MO - Off-duty firefighter stops man armed w/ 100 rounds of ammo at S Springfield Walmart, 8 Aug 2019

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Inthedetails said:
I think he was mad at Walmart for not selling him a certain weapon so he went into the store with his gun with the intention of proving that Walmart was hypocritical? That doesn't make much sense, but I think that is what he was doing.

I think it was smart to pull the fire alarm to calmly get people to exit quickly. No one will fault the manager for that move - it is not the same as shouting fire in a theater, imo.

jmo
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But he literally didn’t do anything wrong. You can speculate endlessly about what you think his intentions were, but the fact is he didn’t break any laws.
 
TristanP said:
But he literally didn’t do anything wrong. You can speculate endlessly about what you think his intentions were, but the fact is he didn’t break any laws.
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I don't know the laws in Missouri, it's a constitutional carry state so probably not unless he had some illegal equipment.
 
Inthedetails said:
That was my point.
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I guess that common decency szsxqm
TristanP said:
As far as I can tell, there are no legal grounds to stand on here. They’re going to end up being sued for wrongful arrest because he wasn’t breaking any law whatsoever.

It’s a perfect way to prove a point of how absurd and ridiculous the laws are that someone can do something like this completely within the law.
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Well, his actions m bring laws
Rocky1 said:
I agree. This is going to get dicey.
Here's the statute on making a terrorist threat in Missouri.
2016 Missouri Revised Statutes :: TITLE XXXVIII CRIMES AND PUNISHMENT; PEACE OFFICERS AND PUBLIC DEFENDERS (556-600) :: Chapter 574 Offenses Against Public Order :: Section 574.120 Making a terrorist threat, second degree--penalty.
From the video I posted, this guy was carrying that rifle properly. You're supposed to either carry it the way he is, or have it strapped over your back. It wasn't up against his shoulder like he was getting ready to fire.
That takes care of subsection one. Where is the "implied threat?"
Subsection 2 does not apply.
Subsection 3 does not apply.
If the guy was not breaking any law, then one may argue that the manager should be charged with making a terrorist threat by pulling the fire alarm and causing panic.
Remember, you can't yell fire in a movie theater if there's no fire.
Subsection 3 applies.
(3) Causes a false belief or fear that an incident has occurred or that a condition exists involving danger to life.)
Here's the exception. It is also marked subsection 3.
(3. No offense is committed under this section by a person acting in good faith with the purpose to prevent harm.)
One could argue that the reason he was armed is because after El Paso, he was acting in good faith with the purpose to prevent harm to himself and the public from a real shooter entering Walmart and opening fire.
If he didn't break any law, is it his fault that the public may not be aware of the law, and what he was doing was perfectly legal?
If what the fireman did was acceptable, would it have been just as acceptable if he saw the fireman carrying a gun and held him at gunpoint?
One thing I think is safe to say. By next week, you'll be seeing signs at the door of Walmart saying "no guns allowed." IMO.
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Can you supply a link to the video of him in walmart? thanks
 
Boxer said:
I guess that common decency szsxqm


Well, his actions m bring laws


Can you supply a link to the video of him in walmart? thanks
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I don't have a video of him in Walmart. I only have the video that I posted earlier where he's outside with his rifle strapped across his chest. That, and this article stating what the witness' said., that he had the rifle across his chest.
He has video that he took with his phone. I think it would be rather hard to take video of yourself when one hand is holding the stock of a rifle, and the other is on the trigger. Would you agree?
Can you post any information that states he was pointing the rifle? Thanks.
Armed Man Who Caused Panic at Missouri Walmart Said It Was 2nd Amendment Test, Authorities Say
 
TristanP said:
But he literally didn’t do anything wrong. You can speculate endlessly about what you think his intentions were, but the fact is he didn’t break any laws.
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MOO he didn't anything illegal.

If a man showed up in black boots, a bucket of tar and a mop few would question he came to fix the roof. Same here.
If fixing roofs killed people by the dozens in seconds, yes they would all be terrified.
 
Boxer said:
MOO he didn't anything illegal.

