds more than any cattle being purchased or owed money from a sale.
And I think it was a young weaned group.
So, no --this was not just about some cows.
Imo.

From your answer to my post... are you thinking a drug deal ?
Meth ?
Weed ?
Heroin or prescription drugs ?
Were the victims potentially doing business with dangerous people ?
 
Great questions. Add to them WHEN was the trailer purchased? Was it picked up or delivered? By whom? Can it be proved the tub was on the trailer when it left Missouri? How did JN get the tub off the property before the search began or hide it so well that it was the one thing on the property that the searchers could not find? How did JN get it on the trailer from jail? Had the remains been burned? Had the flesh been removed some other way? Does the dirt match the dirt from JN property?
I have a friend in the MO area. Apparantly JN had a site off the farm that he stored trailers and other equipment at.
My questions now extend to...
IF JN burned ND and JD in separate barrels before adding them to the manure pit, then how did one of the brothers obviously not burned beyond recognition, and identifiable as human end up in the stock trailer?
And then it leads to my next question...
IF LE found 2 crushed barrels... Who is the possible third victim here?
 
I know more than I can say. I am not at liberty to tell how or why? Sorry!
And yes, I know how lame that sounds!!!

I will pull my punches and take my chances.

As far as I can tell every piece of paper and electronic evidence that is in the public sphere and that is acceptable to the TOS of this site has already been linked to.

I cannot find any mention of the $250,000 owed to the brothers by JN until October 23. It then appears in the Probable Cause Affidavit stating that "Jack Diemel said his sons were coming to Missouri to retrieve a $250,000 check from Joey Nelson for cattle."

Multiple news reports on October 23 & 24 contained the following:

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — The Latest on charges filed against a Missouri farmer in the killing of two brothers from Wisconsin (all times local):

1:15 p.m.

An employee of two slain Wisconsin brothers says he believes a Missouri cattleman promised to give the men money to lure them to his farm so he could kill them.

Twenty-five-year-old Garland Nelson, of Braymer, was charged Wednesday with two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of 35-year-old Nick Diemel and 24-year-old Justin Diemel, of Shawano County, Wisconsin.

Rob Chubb managed the feeder cattle side of the business operated by the brothers.

Chubb says he is angry, but that he knew from the day the brothers went missing that Nelson was involved. He says the brothers had done business with Nelson in January, and that Nelson owed them money.

Court documents indicate Nelson owed the Diemel family $250,000. Authorities haven’t said the brothers were lured to the property.


I have not seen any actual documentation from either Diemels Livestock or from J4s concerning the $250,000 figure other than the father's claim that JN owed them $250,000 for cattle. I would love to see the books of both operations but that won't come out until trial most likely. My hunch is that the two sets of books won't jive on the amount owed or to whom. Others who know the cattle business have openly questioned that amount of debt on the number of cattle that we know were involved. There is enough evidence in the public arena to know that JN played fast and loose with his business dealings. He not only owed Foster (in Kansas) for cattle but also for a metal building and refrigerated trailers. It is very likely that JN had other side deal or deals not on the official books. Some likely with ND & JD. If the $250,000 were about cattle it had to be more than those involved in the Foster deal. Since some of his known side deals were not specifically about cattle, it is possible that not all of the $250,000 was about cattle.

With $250,000 missing I would say that there is probably a money trail to be followed. I am not sure exactly where it will lead.

I can give you some dots to connect for yourself if you care to. These do not prove anything, but offer a possibility. Public record connects this story from the Green Bay area to Milwaukee to Kansas City to Eastern Kansas. If you literally carry that line from Milwaukee through Kansas City on a little farther south you end up in Oklahoma City. Ask two questions. What other business besides cattle has all three locations in common and could account for a $250,000 dispute that ended in murder? Are there any news reports on the internet that connect the two businesses?

I cannot say with certainty that either ND & JD or JN were in a business other than cattle. I cannot say that they weren't either. I believe what we know AND what is not clear both lend themselves to the possibility somebody was into something besides cattle.

I have now very unsatisfactorily answered your questions.

I do want to be absolutely clear about a couple of things. You are absolutely right in that, no matter what, the murderer needs to be held accountable to the full extent of the law. IMO JN is guilty of some part in this. Possibly everything that he has been accused of. I hope that the whole truth comes out and he gets everything that he deserves for everything that he did.

