MO - Police officer fatally shoots Vonderrick Myers in south St. Louis #2

[LambChop]

You're right on track as far as what some in the black community will have a problem with. It is also why I don't get the weakening of a position by insisting it was a sandwich instead of a gun. If I were part of the black community, the focus for me wouldn't be who shot at who first, but why was he even pursued in the first place. What crime did the officer have a reasonable suspicion was being broken when he saw them.

I would guess running from a police officer is a clear indication they had a reason to split. Further observation was that he may have had a gun on him. Police officers deal with this day in and day out. Not sure how well you can run with an ankle monitor on. Perhaps VM was out beyond his time limit. He bought the sandwich 20 minutes before so I doubt he still had the sandwich on him if he was now wearing a sweatshirt. Sounds as if he returned home and then went back out.

Here is a question. If you have an ankle monitor on and you have permission to go out and grab a sandwich with specific instructions you are to return home how do they monitor that. Does he call in and report he's home? He clearly did not set off any alarms leaving the house to go to the sandwich shop. So are they on their honor regarding distances they can move around in the neighborhood? And what is normal curfew? jmo

 

[dandy]

You're right on track as far as what some in the black community will have a problem with. It is also why I don't get the weakening of a position by insisting it was a sandwich instead of a gun. If I were part of the black community, the focus for me wouldn't be who shot at who first, but why was he even pursued in the first place. What crime did the officer have a reasonable suspicion was being broken when he saw them.

l/e in nyc & 5 boroughs can't stop & frisk anymore. hundreds of illegal guns were taken off the streets prior to this. it's a delicate balance between rights & public safety.

we'll never know how many lives l/e saved by taking those guns.

 

[katydid23]

You're right on track as far as what some in the black community will have a problem with. It is also why I don't get the weakening of a position by insisting it was a sandwich instead of a gun. If I were part of the black community, the focus for me wouldn't be who shot at who first, but why was he even pursued in the first place. What crime did the officer have a reasonable suspicion was being broken when he saw them.

He was not 'pursued' until they bolted and ran. The cop drove by them. He thought they looked suspicious. Vonderrick was wearing an ankle monitor and had a gun on him. So do you think he MIGHT have acted a bit suspiciously upon seeing the cop roll past and looking his way? I do.

The cop was doing his job. He thought they looked suspicious and THEY WERE hiding something. How can you blame him for picking up on the WRONGS and the crimes that VM was committing at the time the cop saw him? It was not because he was black, it was because he was acting like he was hiding something and then he cut and ran.

 

[DebinGA]

Here's video of the protest Sat. night near VM's shooting spot in the Shaw neighborhood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg6219kEsw0#t=72

Happy to report the foul-mouthed narrator Bassem Masri was arrested yesterday. LE left the Shaw scene to the protesters, to my astonishment and dismay. I believe there's a protester, off to the right, seen pointing a gun at a departing officer at 1:10 in the video. If it's not a gun, it looks enough like one to me to get that person justifiably killed.

 

[popsicle]

Staci D Kramer ‏@sdkstl 58m58 minutes ago
Dotson tells @KMOX #VonderritMyers lab results due Wednesday

 

[LambChop]

Here's video of the protest Sat. night near VM's shooting spot in the Shaw neighborhood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg6219kEsw0#t=72

Happy to report the foul-mouthed narrator Bassem Masri was arrested yesterday. LE left the Shaw scene to the protesters, to my astonishment and dismay. I believe there's a protester, off to the right, seen pointing a gun at a departing officer at 1:10 in the video.

It looks like a "finger" gun.

 

[reedus23]

I would guess running from a police officer is a clear indication they had a reason to split. Further observation was that he may have had a gun on him. Police officers deal with this day in and day out. Not sure how well you can run with an ankle monitor on. Perhaps VM was out beyond his time limit. He bought the sandwich 20 minutes before so I doubt he still had the sandwich on him if he was now wearing a sweatshirt. Sounds as if he returned home and then went back out.

Here is a question. If you have an ankle monitor on and you have permission to go out and grab a sandwich with specific instructions you are to return home how do they monitor that. Does he call in and report he's home? He clearly did not set off any alarms leaving the house to go to the sandwich shop. So are they on their honor regarding distances they can move around in the neighborhood? And what is normal curfew? jmo

Good questions and I don't know the answers. It seems to me the Judge could craft it however he/she sees fit. It seems to me the order in this case didn't allow for leaving the house at all to go get a sandwich.

What is interesting, is that based on the very little I know about the facts of this case (and I admit I haven't followed this one as closely), I don't think the officer had any grounds for stopping the three walking down the street. Or at least I haven't heard particularized facts that would lead to that reasonable suspicion that a crime was/was going to be committed. Just saying they looked suspicious isn't enough. What about them was suspicious? Walking? Evening hours? Being black? Did he recognize VM and know he wasn't allowed out? Seriously don't know. Assuming there was nothing else, the cop had no right to stop them. But by running, they arguably did give the officer those particularized facts leading to a reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed.

 

[katydid23]

The protestors say they want the wrong perceptions of them, that they are dangerous because of their skin color, to be corrected. But it is interesting to me that when screaming in the cops faces, they are not saying, ' don't profile us, we mean you no harm.' Instead they yell " We are coming for you and your families, you will never be safe" :waitasec:

 

[prayers4missing]

Here is a question. If you have an ankle monitor on and you have permission to go out and grab a sandwich with specific instructions you are to return home how do they monitor that. Does he call in and report he's home? He clearly did not set off any alarms leaving the house to go to the sandwich shop. So are they on their honor regarding distances they can move around in the neighborhood? And what is normal curfew? jmo

RSBM

Years ago, my ex was on house arrest. Every week he would have to give a copy of his work schedule to the house arrest company and his probation officer. He was only allowed out of the house an hour before his shift started up until an hour after he was off work. Any days he was not scheduled to work he was not allowed to leave the house. The monitoring system was set up through our home phone.

