MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[STANDREID]

Are there any mycologists here? Is that apparent mold on the body a type that grows on flesh that has frozen and thawed? I have seen something similar on another body that was found in an enclosed area at about the same time of year and the same approximate climate. Maybe such knowledge could help in determining the time of death.

 

[Roselvr]

I've sent an e-mail to the St. Louis County Med. Examiners' Office, Dr/Rn Psara; This is what I've sent. Hopefully it's "to the point" and doesn't make me sound like a complete idiot. LOL JMO

Hello Dr. Psara, My name Is Jen____,
I look up missing persons/ unidentified persons on a volunteer basis. I'd like to submit a potential match to your Unidentified Girl from 1983, please? I don't know the "formal process" of it all, so please forgive me. And also forgive the intrusion if this isn't your professional e-mail address.
If you wouldn't mind looking up Telethia Good MP#9693 ?
She looks like a great match not only in skin tone, height and weight, but also geographically.
I look forward to hearing from you soon,
Thanks for the understanding,
Sincerely,
Jen

They may ask how you know about the skin tone. Normally I give the links to their NamUs profile too. You may want to send another with the newest info about Maury Travis to "suggest" they see if his DNA is on her or the rope if they still have it. Chances are that they do not. We know the yellow sweater was lost.

Hopefully you hear back pretty quick.

 

[jenstar]

They may ask how you know about the skin tone. Normally I give the links to their NamUs profile too. You may want to send another with the newest info about Maury Travis to "suggest" they see if his DNA is on her or the rope if they still have it. Chances are that they do not. We know the yellow sweater was lost.

Hopefully you hear back pretty quick.

Actually, most of the info in NamUs is incorrect. The e-mail I'd sent to Psara was returned to my inbox this morning, so I called the ME's office. They've done some "Departmental Shifting" and since this case was entered, new people are in charge of it. The ME's office I called told me it was a "city case" and referred me to the right Detective's office; although, Tom Carroll isn't in charge of the case either. So I gave all the information to be forwarded to the Detective in charge. The nice young man has the websites for NamUs and Case Numbers for comparison. They seemed really eager to help, and he even recalled the UID case from memory. I DID bring up the skin tone comparison in the photos and told him they were listed in the case. He did ask what organization I was with, and I told him it was on a volunteer basis. I also gave him some backstory on Telethia (MP) that I'd read in an article. So hopefully this will all work out for a comparison. I don't want to get my hopes too high. But if they need to contact me they have all my info. I'll let you know what I hear back asap.

 

[jenstar]

Are there any mycologists here? Is that apparent mold on the body a type that grows on flesh that has frozen and thawed? I have seen something similar on another body that was found in an enclosed area at about the same time of year and the same approximate climate. Maybe such knowledge could help in determining the time of death.

We might be able to find one in the Verified Member's forum. JMO

 

[jenstar]

Are there any mycologists here? Is that apparent mold on the body a type that grows on flesh that has frozen and thawed? I have seen something similar on another body that was found in an enclosed area at about the same time of year and the same approximate climate. Maybe such knowledge could help in determining the time of death.

Standreid,
The more I think about it, the place where the girl was found was also most likely the scene of the crime. If you look at the PM photos; of how she's laying face down, there's dirt all over her white sweater on the elbows, from where she'd been almost propped into a corner of the floor, on her back, in a sitting up position. But her hands and elbows were propping her up. She'd been sexually assaulted,killed (probably by Blunt Trauma), laid face down, then decapitated. Her body is still almost in the propped, knees bent position even while face down. Which tells me that he killed her (while she was on her back), then waited at least two hours to decapitate her. If she were face up and alive while decapitated, the blood would be everywhere. If she were decapitated face up while deceased, there would be a stain running down the back of her shirt. I can see where you'd see being frozen as a possibility too. The position of the body if it were face up could be consistent with being in a freezer. But, it'd be awful hard to decapitate someone manually while frozen. Without the head or weapons/tools used, it's hard to determine anything for sure, or rule out theories. I'm not a ME so I can't tell "exactly" how it all happened, it's just my observations and best guess. JMO

 

[Roselvr]

If we're talking about the white powder on her legs; I thought it was something like lime or dry cement.

LE didn't think she was decapitated there because there is no blood; yet there was blood on her sweater.
What's eerie about Telethia is she's wearing yellow in the NamUs photo of her. The sweater on our little girl is light yellow not white.