But, as I have stated before and probably will again, this story did not begin with July 20 & 21. Something led up to someone killing two people. We need to know the backstory on all parties involved before we know the truth. It may be as simple as the story told by the affidavit - A crime of passion or desperation. With the FBI, USDA, US Postal Service Inspector General, as well as local and state LEOs involved in the investigation it may be a lot more complex.

No amount of backstory will bring back two dead men. Nor will it heal two shattered families. Justice needs to be served. But the full context may shed a whole new light on the events of July 21. Depending on what that context is, we may not get the whole story for years, if ever.
Thank you very much!
 
bolding mine

Maybe JGN's mother assisted him ?
Other mothers have helped their sons no matter what they've done.

Meaning this respectfully ; because yes life is complicated and the amount owed sounds more than any cattle being purchased or owed money from a sale.
And I think it was a young weaned group.
So, no --this was not just about some cows.
Imo.

From your answer to my post... are you thinking a drug deal ?
Meth ?
Weed ?
Heroin or prescription drugs ?
Were the victims potentially doing business with dangerous people ?

You voiced what I knew a lot of people would be thinking about TSF. That would be an easy conclusion to jump to. I just really do not think she was involved in the murders or the coverup. Reports say she was on a family vacation the weekend of he murder. I could be wrong. My role in this forum to this point has been to try to add balance to the discussion along with insights from my perspective. I have to allow for the fact that, since life is complicated, I may be wrong. We are all just theorizing at this point.

As to a drug deal gone bad, it sure looks possible. Severed heads and burned bodies is a signature of the Sinaloa cartel. As is the use of acid to dissolve bodies. (Thinking of the unknown liquid used besides diesel fuel) On the other hand, it could be JN trying to set it up to look that way. I am not sue he is that cunning. Maybe.

This find may be a real break in the case. It may also really complicate the investigation, depending on forensics.
 
You voiced what I knew a lot of people would be thinking about TSF. That would be an easy conclusion to jump to. I just really do not think she was involved in the murders or the coverup. Reports say she was on a family vacation the weekend of he murder. I could be wrong. My role in this forum to this point has been to try to add balance to the discussion along with insights from my perspective. I have to allow for the fact that, since life is complicated, I may be wrong. We are all just theorizing at this point.

As to a drug deal gone bad, it sure looks possible. Severed heads and burned bodies is a signature of the Sinaloa cartel. As is the use of acid to dissolve bodies. (Thinking of the unknown liquid used besides diesel fuel) On the other hand, it could be JN trying to set it up to look that way. I am not sue he is that cunning. Maybe.

This find may be a real break in the case. It may also really complicate the investigation, depending on forensics.
I don't think it's fair to bring in any drug speculation at this time or any time unless you're privy to information or it has been mentioned by LE and you can link that information. It's even sad to think anyone would pull something like that out of their hat.
 
Hey thanks for the info. I had missed that it was Foster who first threw out the number.... JMO
@Whassup :) sbm No prob, easy to miss. To remember that $ amt, I had to search the Wayback Machine in My Brain (so much useless info there in the WBMiMB, going back several decades to grade school and now clogging up the place ;) ). Then had to dig around more for the link.


And besides, who knows whether Foster accurately repeated the $ amt. And whether the Diemels stated the $ amt correctly? Could have been exaggerated? jmo.
 
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Nelson's Felony Conviction. Did They Know?
....Allowing JN, with his background, to have possession of $250,000 worth of cattle or anything else seems foolish for prudent businessmen. JMO
@Whassup :) sbm
Would seem foolish for Prudent Business Ppl/PBP who were aware of Nelson's crim conviction.


And would seem well, unusual, that PBP would not find Nelson's felony conviction thru simple internet searches, before doing business w him. Seems pre-deal, PBP would also have found his bankruptcy filings as well and taken that into consideration. Also property records and more info online.

That's what puzzled me from day one, were they not aware of Nelson's crim history? If so, why not? And if they were aware, why do bus w him?
If PBP had been/were still successfully using this business model (not sure I understand what is it, how it is supposed to work) w several/many other entities (farms, farmers, or ?), could they not find more ppl to do bus w, ppl w no felony convictions? Did they make on site visits before making the deals w Nelson? W others?