He was never at home! That's mainly because his boss was a very good friend of his and would say he was working hours he wasn't so that he could be "free".

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

Here's video of the protest Sat. night near VM's shooting spot in the Shaw neighborhood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg6219kEsw0#t=72

Happy to report the foul-mouthed narrator Bassem Masri was arrested yesterday. LE left the Shaw scene to the protesters, to my astonishment and dismay. I believe there's a protester, off to the right, seen pointing a gun at a departing officer at 1:10 in the video. If it's not a gun, it looks enough like one to me to get that person justifiably killed.

It's hard to tell with the glare from the vehicle lights, but that sure looks like it could be a gun to me. It looks metallic...NOT a "finger gun," as I think LC refers to it above...to me. But again, those vehicle lights make it hard to tell.

ETA: I've looked at it several times. That's a freakin' gun, IMO.

 

[reedus23]

l/e in nyc & 5 boroughs can't stop & frisk anymore. hundreds of illegal guns were taken off the streets prior to this. it's a delicate balance between rights & public safety.

we'll never know how many lives l/e saved by taking those guns.

Under the constitution they can. Obviously, NYC can enact policies/procedures more restrictive on LE because they tend to protect 4th amendment rights, not violate them. But I'm curious how/why NYC would do this?

 

[DebinGA]

It looks like a "finger" gun.

Not to me. It's bigger and darker than the hand holding it imo.

 

[popsicle]

I think the bullet fragment in the car matches the 9mm and GSR on VM. jmo

 

[popsicle]

I think they are recording. jmo

 

[reedus23]

He was not 'pursued' until they bolted and ran. The cop drove by them. He thought they looked suspicious. Vonderrick was wearing an ankle monitor and had a gun on him. So do you think he MIGHT have acted a bit suspiciously upon seeing the cop roll past and looking his way? I do.

The cop was doing his job. He thought they looked suspicious and THEY WERE hiding something. How can you blame him for picking up on the WRONGS and the crimes that VM was committing at the time the cop saw him? It was not because he was black, it was because he was acting like he was hiding something and then he cut and ran.

First, I initially stated I believe this will turn out to be a justified shooting and that's why I haven't paid as much attention to it. Having said that, I only posited where the community's best argument would come from. Having said that, to further the conversation:

First, hindsight doesn't matter. What articulable, particularized facts did the officer see related specifically to VM that gave him a reasonable suspicion that a crime was or was going to be committed? Did he see the ankle monitor and if so did he know what the terms of it's use were? Doubtful unless he was familiar with not only VM but VM's case. Did he see the gun before initiating the stop? Haven't heard that. They looked suspicious is NOT enough. Being in a high crime area (which some in the Shaw area would dispute) is not enough in and of itself. Obviously, being black isn't enough. Being a teen isn't enough.

Running before actually being stopped I think ultimately gives the reasonable suspicion. Had the cop tried to actually stop them first and then he bolted, might need more info but since he bolted before an actual stop took place, I think that's enough. All just MOO.

 

[prayers4missing]

Agreed Popsicle, and sadly people are still not going to believe it. For the love, there are still people screaming he was unarmed, only carrying a sandwich!!

 

[katydid23]

I would guess running from a police officer is a clear indication they had a reason to split. Further observation was that he may have had a gun on him. Police officers deal with this day in and day out. Not sure how well you can run with an ankle monitor on. Perhaps VM was out beyond his time limit. He bought the sandwich 20 minutes before so I doubt he still had the sandwich on him if he was now wearing a sweatshirt. Sounds as if he returned home and then went back out.

Here is a question. If you have an ankle monitor on and you have permission to go out and grab a sandwich with specific instructions you are to return home how do they monitor that. Does he call in and report he's home? He clearly did not set off any alarms leaving the house to go to the sandwich shop. So are they on their honor regarding distances they can move around in the neighborhood? And what is normal curfew? jmo

I can't find it now, just looked. But VM's attorney answered some of those questions. He said that VM was [paraphrasing] : 'allowed to go out of the house for school, work, and meetings with his attorney and the security bracelet company. '

As far as I know, he was doing NONE of the above when he was out buying a sandwich w/his crew. Armed.

My friends son was under house arrest for a DUI and resisting arrest. He had to give the security company his work schedule and school schedule. He was even called at work occasionally to verify his presence. If he was not home by a certain time an alarm would go off and LE was allowed to go to his home and wait and arrest him if need be. Plus there is usually a GPS device on there so they can tell if u are where u are supposed to be.

eta: did VM even go to work or school?

 

[LambChop]

Not to me. It's bigger and darker than the hand holding it imo.

Okay, I see it. It's like a flash on metal as he brings his hand up. Could it be a small gun as his had seems to cover the whole thing while his arm is extended. A police car is right there so whatever he had they must not think it was a gun.

 

[prayers4missing]

From what I think I heard he was doing online high school.

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

It's hard to tell with the glare from the vehicle lights, but that sure looks like it could be a gun to me. It looks metallic...NOT a "finger gun," as I think LC refers to it above...to me. But again, those vehicle lights make it hard to tell.

ETA: I've looked at it several times. That's a freakin' gun, IMO.

I think if you look a few seconds before 1:10 you'll see the person with the "gun" walk in front of the camera holding something in front of him. I think that's the object that looks like the "gun" later on. I don't know what it is but I don't think he would hold the gun out in front of him like that while the officer is still looking that way. A microphone?