If a man showed up in black boots, a bucket of tar and a mop few would question he came to fix the roof. Same here.
If fixing roofs killed people by the dozens in seconds, yes they would all be terrified.
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For the sake of conversation....
If a man dressed up in a clown costume showed up at a McDonalds, would anyone question he came there to entertain kids?
If so then why can someone be charged with a terrorism threat for doing just that?
With the exception of a few states, (like LA, and the Commonwealth of Va, where mask laws are on the books from the 1920's due to the KKK, or a few city ordinance's making it unlawful to do so,) it's not illegal to wear clown costumes either.
I have yet to see case law where someone is successfully prosecuted for wearing one. (with the exception of those that make threats etc)
The law is the law . Should Ronald McDonald be charged with making terrorist threats? Or is he exempt from the law is states where mask laws are on the books?
 
Boxer said:
MOO he didn't anything illegal.

If a man showed up in black boots, a bucket of tar and a mop few would question he came to fix the roof. Same here.
If fixing roofs killed people by the dozens in seconds, yes they would all be terrified.
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Using your example, when the ex-fireman showed up at the Walmart with a gun strapped to his side, few would question he was going there to shoot the place up?
They both did the same thing. They were both within the law to do so.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Thank you for bringing this story to light.

While many heroic legally armed citizens are saving lives it rarely makes MSM national news.

I see this same type of heroism done often by other legally armed citizens because I search for local news articles across the country in all states instead of seeking out MSM national news sites where they are rarely ever mentioned.

I cant recall the state at the moment, but just in the last few days I read about another armed citizen who stopped three armed robbers in a convenient store. All three criminals were heavily armed, but it did not stop the good citizen from doing what he knew was right, and what had to be done to protect everyone inside.

Thank goodness this armed citizen stopped this horrid individual in his tracks too, and saved many lives.

I feel much more protected no matter where I go out publically if I see armed police officers there or an armed citizen carrying their weapon on their side. I try to stay away from any business that advertises they are a gun free zone.

Again thank you for linking this heroic story. All legally armed citizens who have stepped up to the plate, and saved lives deserves full recognition.

These are the individuals who did not have to become involved putting their own lives in jeopardy.

They all do it because they know it is the right thing to do in order to protect others.

Jmho
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I was just thinking the same thing. There are local stories of armed citizens preventing a crime or stopping one. But it never makes the national news. IMO, it is because it doesn't fit the narrative.
 
Rocky1 said:
Using your example, when the ex-fireman showed up at the Walmart with a gun strapped to his side, few would question he was going there to shoot the place up?
They both did the same thing. They were both within the law to do so.
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MOO big difference between carrying a normal sidearm and displaying an AR, body armor and a 100 rounds.

Sure he was legal, at least in the face of it. Found a way to terrorize people and get away with it.
 
SuziQ said:
I was just thinking the same thing. There are local stories of armed citizens preventing a crime or stopping one. But it never makes the national news. IMO, it is because it doesn't fit the narrative.
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Can you link to one of the stories that didn't make national news?
MOO it seems like I read about home owners, grannies and etc. successfully killing or driving off evil doers all the time.
 
Boxer said:
MOO big difference between carrying a normal sidearm and displaying an AR, body armor and a 100 rounds.

Sure he was legal, at least in the face of it. Found a way to terrorize people and get away with it.
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What's the difference?
Most 9mm sidearms hold between 17-20 rounds. You can put 4 clips... two in each of your front pockets without them even bulging, and with the clip in the pistol, you have 100 rounds, just like he did. You can change clips in under two seconds if you are fast.
The difference is the guy with the sidearm has more time to stalk his prey before people know what he's up to.
The other difference is that the public has a false perception that somehow sidearms are not as deadly.
 
Boxer said:
Can you link to one of the stories that didn't make national news?
MOO it seems like I read about home owners, grannies and etc. successfully killing or driving off evil doers all the time.
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With all due respect, how would someone link you to a story that never was a story?
 
Rocky1 said:
With all due respect, how would someone link you to a story that never was a story?
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Can you tell me where you got the information? MOO I thought you said that a lot of gun positive local stories never made national news.
 
Boxer said:
Can you tell me where you got the information? MOO I thought you said that a lot of gun positive local stories never made national news.
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I believe SuziQ said that.
 
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