Must be biiiiiig gaps in my grasp of the type of business they were operating; I do not get it. Or as you @Whassup suggested, perhaps they were running an entirely altogether different type of business. Perhaps, a business in which criminal conviction for fraud is not seen as a detriment? jmo
 
The trailer's title should be able to talk and say where it has been.
@Turnuptime :) Sorry, not sure I'm following idea of title talking and saying "were it [trailer] has been."

Title shows address for owner. Is that what you mean, title might show Nelson as previous owner?
Or about which highways the trailer had traveled? Or something else? TiA.
 
@Turnuptime :) Sorry, not sure I'm following idea of title talking and saying "were it [trailer] has been."

Title shows address for owner. Is that what you mean, title might show Nelson as previous owner?
Or about which highways the trailer had traveled? Or something else? TiA.

The title should have a history of previous owners and the dates of sale transactions. Nothing like the black box in the rental truck but investigators should have a pretty good timeline now. The trailer and newly discovered evidence could help answer questions about who else might be involved and how.
 
Nelson's Felony Conviction. Did They Know?

@Whassup :) sbm
Would seem foolish for Prudent Business Ppl/PBP who were aware of Nelson's crim conviction.


And would seem well, unusual, that PBP would not find Nelson's felony conviction thru simple internet searches, before doing business w him. Seems pre-deal, PBP would also have found his bankruptcy filings as well and taken that into consideration. Also property records and more info online.

That's what puzzled me from day one, were they not aware of Nelson's crim history? If so, why not? And if they were aware, why do bus w him?
If PBP had been/were still successfully using this business model (not sure I understand what is it, how it is supposed to work) w several/many other entities (farms, farmers, or ?), could they not find more ppl to do bus w, ppl w no felony convictions? Did they make on site visits before making the deals w Nelson? W others?

Must be biiiiiig gaps in my grasp of the type of business they were operating; I do not get it. Or as you @Whassup suggested, perhaps they were running an entirely altogether different type of business. Perhaps, a business in which criminal conviction for fraud is not seen as a detriment? jmo
lavender bolding mine

Excellent post, @al66pine .
You answered some of your own questions and mine.
Hopefully justice is coming soon.
 
I don't think it's fair to bring in any drug speculation at this time or any time unless you're privy to information or it has been mentioned by LE and you can link that information. It's even sad to think anyone would pull something like that out of their hat.
My thoughts exactly. I'm glad you said it. Thank you
 
I don't think it's fair to bring in any drug speculation at this time or any time unless you're privy to information or it has been mentioned by LE and you can link that information. It's even sad to think anyone would pull something like that out of their hat.

I apologize if you were offended. I understand and have tried to be very cautious about my thoughts. This is a site for civil discussion and information sharing and I want to keep within those bounds. So, understanding the high emotions in this case I have not confronted anyone posting speculation about TSF's involvement in this matter. I have in my own posts stated that I did not think she was involved. I have noticed that you have not expressed concern about such posts implicating her in this crime.

Fair is fair and she has not been charged or named as a person of interest in this case. Caution should also be used in throwing accusations against her or her family unless and until they have been mentioned by LE. Agreed?

This is a discussion driven by speculation. Hopefully, informed speculation but speculation none the less. Remains found in a trailer from Missouri rightfully causes speculation about who owned the trailer and how the remains got there.

Details about the disposal of the bodies also rightfully leads to speculation. The Probable Cause Affidavit [https://fox11digital.com/news/PDFs/Garland-Joey-Nelson-probable-cause-document.pdf] says that it is believed that JN acted alone or in concert with others. JN believed the bodies to be those of Nick and Justin. They were burned using Diesel and an unknown liquid. DNA was not conclusive about the identity of the remains and dental records are not mentioned. Now we have a reason to believe that one of those skulls was removed and ended up in Nebraska. LE opened this up to speculation by saying what they believed (speculated) but were not certain of. Who were these possible others? What were their ties to JN or ND & JD? What was this unknown liquid? If others were involved, who and why? What kind of person commits murder, removes heads and burns bodies? A monster like JN - possibly. Monsters with other kinds of motives - possibly.

I do not know if JN acted alone or with others. I do not know if this was a crime about cattle, money or something else. I do not know if JN was the cause of this event or one caught up in it. But without each of us widening our field of possibilities and at the same time, admitting that we may be wrong in what we believe to be true, we will never come closer to the whole truth.
 