 

[jenstar]

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/3199My apologies about the sweater. I looked in the article and it did say yellow sweater. I misspoke. @Roselvr, I also thought it was dry cement. But I'm not sure that a body would profusely bleed if the blood has congealed for a long period of time. We, never know in these situations either way. JMO

 

[Roselvr]

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/3199My apologies about the sweater. I looked in the article and it did say yellow sweater. I misspoke. @Roselvr, I also thought it was dry cement. But I'm not sure that a body would profusely bleed if the blood has congealed for a long period of time. We, never know in these situations either way. JMO

I've also thought the sweater was white/off white because it does not look yellow in any photos I've seen. Its too bad that it was lost

 

[jenstar]

I've also thought the sweater was white/off white because it does not look yellow in any photos I've seen. Its too bad that it was lost

I'm surprised that LE just let it go so easily. It probably was the most substantial piece of evidence they had in the case. Wouldn't the psychic be charged with tampering if she didn't return it? "Oops! Must have been lost in the mail." What a lame excuse. That situation should have been handled very differently.JMO

 

[Roselvr]

I'm surprised that LE just let it go so easily. It probably was the most substantial piece of evidence they had in the case. Wouldn't the psychic be charged with tampering if she didn't return it? "Oops! Must have been lost in the mail." What a lame excuse. That situation should have been handled very differently.JMO

You would think they would be charged with something.

 

[STANDREID]

Are there any mycologists here? Is that apparent mold on the body a type that grows on flesh that has frozen and thawed? I have seen something similar on another body that was found in an enclosed area at about the same time of year and the same approximate climate. Maybe such knowledge could help in determining the time of death.

I just reread about this case in a book I have and it says that the mold was tested and incubated in as close to the same conditions as they could. That's where they came up with the 5 day estimate as to when the murder occurred. It didn't name the species of mold or tell if it's common on bodies in this type of circumstance.

 

[carbuff]

You would think they would be charged with something.

If LE gave it to them, there's probably no crime committed. Even if you could prove negligence, that would be a civil matter, not a criminal one.

 

[SilentSleuth]

Hi there!

I'm a longtime lurker, but this my first post! So excuse me if I'm not correct about something! :newhere:

This unidentified skull of a young girl in the age range of our Jane Doe (10-14) looked very interesting, as very little is known as to how long she was deceased for. NamUs says five years, but that is an estimation. To be honest, I don't really know how accurate NamUs is!

This is quoted from NCMEC:

"The skull of an unidentified black female was found at a Coroner’s Office in Louisiana during 2007. It is undetermined where and when the remains were initially discovered by authorities."

NameUs: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/2784
NCMEC: http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMU/1184275/1#poster

Just curious, does a thread exist for Jane Doe 2007? Or any information on her?

Locating this young girl's head could seriously advance this case along. I feel so terribly for her.

 

[Medea2]

the place where the girl was found was also most likely the scene of the crime

From all I remember from the police work and all the analysis, it was ruled it wasn't the crime scene, just the dumping site. And going there with the rope, knife, girl, then leaving with most of her clothes, the head, etc. seems very risky and complicated. And people could have showed up there at any time, as the guys who found the body did; it was an open space. She was probably killed somewhere were the killer had some time and secrecy.

 

[Medea2]

the girl looks like she may have been underfed and I haven't seen that noted before

from the medical records, she was on the contrary well fed and there was no indication of previous trauma or abuses. it is one of the weird aspect of the crime, one could think she was abused for a long time but it didn't seem so.

 

[Roselvr]

From all I remember from the police work and all the analysis, it was ruled it wasn't the crime scene, just the dumping site. And going there with the rope, knife, girl, then leaving with most of her clothes, the head, etc. seems very risky and complicated. And people could have showed up there at any time, as the guys who found the body did; it was an open space. She was probably killed somewhere were the killer had some time and secrecy.

I agree; she was not killed there as there is no blood in the photos I have. If she was killed there; there would be a ton of blood all over

 

[Ms Suzanne]

New article out this morning from STL.com

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_36de5a5c-b615-5292-b5aa-abb99a888a6c.html

"DNA testing confirmed the profile St. Louis experts already had, but the mineral tests, or stable isotope analysis, revealed the child probably spent most of, if not all of, her life in one of 10 southeastern states: Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Texas, Tennessee and the Carolinas."

May I please ask has any new leads come from this isotope analysis testing?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

It says she had not eaten for about 8 hours. About 8 or so hours away from St Louis Missouri is near Marietta or Atlanta Georgia.That's one of the place the isotope analysis said she could have come from.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Well, just so you guys don't have to scour too hard. I've went through the private police databases of the following states; (just in case the person wasn't entered into NamUs.) NJ, CT, VA, Pa, NC. The only PM was Toya Hill. Unless..and this is a BIG leap..This girl was missing WAY before her demise. I actually couldn't believe I got a "hit" when I expanded NamUs' Parameters. Everything seems to be "in range" considering date missing vs age too. Check it out and see what you think: https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/9693/0/

Have you heard back from them about Telethia Good? She does sound like a good match.

 

[SilentSleuth]

It says she had not eaten for about 8 hours. About 8 or so hours away from St Louis Missouri is near Marietta or Atlanta Georgia.That's one of the place the isotope analysis said she could have come from.

She might not have eaten right before she got killed, though that's a very interesting thought. I'd also look for places 9-11 hours away as well.

I looked in Georgia NamUs cases for a girl that age, there's nothing fitting the time-frame.