I apologize if you were offended. I understand and have tried to be very cautious about my thoughts. This is a site for civil discussion and information sharing and I want to keep within those bounds. So, understanding the high emotions in this case I have not confronted anyone posting speculation about TSF's involvement in this matter. I have in my own posts stated that I did not think she was involved. I have noticed that you have not expressed concern about such posts implicating her in this crime.

Fair is fair and she has not been charged or named as a person of interest in this case. Caution should also be used in throwing accusations against her or her family unless and until they have been mentioned by LE. Agreed?

This is a discussion driven by speculation. Hopefully, informed speculation but speculation none the less. Remains found in a trailer from Missouri rightfully causes speculation about who owned the trailer and how the remains got there.

Details about the disposal of the bodies also rightfully leads to speculation. The Probable Cause Affidavit [https://fox11digital.com/news/PDFs/Garland-Joey-Nelson-probable-cause-document.pdf] says that it is believed that JN acted alone or in concert with others. JN believed the bodies to be those of Nick and Justin. They were burned using Diesel and an unknown liquid. DNA was not conclusive about the identity of the remains and dental records are not mentioned. Now we have a reason to believe that one of those skulls was removed and ended up in Nebraska. LE opened this up to speculation by saying what they believed (speculated) but were not certain of. Who were these possible others? What were their ties to JN or ND & JD? What was this unknown liquid? If others were involved, who and why? What kind of person commits murder, removes heads and burns bodies? A monster like JN - possibly. Monsters with other kinds of motives - possibly.

I do not know if JN acted alone or with others. I do not know if this was a crime about cattle, money or something else. I do not know if JN was the cause of this event or one caught up in it. But without each of us widening our field of possibilities and at the same time, admitting that we may be wrong in what we believe to be true, we will never come closer to the whole truth.
LBM

It's entirely fair to speculate and that is what this forum is intended to do. To post theories.
In no way does the possibility that the victims were involved in a business deal mean that it wasn't cattle.
A previous poster here in this thread commented that it was too large of an amount for the weaned calves they were owed money for.
So, what was the amount for ?

Many people have other interests in life and this does not mean their reputation is tarnished or that they are "bad" people.
Hardly.
And no one has stated such.

And if it was a business deal gone wrong-- the victims still need and deserve justice !
No one here disputes that.
 
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The $250,000.00 amount wasn't sitting right in my head, so I did some research, and looked over Foster's interviews,but that's a whole nother issue for me.
ND and JD father reported the brothers went to MO for a 250,000.00 check. Foster said ND and JN had a separate agreement and that put 100 calves at JNs. According to Diemel Livestock, calves sell for $50.00 a head in groups of 30 or more. So that is $5000.00 for alleged 100 calves.
Now let's assume that all 100 calves made it to "weaning weight" which according to the USDA is between 7 and 8 months old, and weighing 500 to 700 lbs. If sold they are sold per cwt. Which means that at market prices now 100 weaning weight calves would only bring in $104,300.00. Prices do fluctuate throughout the year. But according to Foster, JN and ND started in January. By the end of July, the calves would have just been at weaning weight.
We know this didn't happen.
And Foster said in an interview that he bought 131 calves and received 35 back. Then states he assumes the other 96 are dead. Well he did not have 96 missing calves, there were 76 missing calves.
I feel there was something shady involving Foster and JN.
And also in my opinion, I feel TSF returned the day LEO was speaking with JN, because JN told TSF his plan and she wanted to establish a clear alibi by going to Branson with family members. IMO, she was aware of what was happening and what the out come was going to be. I feel very large parts of some people's stories are missing. Just like the numbers aren't quite adding up.
I spoke with a couple dairy farmers in my area and they said there is no way on gods green earth ANYONE would pay 250,000.00 for 100 bottle fed calves. And even at auction they would not receive that kind of money... Somethings off.
LBM
This again. ^^^
I knew someone had mentioned the dollar amount being hinky or 'off'.

It does not matter what the brothers were doing in MO or what lifestyle choices they had.
It matters that the person or people who murdered them need to answer for their crimes.
The sad part of this is it may be impossible to determine a cod with what is left of their remains.
Scary to think of.
People in MO know something, and are clamming up. Shame on them.
 

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